OT: Brazil plane crash

[DerHntr]

Engineering folks: how the hell does that plane just fall out off the damn sky like that? I expect them to have momentum going one direction or the other. It was just dropping like a rock.

Here are a couple of the videos. If you don’t have X, it’s basically on all the major network websites.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Stall

 

[pseudonym]

It appears to be a flat spin, one of the hardest spins to recover from.

 

[DerHntr]

There are so many videos online. It must have been falling for a while for that many people to notice. The videos of the crash site are rough with a body on the ground, fire, parts everywhere, house on fire, etc.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

There are so many videos online. It must have been falling for a while for that many people to notice. The videos of the crash site are rough with a body on the ground, fire, parts everywhere, house on fire, etc.

Lack of qualified pilots is real. Not so much in the US, but it’s out there.

 

[She Mate Me]

Nevermind.

Tragic. Wonder if it was taking off or landing.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Engineering folks: how the hell does that plane just fall out off the damn sky like that? I expect them to have momentum going one direction or the other. It was just dropping like a rock.

Paging @Captain Ron

 

[WrapItDog]

Sources indicate that an active icing warning had been issued for altitutdes between 12,000-24,000 feet, the aircraft appeared to behave abnormally while flying at 17,000 feet. Vertical speed fluctuated between 8,000 and 24,000 feet per minute. The engines were running at the time, though they seemed to have been struggling or reduced to idle.

 

[Dawgbite]

That is called a stall. When a plane slows enough that the airflow over the top of the wings no longer produces lift, the plane stalls. Since the wings are not exactly identical, one wing stalls before the other. That wing will drop first often producing a spin.

 

[DerHntr]

They said it dropped 17k feet in one minute. 17 indeed.

 

[GloryDawg]

Nevermind.

Tragic. Wonder if it was taking off or landing.

It was on the back end of a 400 mile trip. I heard since there was a hugh explosion iwhen it hit it had fuel.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Looks like it was lucky for the neighborhood that it crashed in.
Sort of came straight down, rather than like it was coming in for a landing.
Could have hit many more houses, etc.

 

[RotorHead]

That is called a stall. When a plane slows enough that the airflow over the top of the wings no longer produces lift, the plane stalls. Since the wings are not exactly identical, one wing stalls before the other. That wing will drop first often producing a spin.

Um. The wings are identical, otherwise they wouldn’t produce lift at the same rate/location/timing and you’d get off the ground in a bad spot. What you’re describing sounds like critical engine failure with a sudden yaw towards the critical engine based off the (now sole) moment existing on the airframe created by the operative engine.
admittedly, I haven’t watched any of the videos and don’t have X, just adding to a theory I suppose.

 

[ETK99]

It appears to be a flat spin, one of the hardest spins to recover from.

 

[Bulldog from Birth]

Sources indicate that an active icing warning had been issued for altitutdes between 12,000-24,000 feet, the aircraft appeared to behave abnormally while flying at 17,000 feet. Vertical speed fluctuated between 8,000 and 24,000 feet per minute. The engines were running at the time, though they seemed to have been struggling or reduced to idle.

One common sequence for a stall is this. The pitot tube that measures speed ices up or fails. It tells the pilot that he has a lower speed than he actually does in reality. But the computer gives him a stall warning or stall emergency based on that false low speed measurement. This causes the pilot to panic. The correction to a stall is to gain speed. You do this by pointing the nose down to use gravity to gain speed. But this is counter-intuitive to human nature which tells you that you need to gain altitude if you are in a stall and falling. It’s a big part of flight school to rewire your brain against human nature. But sometimes in a panic, pilots forget their training and pull up in a stall or in what they think is a stall, thereby creating a real stall.

 

[DerHntr]

Um. The wings are identical, otherwise they wouldn’t produce lift at the same rate/location/timing and you’d get off the ground in a bad spot. What you’re describing sounds like critical engine failure with a sudden yaw towards the critical engine based off the (now sole) moment existing on the airframe created by the operative engine.
admittedly, I haven’t watched any of the videos and don’t have X, just adding to a theory I suppose.

here’s a YouTube link with a bunch of the footage:

 

[Ludus24]

Flat spin. ATR's perform terribly in icing conditions (every aircraft does to differing degrees). It's likely ice buildup caused one wing to stall, or the tail which is basically non recoverable at that point.

 

[RotorHead]

That definitely looks like an aircraft that had lost aerodynamic capability….i.e….icing. Critical engine failure would have resulted in a more violent yaw than evident in the video

 

[horshack.sixpack]

It appears to be a flat spin, one of the hardest spins to recover from.

Counter measure in pilot training for a flat spin: none. Anyone who gets out of that is just lucky.

 

[POTUS]

My thoughts turn to Kobe Bryant in these situations. To be in a situation like that with your child would be worst case scenario by a country mile.

 

[Shmuley]

Sources indicate that an active icing warning had been issued for altitutdes between 12,000-24,000 feet, the aircraft appeared to behave abnormally while flying at 17,000 feet. Vertical speed fluctuated between 8,000 and 24,000 feet per minute. The engines were running at the time, though they seemed to have been struggling or reduced to idle.

I have to remind myself that early august in the southern hemisphere is “winter.”

 

[The Peeper]

Um. The wings are identical, otherwise they wouldn’t produce lift at the same rate/location/timing and you’d get off the ground in a bad spot. What you’re describing sounds like critical engine failure with a sudden yaw towards the critical engine based off the (now sole) moment existing on the airframe created by the operative engine.
admittedly, I haven’t watched any of the videos and don’t have X, just adding to a theory I suppose.

Um, he means with ice on them, no they aren't identical depending on amount of ice build up on them so lift is different

 

[The Peeper]

That definitely looks like an aircraft that had lost aerodynamic capability….i.e….icing. Critical engine failure would have resulted in a more violent yaw than evident in the video

I've only heard the word YAW used by one other person and it was this dude.
"Yaw yaw yaw yaw yaw, yaw, yaw yaw foo'ball"