OT: College Place UMC closing
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I don’t know about College Place, but I really think Covid has affected most churches‘ attendance. Some just got out of the habit of going to church.
So sorry to see this. If you look at the landscape of churches around the U.S.A. yes covid had a tremendous effect. People staying home and got used to staying home and when the churches reopened for whatever reason they did not return. Churches cannot pay the bills on empty congregations, no adults to be with the youth, pastors need to be supported and if noone is paying tithes, well just like everything else like your power bills, cable bills if you do not pay them they will be cut off. Same thing here churches cannot run on empty bank accounts. Get up on Sunday morning around 8 a.m. and go to your local church and look at the traffic flow, it is almost like ghost towns for a short period of time. People are staying home. So so sad. But when someone needs prayer for a family member the first ones they look to is a church for prayers and support, then when a loved one passes they look to a church for a funeral service. There are still a lot of churches who still have their doors open to anyone who wants to attend and hopefully they wll continue to stay open because the world we live in today we need churches .
I have worked in churches for 24 years. The decline is not all directly related to Covid. It just seemed to magnify the issues in some places. The church I currently work at has been opened back for full in person since July of 2020. It was a slow return but are now back to about 70% of what we were before covid.
The real issues of church decline are part fault of the church and part fault of society. The world has so many more options on Sunday mornings anymore from businesses being open the same hours as other days of the week (when I was much younger in late 70's and early 80's, many places didnt open until 1:00p.m. if at all). You also have sports for youth and children all the time. Sunday is like any other day anymore and has been for a while now.
The fault of the church is that it has not done much to change with the times. I work in "traditional" type churches and they feel like they shouldnt change, nor want to change, and therefore we see less and less younger families. One church I started working in was so far in the past, that they had no properly functioning wifi at all. Churches need to know that they reach people more when they try to meet them where they are. People are not just coming to churches anymore.
The other issues is that there are so many community or "pop-up" churches anymore that we have basically divided attendance at alot of older churches by 3 at least. Many people are going to those whether it be because they enjoy it more, it is more relevant to them, or it is a place their kids WANT to go to.
Covid didnt help anything but churches were hurting before that and they turned a blind eye to the issue and want to sometimes blame the people for not coming and be mad at them. That will NEVER bring anyone in. We have to meet people where they are anymore and reach them in ways that are relevant. Unfortunately we dont.
The real issues of church decline are part fault of the church and part fault of society. The world has so many more options on Sunday mornings anymore from businesses being open the same hours as other days of the week (when I was much younger in late 70's and early 80's, many places didnt open until 1:00p.m. if at all). You also have sports for youth and children all the time. Sunday is like any other day anymore and has been for a while now.
The fault of the church is that it has not done much to change with the times. I work in "traditional" type churches and they feel like they shouldnt change, nor want to change, and therefore we see less and less younger families. One church I started working in was so far in the past, that they had no properly functioning wifi at all. Churches need to know that they reach people more when they try to meet them where they are. People are not just coming to churches anymore.
The other issues is that there are so many community or "pop-up" churches anymore that we have basically divided attendance at alot of older churches by 3 at least. Many people are going to those whether it be because they enjoy it more, it is more relevant to them, or it is a place their kids WANT to go to.
Covid didnt help anything but churches were hurting before that and they turned a blind eye to the issue and want to sometimes blame the people for not coming and be mad at them. That will NEVER bring anyone in. We have to meet people where they are anymore and reach them in ways that are relevant. Unfortunately we dont.
That, unfortunately, is true for some UMC churches. Some churches have already split off and a major schism is expected. I’m not sure where to go now.
Sir, you are on target! One of the members of our church said some lady came and told a church official she was $1600.00 behind on rent. Our church gave her $500.00 which is the largest amount our church gives out to one person, so I'm told. The person who told us this said she would have given the lady the whole amount if it were in her power. But, you are right, we need to keep those church doors open.
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Everything you said is true. The need to adapt with WIFI, offering contempary services for the younger people, in the spring have a church wide picnic with everyone bringing a dish, offering weekend events for younger children and older children. Most of the younger generation is different and yes churches have to adapt to the times. You can still offer Good Christian events especially for younger children like childrens choir. The faces of parents and grandparents are priceless when they see their child or grandchild participating in a childrens choir. The church I attend recognized years ago that you had to change with the times and believe it or not the participation and the number of people attending our church has grown. The hardest thing for a lot of the older churches with a lot of the older members is for them to accept change, but like in life change is inevitable and I know you can have change and still honor God.
I would suggest visiting different places and see what it is like. Then ask to meet the minister and ask specific questions that you want to know. If his/her answers dont match up with what you personally believe or you cant agree with their pint of view or interpretation, then go elsewhere. Find a place that fits you but make sure it is also a place you fit.
As for UMC churches, yes it is very true and while working for past 24 years in ministry, they have all but one been in UMC churches. Currently the UMC is in a hard place. Many of the leaders of some churches are all about themselves and not about the UMC as a whole. Specifically, when dealing with homosexuality, the Methodist Church recently had a meeting of world leaders and had a vote as to how it wanted to move forward. Some wanted the UMC to be more welcoming and open, others wanted more stringent rules against it. There were many that said if rules were not more stringent, they would break away from the UMC and form own denomination within, much like Presbyterians did. However, they were going to do that anyway because rules were made more stringent and those same churches said they were breaking away anyway. I know one here in midlands that has been fairly large that is doing this ultimately because they no longer want to pay apportionments to the conference which helps numerous organizations such as Epworth Childrens Home and Universities in Africa as well as numerous others. Its a shame that they will use anger about issues to get out of what they are called to do, only so they as a church can have more money. That is the real reason, but they used homosexuality as a reason. It backfired when things went the way they said they wanted so now they are looking for new way out or even supporting another vote to see if it will go the other way this time.
UMC are not alone in this as Baptists, Presbyterians, Episcopal and more are becoming less about the gospel and more about politics. I teach the Bible in such a way as I feel it was intended to when written. In doing so, I have had people within my own church attack me by saying I am wrong and have no witness anymore. I am ok with that. However, I am not ok with the way those same people run everyone away from the church with their interpretations.
I don't know the exact reasons that College Place is closing but I'm sure it's for the reasons many have discussed here. As a lifelong Methodist that grew up in a small but vibrant UMC church it breaks my heart to see all of this happening. The UMC has been taken over by politics and a liberal idealogy that I and others completely disagree with. We have been a member of a Methodist church in Richland county for over 20 years, since we moved here, but are now looking to go elsewhere. During Covid our church got a new pastor and associate pastor and we have found out that they are both liberals, one obviously to the extreme. The associate pastor's FB is full of political crap, including talking about how AOC is a wonderful politician and person and other references in support of all the far left causes, BLM, etc. I realize it is his personal page, but it reflects on what is in his heart. We will not be "lectured" by leftists that beleive in transgender teaching of our kids, open borders, abortion, on and on, things we feel disagree with biblical teachings. I don't care what people do in private or with their own lives, but politics and religion do not mix. Yet the UMC has chosen to make political wokeness the mainstay of their church.
I agree with reference to the UMC, but there are many churches that still do. We are looking at moving out of the UMC now for this exact reason.
I agree you have to change with the times, and many UMC churches have. But you can't change it to a far left organization and expect everybody to be ok with that. The UMC has made a calculated decision that they can survive with a far-left ideology so they will have to live with that.
We are looking to leave the UMC as well, it is hard leaving a church that your kids grew up in and that you once loved. But they left us, we didn't leave them.
It is a hard to decision, whether to stay and fight or run. Leaving is one way to fight in our opinion and as hard as it is, we just can't attend a church and listen to an associate pastor talk about the Bible, yet you can go to his FB page and see just the opposite. But I agree with your discussion, we need more like you willing to stand up in this way
I think it should be noted that ALL Methodist Churches are not far left leaning. In fact the recent vote was way more far right leaning as to what the church believed and wanted to institute. If an individual Methodist Church or pastor themselves is far left, then that is their choice but not all are that way. The church I am currently working at was to be assigned a very, very far left minister but he chose to resign before even coming here. Personally I think a majority are not far left or far right, those just happen to be the loudest. Probably 80% on those in the Methodist Church are in the middle and would rather go with their church namesake of "United" rather than what it is becoming which is divided. Trust me, if you go elsewhere looking to avoid far left, you will find them but be careful because those dont fall in line with the Gospel of Christ either. Far left seems to "accepting and loving" in peoples eyes and Far Right seems to "angry" and that is no better. Just find a church that is Christ centered. they are out there and most likely they are the ones you dont hear about because they choose not to pitch a fit about how right they are and wrong others are.
My main point here is to not lump all Methodist Churches into the same category because they are still different. Just like all Baptist Churches are not like that one in Kentucky that protests military funerals and the like. If you paint everything with a broad brush, you will never find peace anywhere.
My main point here is to not lump all Methodist Churches into the same category because they are still different. Just like all Baptist Churches are not like that one in Kentucky that protests military funerals and the like. If you paint everything with a broad brush, you will never find peace anywhere.
I never said it was just about homosexuality, but what I was saying is that the primary issue they are voting on is homosexuality. As for those that dont believe in the other things you mentioned, I have not met any that are that far out there. I truly hope it is not a generalization with no grounds of merit that you say that because that would be wrong on so many levels.
Our church was started almost 60 years ago because the synod was proposing doctrine that was not in line with what was in the Bible. This synod was a large major synod. It wasn't because someone was upset over the color of the carpet, but because the true Gospel was being left behind for more contemporary thinking. The Bible provided the answers -
God tells us through the apostle Paul that you can't have one side of the church believing one thing, and the other another (1 Corth. 1:10):
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
God warns us and provides direction through Paul in Romans 16:17-18:
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them (better translation is make note of) which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Unfortunately, there are many in churches, as one of our former pastors put it, who are asleep in the pews. If you are looking for a church to attend please PM me.
Glad to hear you say that because my UMC hasn’t shown signs of going left. UMC is not as far right as Baptist for sure
One more important thing to think about in regards to churches. The former guitar player for the Band Korn, Brain Welch, left the band when he became a Christian and started a new band. In one of his songs about the church he makes a very strong statement about the church universal.
"Why are you behind those walls hiding while the world outside is dying?" The church is not, and never was intended to be the building. Church is what we do outside of it and making a difference in the world.
The Bible speaks about this where churches are not staying true to the word and are preaching false doctrines. Same sex marriage, homosexuality are just two of the false doctrines that some of these churches are trying to force on their members. Well the members do not want these issues like these and CRT being taught to them or their children so they go somewhere else. Now the church is dead. Maybe it can be reborn with preaching the true word of God. I see this all across the United States where churches are closing for these main reasons and members are not putting up with it. There are a lot of good churches in all denominations who still preach the word of God. Large, medium and small churches that go by the word of God and preach his word.
There was a UMC that closed recently in a neighborhood near where I lived while growing up. That church was a very vibrant church at one time, it's just sad to see that.
Part of this could be that the Eau Claire area has experienced a shift in demographics.
It was half black and half white when I went to Eau Claire HS and graduated in 1968. How has it changed?
Father in law is a pastor at a Baptist church, has been for many years. At one time, they had a large congregation and a school. They probably have 10-15 people every week, and I'd bet the average age is 70-75. He often comes out of pocket for utilities, he cuts the grass, does routine maintenance. I've asked him why he continues to do it and he told me he told the Lord he would preach and lead until he tells him not to anymore and the Lord hasn't told him not to yet. That church will be non-existent in 20 years. My FIL is a good man, a saint.
Your FIL is one of a kind. I have an old friend the same age as me, 77, and he has a son that is a pastor in Colorado and he says his son needs help to properly run the church. The average age of my church, First United Methodist of Marion, NC is old. We have some young people but not a whole lot.