OT: Corruption in MS Updated

Status
Not open for further replies.

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,075
5,076
113
Interesting read. I personally like that the gov didn't read any "code books" to see what they could legally do. He was just looking for the same kind of help for his "indigent child" great-nephew that any other taxpayer would get; you know calls from the MDHS director. Also, some of them are turning to help prosecution and save themselves. This promises to get uglier.

https://mississippitoday.org/2022/04/18/phil-bryant-troubled-nephew-welfare-scandal/
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,235
2,465
113
Interesting read. I personally like that the gov didn't read any "code books" to see what they could legally do. He was just looking for the same kind of help for his "indigent child" great-nephew that any other taxpayer would get; you know calls from the MDHS director. Also, some of them are turning to help prosecution and save themselves. This promises to get uglier.

https://mississippitoday.org/2022/04/18/phil-bryant-troubled-nephew-welfare-scandal/

I bet every government official and bureaucrat in Mississippi at every level is reading that and is in shock that anybody thinks that rises to the level of being newsworthy. And in fairness, it is a very human response to do favors for people and most of the time it's not improper, even for government officials. But it is amazing some of the things that government officials/bureaucrats rationalize. Talked to a county official that got in criminal trouble a long time ago for providing and installing culverts on private land for friends/donors. His defense was that they were county residents and that was just a product/service he would do for anybody that asked, it's just that the only people that asked happened to be friends/donors. And I think he was being somewhat honest about his response. He probably would have tried to do it for anybody that asked until it became so widespread as to be unmanageable. Same thing with government officials that hand out a job to someone that is imminently unqualified. They don't view that as misappropriating government money for their own use just because they are essentially giving it to someone else. Just doing a favor for a friend not spending an extra $40k to $60k of taxpayer money to earn a favor to trade on later.
 

xxxWalkTheDawg

New member
Oct 21, 2005
4,262
0
0
Interesting read. I personally like that the gov didn't read any "code books" to see what they could legally do. He was just looking for the same kind of help for his "indigent child" great-nephew that any other taxpayer would get; you know calls from the MDHS director. Also, some of them are turning to help prosecution and save themselves. This promises to get uglier.

https://mississippitoday.org/2022/04/18/phil-bryant-troubled-nephew-welfare-scandal/

quote from article:

“While Gov. Phil Bryant set policies making it harder for welfare dollars to meet the actual needs of poor Mississippians,”

im sorry… but is that completely, verifiably, absolutely true?? Because if it’s not. The subsequent article is tainted because of a politically motivated headline. Every word may be true… but the motivations of the author is set and the doubts follow.

how hard is it to lay politics at the door and do a job as a journalist?? Is it really that difficult??? That you HAVE to make bias so obvious that you are a glorified opinion writer?
 

dudehead

Active member
Jul 9, 2006
1,313
367
83
quote from article:

“While Gov. Phil Bryant set policies making it harder for welfare dollars to meet the actual needs of poor Mississippians,”

im sorry… but is that completely, verifiably, absolutely true?? Because if it’s not. The subsequent article is tainted because of a politically motivated headline. Every word may be true… but the motivations of the author is set and the doubts follow.

how hard is it to lay politics at the door and do a job as a journalist?? Is it really that difficult??? That you HAVE to make bias so obvious that you are a glorified opinion writer?

Could Bryant's opposition to Medicaid expansion be described as setting "policies making it harder for welfare dollars to meet the actual needs of poor Mississippians"?
 

IBleedMaroonDawg

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2007
23,177
7,202
113
LOL

I left Mississippi in 2007. Good to see some things never change. Tthere's nothing like the good old boy network in Mississippi

Now there's corruption in the every state government and it's really not different in other small states (population wise). It's a shame you guys have this as your leading story when you have so many things else to do.
 

xxxWalkTheDawg

New member
Oct 21, 2005
4,262
0
0
Could Bryant's opposition to Medicaid expansion be described as setting "policies making it harder for welfare dollars to meet the actual needs of poor Mississippians"?

but that’s not “welfare” dollars. That’s Temporary federal Medicaid funding. And that’s just expansion. Nothing about putting barriers to current funding.
 
Last edited:

ronpolk

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
8,125
2,617
113
quote from article:

“While Gov. Phil Bryant set policies making it harder for welfare dollars to meet the actual needs of poor Mississippians,”

im sorry… but is that completely, verifiably, absolutely true?? Because if it’s not. The subsequent article is tainted because of a politically motivated headline. Every word may be true… but the motivations of the author is set and the doubts follow.

how hard is it to lay politics at the door and do a job as a journalist?? Is it really that difficult??? That you HAVE to make bias so obvious that you are a glorified opinion writer?

After reading that article, this is your takeaway?

I get the point your making and agree that people should try to keep their politics out of an article like this but that’s not realistic anymore, everything is political. I just think it’s a mistake to dismiss the entire article because you may have a problem with a phrase.
 

ronpolk

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
8,125
2,617
113
quote from article:

“While Gov. Phil Bryant set policies making it harder for welfare dollars to meet the actual needs of poor Mississippians,”

im sorry… but is that completely, verifiably, absolutely true?? Because if it’s not. The subsequent article is tainted because of a politically motivated headline. Every word may be true… but the motivations of the author is set and the doubts follow.

how hard is it to lay politics at the door and do a job as a journalist?? Is it really that difficult??? That you HAVE to make bias so obvious that you are a glorified opinion writer?

Reading the article now… below is from the article:

In fact, Bryant previously signed and publicly lauded a new law that requires applicants and recipients of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families to take drug screenings and tests or face rejection from the program. The policy became a significant barrier to eligibility, even for people who don’t abuse substances, because applicants must find transportation to the testing clinic.

I would say this is the barrier she is talking about. Bryant would require people with no history of drug abuse to take drug test in order to receive the funds, all while these same funds paid for others to go to drug rehab.
 

rynodawg

Active member
May 29, 2007
1,134
391
83
The Medicaid is not welfare funding, this article though references eligibility policies that cutoff direct child care payments for individuals,, instead using funds for non-profits that did not have any accountability and were effectively stolen.

The thing that baffles me is that John Davis (MDHS director) is facing both jail time and bankruptcy and by all accounts did not take a dime of personal profit in all this mess. He threw away a 30+ year state retirement because he wanted to feel like he was “friends” with the governor, then promptly got thrown under the bus. I just can’t imagine risking all of that as a favor to any sorry *** politician, no matter who they are.
 

xxxWalkTheDawg

New member
Oct 21, 2005
4,262
0
0
Reading the article now… below is from the article:

In fact, Bryant previously signed and publicly lauded a new law that requires applicants and recipients of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families to take drug screenings and tests or face rejection from the program. The policy became a significant barrier to eligibility, even for people who don’t abuse substances, because applicants must find transportation to the testing clinic.

I would say this is the barrier she is talking about. Bryant would require people with no history of drug abuse to take drug test in order to receive the funds, all while these same funds paid for others to go to drug rehab.

if that’s it… that’s an incredible reach. How do these same people get to medical appointments? Grocery stores? Relatives homes? If people are that destitute… why is the columnist not apoplectic about current prices and how it is killing the poor?

And why is drug testing not commonly seen as a barrier to employment? If that’s it it’s a reach.
 

xxxWalkTheDawg

New member
Oct 21, 2005
4,262
0
0
After reading that article, this is your takeaway?

I get the point your making and agree that people should try to keep their politics out of an article like this but that’s not realistic anymore, everything is political. I just think it’s a mistake to dismiss the entire article because you may have a problem with a phrase.

oh don’t get me wrong. I’m not dismissing seriousness of any public corruption allegations or wrongdoing.

but tell me the unbiased truth. Don’t make me believe it’s a hit piece. Isn’t that what journalists are supposed to do? Why is that not realistic? Can you go to work and not talk politics?
 

ronpolk

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
8,125
2,617
113
if that’s it… that’s an incredible reach. How do these same people get to medical appointments? Grocery stores? Relatives homes? If people are that destitute… why is the columnist not apoplectic about current prices and how it is killing the poor?

And why is drug testing not commonly seen as a barrier to employment? If that’s it it’s a reach.

She may be apologetic to the poor about current prices. I have no idea. But that is not what the article is about. I’m not even saying what I posted is enough that I justify her comment that Bryant made getting these funds more difficult. I’m simply posting what the article says to support that statement. You’re certainly free to have your own opinion about that statement. I personally have no problem with drug testing. But I will say it’s highly ironic that these funds wouldn’t be given to someone who qualified for them if they popped positive on a drug test but they paid for drug rehab for someone who didn’t qualify for the welfare.
 

BoomBoom.sixpack

New member
Aug 22, 2012
810
0
0
if that’s it… that’s an incredible reach. How do these same people get to medical appointments? Grocery stores? Relatives homes? If people are that destitute… why is the columnist not apoplectic about current prices and how it is killing the poor?

And why is drug testing not commonly seen as a barrier to employment? If that’s it it’s a reach.

 
Last edited:

mstateglfr

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2008
13,476
3,401
113
if that’s it… that’s an incredible reach. How do these same people get to medical appointments Grocery stores? Relatives homes? If people are that destitute… why is the columnist not apoplectic about current prices and how it is killing the poor?

And why is drug testing not commonly seen as a barrier to employment? If that’s it it’s a reach.

View attachment 24297

Is the law that he supported something that makes it easier or more difficult for welfare money to get to those that need it?
It sure as 17 doesn't seem like something that makes the process easier, therefore the article claims Bryant made it harder.

Seems pretty simple, but it is also clearly beside the point of the article.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,075
5,076
113
Even c34 knows “barrier”s aren’t impossible to get around. Are you not aware of medical transport for the poor? Be thankful. If you legit had no idea that people lived without easy ways to get to appointments and don’t even know anybody personally in that situation, be thankful not judgemental and certainly don’t proclaim that it ain’t a problem and is “political”.
 
Last edited:

jdbulldog

Active member
Oct 27, 2007
2,551
319
83
LOL

I left Mississippi in 2007. Good to see some things never change. Tthere's nothing like the good old boy network in Mississippi

Now there's corruption in the every state government and it's really not different in other small states (population wise). It's a shame you guys have this as your leading story when you have so many things else to do.

Are you saying Mississippi is ahead of the curve? Lol
 

She Mate Me

Well-known member
Dec 7, 2008
9,649
6,203
113
oh don’t get me wrong. I’m not dismissing seriousness of any public corruption allegations or wrongdoing.

but tell me the unbiased truth. Don’t make me believe it’s a hit piece. Isn’t that what journalists are supposed to do? Why is that not realistic? Can you go to work and not talk politics?

If you read very much from Mississippi Today, I think you'll have a hard time not noticing a very clear angle from which they enter into any story idea. It's frustrating, as we need quality, honest and as unbiased as possible reporting now maybe more than ever. They clearly have some talent working there. I wish they saw more sides of issues.

And don't make this about my politics, because my SOP is too never trust any politician until they make it very clear they are worthy of it. That's very rare in my experience.
 

WilCoDawg

Well-known member
Sep 6, 2012
4,317
2,277
113
IBleedMaroonDawg said:
LOL

I left Mississippi in 2007. Good to see some things never change. Tthere's nothing like the good old boy network in Mississippi

Now there's corruption in the every state government and it's really not different in other small states (population wise). It's a shame you guys have this as your leading story when you have so many things else to do.
It’s no different here in TN. That’s politics SOP.
 

ronpolk

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
8,125
2,617
113
If you read very much from Mississippi Today, I think you'll have a hard time not noticing a very clear angle from which they enter into any story idea. It's frustrating, as we need quality, honest and as unbiased as possible reporting now maybe more than ever. They clearly have some talent working there. I wish they saw more sides of issues.

And don't make this about my politics, because my SOP is too never trust any politician until they make it very clear they are worthy of it. That's very rare in my experience.

I’m not saying the article is not written by someone who clearly favors one side over the other. And I know that is likely a reason for her writing the articles in the first place. But I’m just not seeing a ton of bias in her articles. They are very much fact driven, I mean they are backed up by text messages.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,235
2,465
113
Reading the article now… below is from the article:

In fact, Bryant previously signed and publicly lauded a new law that requires applicants and recipients of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families to take drug screenings and tests or face rejection from the program. The policy became a significant barrier to eligibility, even for people who don’t abuse substances, because applicants must find transportation to the testing clinic.

I would say this is the barrier she is talking about. Bryant would require people with no history of drug abuse to take drug test in order to receive the funds, all while these same funds paid for others to go to drug rehab.

If people are on TANF and doing drugs, encouraging them to get off drugs is not really bad policy. It's also helpful to get support from people that view much of welfare spending as wasteful to let them know that they are doing things to limit abuse. It's poisonous politically to tell people that are working that they can be forced to take drug tests in order to make money and pay taxes to the government, but the recipients of that tax money can't be forced to take drug tests. It used to not be cost effective (and I assume it still isn't unless the drug testing has gotten cheaper), but unfortunately the argument against it aht got public traction was that it was demeaning to the people receiving welfare, as if it drug testing was accusing them of being on drugs. THat obviously generated a lot of animosity from taxpayers, many of whom are drug tested, so it's going to be hard to eliminate drug testing (regardless of the fact that it's basically toothless as it is implemented) without getting politicians that support TANF spending kicked out of office.

ETA: All that to say, her comments are editorial content that don't belong in a straight news story. I'm not sure if this is being marketed as a news story though. Regardless, if there is a news organization that respects the difference between editorial content and news content, I'm not aware of it.
 
Last edited:

ronpolk

Well-known member
May 6, 2009
8,125
2,617
113
If people are on TANF and doing drugs, encouraging them to get off drugs is not really bad policy. It's also helpful to get support from people that view much of welfare spending as wasteful to let them know that they are doing things to limit abuse. It's poisonous politically to tell people that are working that they can be forced to take drug tests in order to make money and pay taxes to the government, but the recipients of that tax money can't be forced to take drug tests. It used to not be cost effective (and I assume it still isn't unless the drug testing has gotten cheaper), but unfortunately the argument against it aht got public traction was that it was demeaning to the people receiving welfare, as if it drug testing was accusing them of being on drugs. THat obviously generated a lot of animosity from taxpayers, many of whom are drug tested, so it's going to be hard to eliminate drug testing (regardless of the fact that it's basically toothless as it is implemented) without getting politicians that support TANF spending kicked out of office.

ETA: All that to say, her comments are editorial content that don't belong in a straight news story. I'm not sure if this is being marketed as a news story though. Regardless, if there is a news organization that respects the difference between editorial content and news content, I'm not aware of it.

I agree with you on the drug testing. I got no problem with that. I was simply posting that I believe this is what the writer is using as justification for a barrier to welfare.
 

Smoked Toag

New member
Jul 15, 2021
3,262
1
0
The people who should be tried for crimes are on trial, throughout this whole deal.

The rest are just getting sent through the political ringer for lack of judgment (Bryant, Favre, etc.). I

It's all a big non-story as far as Mississippi, specifically. It happens everywhere.
 

She Mate Me

Well-known member
Dec 7, 2008
9,649
6,203
113
I’m not saying the article is not written by someone who clearly favors one side over the other. And I know that is likely a reason for her writing the articles in the first place. But I’m just not seeing a ton of bias in her articles. They are very much fact driven, I mean they are backed up by text messages.

I didn't mean to indicate she wasn't doing good work. I think she and others there absolutely are. Important work exposing things that need to be known.

I just wish I could read their stories and especially some of the stuff they trumpet on social media and not feel like I'm getting less than a full scope of goings on in state politics. They play favorites and it does them a disservice.
 

mstateglfr

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2008
13,476
3,401
113
If people are on TANF and doing drugs, encouraging them to get off drugs is not really bad policy. It's also helpful to get support from people that view much of welfare spending as wasteful to let them know that they are doing things to limit abuse. It's poisonous politically to tell people that are working that they can be forced to take drug tests in order to make money and pay taxes to the government, but the recipients of that tax money can't be forced to take drug tests. It used to not be cost effective (and I assume it still isn't unless the drug testing has gotten cheaper), but unfortunately the argument against it aht got public traction was that it was demeaning to the people receiving welfare, as if it drug testing was accusing them of being on drugs. THat obviously generated a lot of animosity from taxpayers, many of whom are drug tested, so it's going to be hard to eliminate drug testing (regardless of the fact that it's basically toothless as it is implemented) without getting politicians that support TANF spending kicked out of office.

ETA: All that to say, her comments are editorial content that don't belong in a straight news story. I'm not sure if this is being marketed as a news story though. Regardless, if there is a news organization that respects the difference between editorial content and news content, I'm not aware of it.

If you want to drug test people that receive government aid to ensure that aid is not being wasted, then farmers, research universities, businesses, and gobs of other categories that receive direct subsidies from the government should also be tested.
Then there are all those who benefit from indirect government subsidies like child tax credit, employer health insurance that isnt taxed, home mortgage deductions, etc where the individuals taxes are cut instead of sending them money. Test them too since its government aid and cant be wasted.
This money the government gives businesses and individuals can be directly tied to illegal drug use. Like money is given to a company from the government, the company pays a salary, and the worker then uses their paycheck. That company neednt actually produce anything of tangible value to justify the contract money. We can all point to examples where companies have literally just been given money by the government, right? Then there is the reality that some people take their tax refund check(that is a refund due to home mortgage and child tax credits for example) and blow it all on...blow, and hookers.
In both situations, the government is giving people money and its used on illegal drugs. Test em!

This has all been played out though. Florida's drug testing law a decade ago was deemed improper because the state couldnt show a substantial need for drug testing, making it an unreasonable search. The reality that welfare recipients are no more likely to be drug addicts than the average citizen means there is no substantial need to 'search'. <---this is my non-lawyer interpretation of what happened as its been a moment since I read about it.
Testing was done in multiple states to support this reality.


As it currently stands, this is basically just a divisive measure that some want to take to hassle welfare recipients and others want to take because they genuinely want to see the money spent 'responsibly'. That second group is coming at it from a pragmatic perspective and I get the motivation. They are misguided, but I understand the intent. They are focusing on something social that has been readily deamonized so it is easy to focus on, meanwhile the same effective waste is happening across America by way of government subsidies to businesses and nothing is said by those same people. They either dont recognize it as being effectively the same or it isnt even on their radar.




Next up on things to attack welfare recipients over, lets go after SNAP users and junk food! Honestly, it drives me nuts too- I dont know why so much unhealthy food is included, but there is only so much reasonable oversight government can do when its funding is continually slashed. OSHA is shorthanded because of being short on budget to function fully. Food safety and food prep inspections are backed up because of being short on budget to function fully. etc etc etc. We dont have the overall manpower to competently track and limit on a more granular level what shouldnt qualify for SNAP benefits. And similarly, we dont have the overall manpower to test and track drug use for welfare recipients. This is especially true when you look at the cost/benefit of other states that did this in the past(Utah, Michigan, and...Tennessee?...I think).
 

Maroon Eagle

Well-known member
May 24, 2006
16,489
5,445
102
Yep. It's true. So it's untainted.

See this article (and more importantly, charts and graphs over a timeline) from over a year ago: Link.

Now what needs to be checked is how does it compare to other Governors (e.g., state welfare checks in 1999 when Fordice was governor were $170 monthly for a family of three and that hasn't changed during Musgrove, Barbour, and at least the beginning of Reeves' administrations either).

Anna Wolfe does good work. She, Jerry Mitchell, and Rose Bowl might be the best investigative journalists in the state.
 
Last edited:

3407Dewey

Member
Jun 4, 2014
176
155
43
True

If you read very much from Mississippi Today, I think you'll have a hard time not noticing a very clear angle from which they enter into any story idea. It's frustrating, as we need quality, honest and as unbiased as possible reporting now maybe more than ever. They clearly have some talent working there. I wish they saw more sides of issues.

And don't make this about my politics, because my SOP is too never trust any politician until they make it very clear they are worthy of it. That's very rare in my experience.

It's very hard to find unbiased journalism. Knowing that, I've made it a point to subscribe to media (or even follow journalists on Twitter) from across the political spectrum. It's about the only way to avoid the echo chamber. After reading the various "takes" on the issue, I at least have a better idea of what the actual issue is rather than take one side's word for it.
 

ColoradoDawg

New member
Sep 3, 2016
511
0
0
Man, the good ole boys in MS must be so pissed at that reporter. Some liberal from WA blowing up their welfare fraud. As sad as it is seeing what is going on here, it is probably a small glimpse at things work at the broader federal level too. There are so many grifters out there and they come in all shapes and sizes. These snaky politicians take all the money from the welfare department like it's their own personal piggy bank and then criticize the people who actually need it. They are also always tough on crime until its their familiy and then they get sent off to rehab in Malibu. Shame, but nothing suprising. In case anyone is wondering, there will be some fall guys, but most of them will get away with it cause they are well connected.
 

Smoked Toag

New member
Jul 15, 2021
3,262
1
0
Man, the good ole boys in MS must be so pissed at that reporter. Some liberal from WA blowing up their welfare fraud. As sad as it is seeing what is going on here, it is probably a small glimpse at things work at the broader federal level too. There are so many grifters out there and they come in all shapes and sizes. These snaky politicians take all the money from the welfare department like it's their own personal piggy bank and then criticize the people who actually need it. They are also always tough on crime until its their familiy and then they get sent off to rehab in Malibu. Shame, but nothing suprising. In case anyone is wondering, there will be some fall guys, but most of them will get away with it cause they are well connected.
No doubt. But it's much easier to get away with at state level than federal. You have to be pretty dang powerful at the federal level, and many times the way they do it is all above board.
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,235
2,465
113
If you want to drug test people that receive government aid to ensure that aid is not being wasted, then farmers, research universities, businesses, and gobs of other categories that receive direct subsidies from the government should also be tested.
Well, there is a pretty big difference between people that are in theory doing something the government wants to encourage (hence the subsidies) and people that are receiving welfare. But aside from that, a lot of those people are drug tested because there are drug free workplace requirements tied to a lot of money.


Then there are all those who benefit from indirect government subsidies like child tax credit, employer health insurance that isnt taxed, home mortgage deductions, etc where the individuals taxes are cut instead of sending them money. Test them too since its government aid and cant be wasted.
A lot of those are just the government refraining from taking more money from people. Some of that may be allowed because of poor reasoning or preferential treatment, but that's still a step different from sending people money.


This money the government gives businesses and individuals can be directly tied to illegal drug use. Like money is given to a company from the government, the company pays a salary, and the worker then uses their paycheck. That company neednt actually produce anything of tangible value to justify the contract money. We can all point to examples where companies have literally just been given money by the government, right? Then there is the reality that some people take their tax refund check(that is a refund due to home mortgage and child tax credits for example) and blow it all on...blow, and hookers.
In both situations, the government is giving people money and its used on illegal drugs. Test em!
No, in some instances it is the government giving people money. In some instances it is the government taking less. In other instances it is the government returning money. All look similar economically if you assume everything belongs to the government. They are not equivalent though.

This has all been played out though. Florida's drug testing law a decade ago was deemed improper because the state couldnt show a substantial need for drug testing, making it an unreasonable search. The reality that welfare recipients are no more likely to be drug addicts than the average citizen means there is no substantial need to 'search'. <---this is my non-lawyer interpretation of what happened as its been a moment since I read about it.
Testing was done in multiple states to support this reality.


As it currently stands, this is basically just a divisive measure that some want to take to hassle welfare recipients and others want to take because they genuinely want to see the money spent 'responsibly'. That second group is coming at it from a pragmatic perspective and I get the motivation. They are misguided, but I understand the intent. They are focusing on something social that has been readily deamonized so it is easy to focus on, meanwhile the same effective waste is happening across America by way of government subsidies to businesses and nothing is said by those same people. They either dont recognize it as being effectively the same or it isnt even on their radar.
[/QUOTE] The early litigation stating that you can't drug test was decided based on politics although it is actually not a terrible decision. Although it's ludicrous in the context of welfare, it avoids a line drawing exercise in other areas, where the government makes some sort of benefits generally available and implements quasi political tests to be able to receive them. But again, the things you are talking about are not effectively the same.




Next up on things to attack welfare recipients over, lets go after SNAP users and junk food! Honestly, it drives me nuts too- I dont know why so much unhealthy food is included, but there is only so much reasonable oversight government can do when its funding is continually slashed. OSHA is shorthanded because of being short on budget to function fully. Food safety and food prep inspections are backed up because of being short on budget to function fully. etc etc etc. We dont have the overall manpower to competently track and limit on a more granular level what shouldnt qualify for SNAP benefits. And similarly, we dont have the overall manpower to test and track drug use for welfare recipients. This is especially true when you look at the cost/benefit of other states that did this in the past(Utah, Michigan, and...Tennessee?...I think).
Prohibiting the use of SNAP on the most unhealthy foods wouldn't be that much more of a burden. They are already in the weeds over prepared food. For example, some stores will sell you cooked shrimp that is cold, but they won't sell you cooked shrimp that is hot, because they are concerned that it is then prepared food (or whatever the term is that stops you from using SNAP on essentially take-out). The reason things with no nutritional value can be bought is because the companies that produce soft drinks are politically stout. It'd be hard to prohibit anything because of health issues without prohibiting soft drinks, so it's not going to happen.
 

IBleedMaroonDawg

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2007
23,177
7,202
113
It’s no different here in TN. That’s politics SOP.

That is what I was saying really. When you have a state that is a smaller population and less politicians it's not as easy for underhanded dealings It might look like there's more happening on the surface but there's just as much if not more going on in a bigger state .
 

FreeDawg

Member
Oct 6, 2010
3,628
230
48
People that don’t have jobs should get drug tested for free money. Lets not over complicate this with whatsboutisms. If you are on welfare, you should not be using that program to fund addiction. The flip-side of this is we also shouldn’t incentivize not working and I see that regularly as an employer. You have to limit some folks hours so they don’t losing housing or some other assistance. We should never have a system that doesn’t incentivize work.
 

Misfit

New member
Oct 21, 2018
451
0
0
The linked article is the 5th or 6th or 7th in a series. You should read them all before you attack the writer. I have read them and think she has done a damned good job of establishing that Phil did everything he could to make sure TANF funds did not get to the people Congress intended those funds to help.
 

PirateDawg

New member
Jan 9, 2020
1,751
0
0
I don't know about that. Seems most of the politicians in DC have their kids making lots of money as a result of their position and party lines have nothing to do with it. Romney, Biden, Clintons, etc. ad nauseum
 

BoomBoom.sixpack

New member
Aug 22, 2012
810
0
0
People that don’t have jobs should get drug tested for free money. Lets not over complicate this with whatsboutisms. If you are on welfare, you should not be using that program to fund addiction. The flip-side of this is we also shouldn’t incentivize not working and I see that regularly as an employer. You have to limit some folks hours so they don’t losing housing or some other assistance. We should never have a system that doesn’t incentivize work.

In a better world. But here in this one, the two main problems with that are 1, it costs more money than it saves, and 2, the people you do kick off welfare are drug addicts who now have no job and no welfare money. It's not rocket science to figure out how that's going to turn out. Given 1, it seems like the least bad solution is to just say screw it and address drug use by other means.

The reason a small portion of "welfare" funds disincentivize work is for this exact desire to limit funds. It's highly ironic. After all, if you DIDN'T limit funds to those that worked those extra hours, then you'd be giving funds to someone who didn't "need" or "deserve" it, right?
 

johnson86-1

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2012
12,235
2,465
113
In a better world. But here in this one, the two main problems with that are 1, it costs more money than it saves, and 2, the people you do kick off welfare are drug addicts who now have no job and no welfare money. It's not rocket science to figure out how that's going to turn out. Given 1, it seems like the least bad solution is to just say screw it and address drug use by other means.

The reason a small portion of "welfare" funds disincentivize work is for this exact desire to limit funds. It's highly ironic. After all, if you DIDN'T limit funds to those that worked those extra hours, then you'd be giving funds to someone who didn't "need" or "deserve" it, right?

I would say the reason you have high implicit marginal tax rates (which disincentivizes work beyond just a wealth effect) is because we have a lot of disjointed programs that are not tied together on phaseouts, so not only do you have "professionals" making more money off welfare programs than people who actually are trying to become self sufficient, you also end up with a recipients that could significantly add to their income (by like 10 or even 20 thousand depending on family size) and net something like 10% of that increase after paying taxes and receiving reduced welfare benefits. Very few people will keep busting their *** if they know it doesn't make a big difference in the standard of living at the end of the day (or at least not for several years or even a decade).

The reason they are so disjointed is some combination of they were easy to get enacted piecemeal, there are a lot of people that make a living administering all the different programs, and a concern that if there is one program for administering government benefits, it will be easier to oversee that program and potentially cut benefits.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Get unlimited access today.

Pick the right plan for you.

Already a member? Login