OT: Flagstone patio
- Thread starter dorndawg
- Start date
Can’t help you on price. Mines probably 15-20 years old but I wouldn’t do it again. Too much upkeep. Can’t keep it clean, can’t roll grills and such on it, and it’s invariably going to crack and weeds and grass will grow in the cracks. The advantages are that they look fabulous and they don’t get hot so you can walk barefoot on it.
A quick google search says the size he is looking for is almost exactly 10K on average. You are correct, sir.
Hey Dorn. I’m a landscaper. I priced a patio like that yesterday for a lady. Right now we’re at $30 a square ft. Like bite said I would look at pavers instead of flagstone. We are doing paver for about $19 a square foot. Pavers will be level, with smaller joints, and pretty much no upkeep. There prices are for a normal pretty flat ordinary job. If the patio requires a retaining wall or steps it could be more. Also access to that area may add some money as well.
If I was smart enough to post pics I could show you some examples we’ve done. Or you can PM me and I’ll help you all I can.
If I was smart enough to post pics I could show you some examples we’ve done. Or you can PM me and I’ll help you all I can.
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Yikes. Appreciate the info, and also from everybody else. Have you ever fooled with stamped concrete?
I’ve been looking into the same for a patio in our backyard. What about a pea gravel topped concrete patio? How much is that per Sqft these days?
I was just about to recommend stamped concrete as a cheaper alternative. When done correctly, it looks great and is maintenance free. Just be careful about the sealer, too high gloss can be slippery on outdoor surfaces.
I’ve never done stamped concrete. We had a job that I subbed out some sidewalks on. Once you get into stamped concrete there a lot of variables. Concrete company, do they have the stamps, are they the pattern you want? Do they form, pour, and stamp or will you need multiple crews in and out. Pavers and just regular concrete/exposed aggregate are pretty close in price most of the time. Just depend on the little things. Back yard probably mean a pump truck for concrete.
As for DIY I’d be careful. Lots of weekend warriors don’t realize how much soil has to come out or in to get the dirt right for a 500 plus sq ft patio. No to mention the 5 to 8 inches of limestone base, sand, mortar, and 5 pallets of flagstone. We’re talking about tons not lbs. Hell it take two to three men to get the plate compacter to the back yard with no machine.
As for DIY I’d be careful. Lots of weekend warriors don’t realize how much soil has to come out or in to get the dirt right for a 500 plus sq ft patio. No to mention the 5 to 8 inches of limestone base, sand, mortar, and 5 pallets of flagstone. We’re talking about tons not lbs. Hell it take two to three men to get the plate compacter to the back yard with no machine.
Thanks again for the info. I'd give DIY a go, but I've just never found a shovel or wheelbarrow that fit right in my hands.
Pea gravel exposed concrete is unfortunately coming back, and it is a sub-standard material that looks cool. It cracks terribly, can get slick when wet, and can be tough on bare feet. It contains smaller aggregate, gets sprayed with an acid after initial cure and sprayed off, which weakens the cement. It needs at minimum #3 bars to minimize cracks and even that may not hold it together like a regular structural mix.
Side note- Euclid structural macrofibers (2-3 inches in length) show some impressive results in concrete flexural strength. I've used them over questionable bases where steel wasn't practical and have been impressed so far.
Side note- Euclid structural macrofibers (2-3 inches in length) show some impressive results in concrete flexural strength. I've used them over questionable bases where steel wasn't practical and have been impressed so far.
Alright dorn I will jump in. From 2015-2020 I worked in new concrete and concrete repair. I was mostly on the commercial side but spent 20-30% of my time on residential in the DFW area.
Our business was to try and repair cracked or settled concrete flatwork and home or building foundations by using polyurethane injections to lift flatwork and the interior of buildings and use piers to lift footers and stem walls. We also ripped out and replaced items that were beyond repair. We had our own concrete crew in house and worked with subs on things like flagstone and pavers.
I have been to more than a dozen homes with failed flagstone patios (wet or mortared style) and there is no repair option. This was in the DFW area with expansive clay soils. The mortar beds were plopped on top of a few inches of sand or dg, but it was useless as tits on a bull.
When the soil moved, the mortar bed has zero structure and it popped the flagstones up creating death traps. If you do flagstone and there is any type of risk of movement from tree roots, erosion, expansive clay etc, you have to do on top of a reinforced (#3 rebar 18" on center) concrete slab 3.5" thick. The other option is to dry fit it in sand so if you get movement you can reset it like pavers, but everyone of those I have seen is kind a mess of sand getting tracked around because the gaps are so wide in flagstone. I can't imagine sealing it holding up for long either.
The three primary options for grade level of patios in order of expense are concrete, pavers, and flagstone. Pre Covid pricing on a concrete patio your size in DFW with reasonable access would have be $8 per sf for a simple broom finish. You can dress it up by mixing a color dye into the concrete in the truck for $1 a square foot and do a salt finish for another $1 per sf if you want it to look a little more unique.-- I did this exact option on my pool deck. Pics below.
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Pavers should not be that expensive in the south honestly and are my favorite option for a non structural patio. I'm doing a paver project myself this summer. 450 SF and its up against a retaining wall with several angles that have to be cut. Where I live is ridiculously expensive for construction (new builds are pushing $500/sf.) I was sure I would be diy on this project, but I used my old hack of going to the supplier and asking for a competent small paver contractor that doesn't advertise. Guy quoted me just under $14/sf which is $1-1.5k more than I would have paid to do it myself after renting a dump trailer, saw, laser level etc. His work is great according to the yard.
Flagstone, done right would have to be in the $25+/sf range imo, because you need that structural slab underneath. So it's effectively a concrete and paver project added together.
So all that said, I would go find a couple of different paver suppliers and ask for recommendations for competent young hungry installers. I would guess most times pavers are sold by contractors (like myself back in DFW) that hire these young hungry guys as subs and mark it up 40% to the homeowner or buy companies that drop tons of money into overhead and advertising. No way you should pay as much in the south for pavers as I am in the mountains where we are 2 hours from suppliers and our build season is from May to October before the snow comes.
Also, ask for the cash discount after the quote. These guys really like cashola.
Our business was to try and repair cracked or settled concrete flatwork and home or building foundations by using polyurethane injections to lift flatwork and the interior of buildings and use piers to lift footers and stem walls. We also ripped out and replaced items that were beyond repair. We had our own concrete crew in house and worked with subs on things like flagstone and pavers.
I have been to more than a dozen homes with failed flagstone patios (wet or mortared style) and there is no repair option. This was in the DFW area with expansive clay soils. The mortar beds were plopped on top of a few inches of sand or dg, but it was useless as tits on a bull.
When the soil moved, the mortar bed has zero structure and it popped the flagstones up creating death traps. If you do flagstone and there is any type of risk of movement from tree roots, erosion, expansive clay etc, you have to do on top of a reinforced (#3 rebar 18" on center) concrete slab 3.5" thick. The other option is to dry fit it in sand so if you get movement you can reset it like pavers, but everyone of those I have seen is kind a mess of sand getting tracked around because the gaps are so wide in flagstone. I can't imagine sealing it holding up for long either.
The three primary options for grade level of patios in order of expense are concrete, pavers, and flagstone. Pre Covid pricing on a concrete patio your size in DFW with reasonable access would have be $8 per sf for a simple broom finish. You can dress it up by mixing a color dye into the concrete in the truck for $1 a square foot and do a salt finish for another $1 per sf if you want it to look a little more unique.-- I did this exact option on my pool deck. Pics below.
View attachment 24439
View attachment 24440
View attachment 24442
View attachment 24441
Pavers should not be that expensive in the south honestly and are my favorite option for a non structural patio. I'm doing a paver project myself this summer. 450 SF and its up against a retaining wall with several angles that have to be cut. Where I live is ridiculously expensive for construction (new builds are pushing $500/sf.) I was sure I would be diy on this project, but I used my old hack of going to the supplier and asking for a competent small paver contractor that doesn't advertise. Guy quoted me just under $14/sf which is $1-1.5k more than I would have paid to do it myself after renting a dump trailer, saw, laser level etc. His work is great according to the yard.
Flagstone, done right would have to be in the $25+/sf range imo, because you need that structural slab underneath. So it's effectively a concrete and paver project added together.
So all that said, I would go find a couple of different paver suppliers and ask for recommendations for competent young hungry installers. I would guess most times pavers are sold by contractors (like myself back in DFW) that hire these young hungry guys as subs and mark it up 40% to the homeowner or buy companies that drop tons of money into overhead and advertising. No way you should pay as much in the south for pavers as I am in the mountains where we are 2 hours from suppliers and our build season is from May to October before the snow comes.
Also, ask for the cash discount after the quote. These guys really like cashola.
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Pricing is completely dependent upon location. More urban typically means more money. Concrete pavers are some of the best bang for Buck you can get. When your stamped concrete cracks, there is no good way to repair. Stamped concrete is probably in the 12-14 dollar a sq ft range
As stated above, to properly do flagstone, it needs to be over a concrete pad with minimum thickness of 4”. Mortar joints are still going to be a maintenance item. Steps are more than likely being skipped if it’s done for less than 25 dollars or so per sq ft. 30 is probably more appropriate.
Pavers should start around 15-17 per foot. Could be more depending on paver selection and your location.Compaction is key. If you want it to last, find a contractor that has a plate compactor that takes a machine to move it. If you can move it with 2-3 people, it’s not big enough according to the engineers at the interlocking concrete paving institute. If you follow their guidelines, your pavers should be essentially maintenance free other than what you would do for concrete.
As stated above, to properly do flagstone, it needs to be over a concrete pad with minimum thickness of 4”. Mortar joints are still going to be a maintenance item. Steps are more than likely being skipped if it’s done for less than 25 dollars or so per sq ft. 30 is probably more appropriate.
Pavers should start around 15-17 per foot. Could be more depending on paver selection and your location.Compaction is key. If you want it to last, find a contractor that has a plate compactor that takes a machine to move it. If you can move it with 2-3 people, it’s not big enough according to the engineers at the interlocking concrete paving institute. If you follow their guidelines, your pavers should be essentially maintenance free other than what you would do for concrete.
I’ve looked at pavers and flagstone. It’s just going to be pretty expensive and we have a pea gravel concrete driveway and sidewalk already, so it would match what we already have.
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