OT:Ford Lightning Follow-Up

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Well it only took 19 months to get my invitation to order a Ford Lightning. I have long since given up on the idea of actually buying it after seeing the atrocious real world towing and cold weather range. But I was curious so I waited to get my $100 back.

I was originally intrigued about buying an XLT ( not a fan of leather, but do like a few other creature comforts) that in May of 2021 was earmarked for a price of around $50k. After a $7.5k rebate, not a bad deal.

Well that was a pipe dream. Logged in to see what the ordering process looks like… bwaahhhaaa. I can only order a Lariat or Platinum. $88k is my price before TT&L. With $9k down I could sneak out of there with a monthly payment of $1200 for only 84 months. But I’d save $100 a month in gas.***

Seems a bit steep for a “truck” that can only tow a teardrop camper 115 miles under optimal conditions.

Motortrend Lightning Towing Test

What a joke.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Well it only took 19 months to get my invitation to order a Ford Lightning. I have long since given up on the idea of actually buying it after seeing the atrocious real world towing and cold weather range. But I was curious so I waited to get my $100 back.

I was originally intrigued about buying an XLT ( not a fan of leather, but do like a few other creature comforts) that in May of 2021 was earmarked for a price of around $50k. After a $7.5k rebate, not a bad deal.

Well that was a pipe dream. Logged in to see what the ordering process looks like… bwaahhhaaa. I can only order a Lariat or Platinum. $88k is my price before TT&L. With $9k down I could sneak out of there with a monthly payment of $1200 for only 84 months. But I’d save $100 a month in gas.***

Seems a bit steep for a “truck” that can only tow a teardrop camper 115 miles under optimal conditions.

Motortrend Lightning Towing Test

What a joke.

View attachment 294987
View attachment 294989

Yeah...no! I'm still blown away at the power and, relative to size/weight, fuel economy of my 3.5L.

ETA: and I have enough torque to tow way more than you could put on the hitch and stay within bumper weight limits

 

[ababyatemydingo]

Yeah, no thanks

 

[mstateglfr]

Those are all very large numbers. Tough to even consider without laughing. Its just a truck.
Wild.

But I bet they do well even at the prices they list.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Yeah...no! I'm still blown away at the power and, relative to size/weight, fuel economy of my 3.5L.

ETA: and I have enough torque to two way more than you could put on the hitch and stay within bumper weight limits

Loved my old 3.5. Got amazing mileage and like you say, had power to spare. Had to upgrade to the 250 for towing my rv though. You don’t want to tow more than 5-6k regularly with a 1/2 ton in my experience.

 

[patdog]

EV's make a lot of sense as a commuter / short trips vehicle if you have another one available for longer trips and/or any towing (edit: and if you have easy access to home charging). Not much use otherwise.

 

[thatsbaseball]

I'm interested in how they're going to get their "road usage" taxes out of these things.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I'm interested in how they're going to get their "road usage" taxes out of these things.

It makes a lot of sense to have usage taxes tied to weight/axles/mileage, if you are trying to get people to pay some proportional share of road upkeep. It'll be interesting to see how things go. Aren't these EVs super heavy?

 

[T-TownDawgg]

EVs are one of the biggest scams on the American taxpayer since the 2008 bank/auto bailouts.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

I'm interested in how they're going to get their "road usage" taxes out of these things.

Starkville has a special rate they charge on the tag.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

EVs are one of the biggest scams on the American taxpayer since the 2008 bank/auto bailouts.

What is the scam? I don't get it. I mean I don't want an EV, but it's just because their use case, given their current capabilities, doesn't fit my current lifestyle. Is there something not up front about EV specs/capabilities that is scamming people. Serious question. I'm pretty ignorant of such.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Who needs electric?

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

EVs are one of the biggest scams on the American taxpayer since the 2008 bank/auto bailouts.

Disagree. The vast majority of people drive 200 miles or less in a day, and do not have to carry heavy cargo. For those 85% of drivers, electric makes perfect sense, but probably not a truck EV.

When gas was $5 a gallon, and everyone in the US wanted to kill Biden, a fully charged Silverado would have only cost, in Mississippi, 17 dollars to fill up for 400 mile range. Tesla or the Ford Mach E would only take around 9 dollars to fully charge.

I have looked at the Ford Mach E and they just need a little more capacity out of the batteries before I buy one for my wife. As a house with 4 cars, we can just drive on of the other ones when it is freezing cold or we have to take a longer trip than 100 miles from the house.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

View attachment 295018
Who needs electric?

That is a nice 70k dollar vehicle you have there.

 

[DerHntr]

View attachment 295018
Who needs electric?

That truck is BAD A SS

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

What is the scam? I don't get it. I mean I don't want an EV, but it's just because their use case, given their current capabilities, doesn't fit my current lifestyle. Is there something not up front about EV specs/capabilities that is scamming people. Serious question. I'm pretty ignorant of such.

There is no scam. Its just people in Mississippi cannot understand how basically 80-90% of the population drives less than 30 miles in a day and doesn't need to tow anything.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

View attachment 295018
Who needs electric?

I would buy it for 30k cash today.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

Cummins Diesel in that thing too, nice.

 

[Mud84]

Wowwwwwwwwww!

F That!

 

[thatsbaseball]

EVs are one of the biggest scams on the American taxpayer since the 2008 bank/auto bailouts.

I just don't want to lose my freedom to buy one OR NOT buy one for my transportation.

 

[thatsbaseball]

There is no scam. Its just people in Mississippi cannot understand how basically 80-90% of the population drives less than 30 miles in a day and doesn't need to tow anything.

I can make sense of one driving 100-150 miles a day. What I can't make sense of is investing that kind of money is something I'm going to average driving 20-30 miles a day.

 

[johnson86-1]

What is the scam? I don't get it. I mean I don't want an EV, but it's just because their use case, given their current capabilities, doesn't fit my current lifestyle. Is there something not up front about EV specs/capabilities that is scamming people. Serious question. I'm pretty ignorant of such.

I assume by scam on the american taxpayer he means all the subsidies. Which the subsidies are ridiculous as they are primarily going to very affluent people, but there are a lot of scams by that metric and the EV subsidies are just another one. Not nearly as notable as the 30% tax credits for residential roof top solar combined with forcing other ratepayers to buy electricity from them at an elevated rate.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I assume by scam on the american taxpayer he means all the subsidies. Which the subsidies are ridiculous as they are primarily going to very affluent people, but there are a lot of scams by that metric and the EV subsidies are just another one. Not nearly as notable as the 30% tax credits for residential roof top solar combined with forcing other ratepayers to buy electricity from them at an elevated rate.

Gotcha. If I got my BP up over gubmint subsidies I'd need a larger heart/healthcare budget. I seriously doubt any one person in the country can produce a list of all the subsidies...

 

[johnson86-1]

There is no scam. Its just people in Mississippi cannot understand how basically 80-90% of the population drives less than 30 miles in a day and doesn't need to tow anything.

But the gas savings don't pay for the extra costs if you're only driving 30 miles in a day.

I would like an electric car and think it would be fun. Wish I had gotten in on the jeep plug in hybrid before costs went (even more) crazy, as I would almost never need anything but electric. But at the end of the day, they are a play thing for the rich, or at least the pretty affluent. I just couldn't justify it and I don't think it's going to get more affordable unless they figure out a way to make batteries cheaper.

 

[The Peeper]

Disagree. The vast majority of people drive 200 miles or less in a day, and do not have to carry heavy cargo. For those 85% of drivers, electric makes perfect sense, but probably not a truck EV.

When gas was $5 a gallon, and everyone in the US wanted to kill Biden, a fully charged Silverado would have only cost, in Mississippi, 17 dollars to fill up for 400 mile range. Tesla or the Ford Mach E would only take around 9 dollars to fully charge.

I have looked at the Ford Mach E and they just need a little more capacity out of the batteries before I buy one for my wife. As a house with 4 cars, we can just drive on of the other ones when it is freezing cold or we have to take a longer trip than 100 miles from the house.

I think the other way. My commute is about 4 miles each way and I eat at the office. I think "why do I need an EV to drive just 8 miles daily, 40 miles total per week when I avg almost 30 mpg w/ my 4 cylinder Chevy eco engine? It doesn't make "perfect sense" to me to spend the extra for the EV and charging station

 

[T-TownDawgg]

If you commute short distances, are willing to have a real debate about the myth of how “green” they are, and the math works for you, go for it. But don’t use public money to subsidize a private industry shoved down our throats. If the mfers are cost effective in the long term, and the raw materials/recycling problems get resolved, the consumers of that market will catch up and it will take off.

I certainly don’t take well to the disingenuous way EV proponents shrug at obvious issues and give hero status to something that has already proven to be an untenable load on our already delicate grid.

The OP is exhibit A. As soon as the subsidies were nailed down, the prices commensurately increased for a product with poorer benefits than advertised that he may be told NOT to charge in hot and cold snaps.
I’m gonna stop myself here.

 

[Dawgbite]

I'm interested in how they're going to get their "road usage" taxes out of these things.

I can tell you, it’s an electric vehicle added tax when you get your tag. I put a license plate on an electric golf cart and the tag was higher than the wife’s Mercedes. Granted, the Mercedes is a 2016 but the golf cart is a 2011!

 

[GloryDawg]

The State House is considering charging a charge tax on charging stations.

One other note there is a big surplus of money, and they are going to debate what to do with it. They are talking about rebates. I think if the rural hospital issue is really real the money should go to that. You probably need to be on the phone bugging your Rep about the extra money and what to do with it. My aunt's husband is a retired Rep in the Missouri House of Reps. He says phone calls matter a lot and they take that serious. He said this is not for every state. He said they use the math of 1 to 500. That's Missouri. It is different than Mississippi but for every one call they count it as 500 calls. If one is feeling a particular way, then there are 500 others. Don't come on here and ***** get on the phone and *****.

 

[Seinfeld]

Well it only took 19 months to get my invitation to order a Ford Lightning. I have long since given up on the idea of actually buying it after seeing the atrocious real world towing and cold weather range. But I was curious so I waited to get my $100 back.

I was originally intrigued about buying an XLT ( not a fan of leather, but do like a few other creature comforts) that in May of 2021 was earmarked for a price of around $50k. After a $7.5k rebate, not a bad deal.

Well that was a pipe dream. Logged in to see what the ordering process looks like… bwaahhhaaa. I can only order a Lariat or Platinum. $88k is my price before TT&L. With $9k down I could sneak out of there with a monthly payment of $1200 for only 84 months. But I’d save $100 a month in gas.***

Seems a bit steep for a “truck” that can only tow a teardrop camper 115 miles under optimal conditions.

Motortrend Lightning Towing Test

What a joke.

View attachment 294987
View attachment 294989

I’m just amazed at car/truck prices these days in general. I get that a lot of these companies have upped their game during the last ten years, but do y’all remember when $50k was basically reserved for BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc?

Now, a well equipped Bronco is $70k, a Jeep Grand Cherokee is $65k, and don’t get me started on the Wagoneer. I’d have to take out a second mortgage. WTF has happened?

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

There is no scam. Its just people in Mississippi cannot understand how basically 80-90% of the population drives less than 30 miles in a day and doesn't need to tow anything.

30% of Americans live somewhere they can’t charge an EV at home. A friend’s son who lives in an apartment just bought a Tesla this summer in Austin with the idea he could just charge it close to his apartment. Turns out in the city they are always full so he ends up having to drive out of town to a supercharger.

Cold weather is a real battery killer too. A guy I know in town had an older Model S with a 75KWH battery and he just spent 12k getting it upgraded to 90KWH because he couldn’t safely make it down to the city (100 miles) on cold days.

Hell my plugin hybrid Jeep doesn’t even try to 17 with using the battery when it’s below 25 outside. Straight gas burner at that point.

But the gas savings don't pay for the extra costs if you're only driving 30 miles in a day.

I would like an electric car and think it would be fun. Wish I had gotten in on the jeep plug in hybrid before costs went (even more) crazy, as I would almost never need anything but electric. But at the end of the day, they are a play thing for the rich, or at least the pretty affluent. I just couldn't justify it and I don't think it's going to get more affordable unless they figure out a way to make batteries cheaper.

We ended up trading my wife’s Volvo in on the plug-in hybrid Jeep last year. After the $7500 tax credit it worked out to be $2k cheaper than the ICE version of the Jeep.

PHEV really is the way to go for most people. You get the benefits of both products. Nothing to the charger. $200 on Amazon for a level 2 and I just hook it up to my existing 50 amp outlet for the RV.

We do as much of our local running around in the Jeep since gas is still $3.75 a gallon up here. Yet we also had no problem driving through some of the most remote areas of the country in the North Fork of Glacier NP this summer.

 

[Puppers]

I can only order a Lariat or Platinum.

Ran into this problem getting a new F250 for the farm. Wanted an XLT and the dealer told me I could order it but it wouldn't get built. Got lucky and found one that just randomly got shipped to the dealer.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

30% of Americans live somewhere they can’t charge an EV at home. A friend’s son who lives in an apartment just bought a Tesla this summer in Austin with the idea he could just charge it close to his apartment. Turns out in the city they are always full so he ends up having to drive out of town to a supercharger.

Cold weather is a real battery killer too. A guy I know in town had an older Model S with a 75KWH battery and he just spent 12k getting it upgraded to 90KWH because he couldn’t safely make it down to the city (100 miles) on cold days.

Hell my plugin hybrid Jeep doesn’t even try to 17 with using the battery when it’s below 25 outside. Straight gas burner at that point.

We ended up trading my wife’s Volvo in on the plug-in hybrid Jeep last year. After the $7500 tax credit it worked out to be $2k cheaper than the ICE version of the Jeep.

PHEV really is the way to go for most people. You get the benefits of both products. Nothing to the charger. $200 on Amazon for a level 2 and I just hook it up to my existing 50 amp outlet for the RV.

We do as much of our local running around in the Jeep since gas is still $3.75 a gallon up here. Yet we also had no problem driving through some of the most remote areas of the country in the North Fork of Glacier NP this summer.

Agreed. Unfortunately they are scarce. I have called every Toyota dealership in a 300 mile radius for a RAV4 Prime. Toyota is sending all of them to the East and Left Coasts.

 

[Captain Ron]

On the other hand, I have had my Model 3 for 4.5 years. Almost 50,000 miles now. Still 290 miles range. Plug in at home most of time on the 110v although I have access to a 30a if I want to back in the garage. I have done quite a few road trips of up to 700 miles. At least to me, it wasn’t an issue because of the range of the car and the speed of the Super Charger. Yep, cold weather will drop the range, not much of an issue in Florida and wasn't when I lived in Georgia, but I wasn’t trying to go max range everyday either. Going from 300 range to 250 for 80 miles round trip from work didn’t make me sweat.

It isn’t right for every one or every situation, but at this point unless my driving habits change from what they have been the last 30 years, I’ll prolly get another
Tesla. On, I am not anti fossil fuel etc. 99% of the time it is less Hassle than my old gas car,

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

On the other hand, I have had my Model 3 for 4.5 years. Almost 50,000 miles now. Still 290 miles range. Plug in at home most of time on the 110v although I have access to a 30a if I want to back in the garage. I have done quite a few road trips of up to 700 miles. At least to me, it wasn’t an issue because of the range of the car and the speed of the Super Charger. Yep, cold weather will drop the range, not much of an issue in Florida and wasn't when I lived in Georgia, but I wasn’t trying to go max range everyday either. Going from 300 range to 250 for 80 miles round trip from work didn’t make me sweat.

It isn’t right for every one or every situation, but at this point unless my driving habits change from what they have been the last 30 years, I’ll prolly get another
Tesla. On, I am not anti fossil fuel etc. 99% of the time it is less Hassle than my old gas car,

If you are in a fairly populated place that doesn’t get cold very often, I think EVs make great cars. But for a truck or suv that you plan to even occasionally use to tow, haul, or off-road they’ve got a long ways to go.

I might break the bank and buy one if one of the big guys ever makes a 3/4 ton PHEV truck with 5k or more of on board generator. That would be the greatest truck ever built.

 

[Yeti]

I have the Ford F-150 hybrid thingy use electric motor on and off. Can put in sport and combine electric and gas and it hauls butter. Love it in town(Memphis/Germantown ) get 26/27 mpg … I know l, I know , if I install the bullet proof armor and windows that will drop the MPG

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

I would love a truck. Looked very briefly at the Lightening. The Pro seemed attainable the first year. It was a hair under 40k I believe. Apparently they made hardly any Pros and built all expensive trims. So I stopped read watching them at all.

I hope these auto makers and dealers have a reckoning these first couple quarters. They all deserve a fall back to reality. Idk who has been buying cars at these prices the last 2 years but the well is running dry.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I hope these auto makers and dealers have a reckoning these first couple quarters. They all deserve a fall back to reality. Idk who has been buying cars at these prices the last 2 years but the well is running dry.

It was kind of a wash to buy a new car in 20’, 21’, and the first half of 22’ if you had a later model trade-in. Right now it seems trade in values are crashing, but new prices and interest rates are high… that’s a bad combination.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

I, for one, welcome the opportunity to take out a mortgage on whatever EV I'm allowed to pre order.

But the gubmint will have to pry my gas range out of my cold, dead hands.
Agency considers banning gas stoves

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I, for one, welcome the opportunity to take out a mortgage on whatever EV I'm allowed to pre order.

But the gubmint will have to pry my gas range out of my cold, dead hands.
Agency considers banning gas stoves

Six years ago my youngest was born with severe lung disease. After a few weeks in the NICU the pulmonologist told us he would be high risk for asthma and other pulmonary diseases. Doc specifically mentioned our gas range as a leading cause for childhood asthma. I read up at the time and it was marginal at best.

We were looking to move anyway and ended up in place without gas service. Now we have a gas stove again, but I ain’t worried… cause we ain’t burning that dirty, inefficient LNG here… we got the good stuff.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

So I've put on here before that I bought a BMW i4 in June. Already have a little over 21,000 miles on it. I drive it one way about 70 miles to work. We have made trips to Birmingham and north Tennessee in it. I have 2 years of free charging at Electrify America stations, so that saved a little bit. I charge at my house almost every day. My electric bill has gone up about $40-$50 a month, and considering that I was spending about $450-$500 a month on gas alone before when gas was $4.50 a gallon, it makes perfect sense for me. It's my commuter car that replaced a now 17 year old Honda Accord with 436,000 miles on it (I still have that by the way). It gets down in the 20s or 30s some, but it hasn't killed my ability to commute to and from work in it. When the cold front came and it got to about 6 over Christmas I think it would have. But I could have driven in my Accord if I had to, but I probably just would have taken a vacation day that day or days. No oil changes I was having to get every month and a half, no transmission fluid changes, no antifreeze. I think it's great.

We went to north Tennessee over Christmas to my wife's grandmothers house. We had to stop in Jackson to charge up on the way there. I dropped the wife and kids off at Chic Fil A. By the time I got there, my wife hadn't even finished her coffee. We drove up the rest of the way then stopped back again in Jackson on the way back. It was the only time I've had to charge with my wife and kids waiting on me, but they realized it really wasn't that long of a wait. And it probably saved me about $50 in gas by not taking my wife's Odyssey. If you think it's a scam, then I'm not going to try to change your mind. I'll just tell you my experience, which is that I don't tow anything and my daily commute is usually around 140-150 miles. Between my car payment, added extra $21 a month in insurance, not having to get any oil changes, gas, or other maintenance, I was out around $200 a month. I'm out now around $400-$450 now that gas is a little lower. I still think it's worth it because I get to travel to see family and that is free. Plus, once I have my car paid off, I will have a payback from the normal operation of my Accord.

it isn't all rainbows and sunshine. I'll have to replace my tires a little more often than I would in my Accord because it's a heavier vehicle, but that's about it.

I'm looking to get an SUV for my wife in a few years and I want it to be electric as well.