OT: Frank Martin
- Thread starter 18IsTheMan
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My comment was not intended to compare the hierarchy of the Outback Bowl against the Final Four. Point was a Final Four appearance is not a reason to hang on to Martin forever. Martin was here 5 years after the Final Four never winning more than 18 games in a season and never finishing higher than 4th in the conference. Still, even 5 years later when he was fired, people were still using the Final Four as a reason to keep him around longer. I'd rather make the tournament 5 times out of his 10 years here not making it past the Sweet 16, rather than 1 Final Four appearance and never making the Dance in the other 9 years.
Bobby Knight won his national championships when players and society were different...As you see players at the end didn't take hard coaching like they did at the beginning...Things change and that which Knight did in 1981 wouldn't be tolerated today.
I have seen first hand how things change..I graduated from The Citadel in the late 70's....My two sons graduated in 2009 and 2010..We attended two different schools.
I have seen first hand how things change..I graduated from The Citadel in the late 70's....My two sons graduated in 2009 and 2010..We attended two different schools.
This is an interesting conversation to have. Would you rather have one championship with every other year mediocre, or no championships but be in contention every other year?
I think if Carolina had won the championship during the Final 4 run I would say I would take that,but since it ended in a loss I'd rather be a consistent tournament team....
I never wanted him hired. But yes, I'd take him back vs Paris.
If thornwell hadn’t gotten sick we could have won the NCI do feel it's important to add..........
The latter you can sell to quality recruits. Telling a recruit that you have been to the tournament the last # of tournaments in a row is a strong selling point. Telling them you won the National Championship 9 years ago, but you haven't made the tournament since that time shows that you have an inconsistent program.
Yep I agree with you. Consistently being good/relevant would be better than one championship with otherwise mediocrity.
Martin should bolt for the broadcast booth. He’s a natural there and has a lot of insights. Something happened after the final 4 run. He has never been nearly as good a coach since.
More time/Take him back? No, because Martin proved for 5 consecutive seasons after the Final Four run, that he could not get the job done. He did not even make the NIT, much less The Big Dance after that. Paris has not yet proven he can nor can't get the job done. Anyone who invests money knows that the best and most successful investors are those who get "confirmations" on investments. You just don't stake your money down on a stock without confirmations. To do so is to play Russian Roulette.
And to be clear, I will not have to be dragged along with you to be critical of Paris if I don't see decent improvement next season. I will join you. Anyone who read my posts on Satterfield the past 2 seasons knows I don't stick my head in the ground when the evidence is clear cut a coach can't get the job done. I just can't today be down on him based on Paris' first year here, especially in light of all the headwinds he faced in year one.
My official position on Paris is: undecided.
I did not see much this year that gave me a lot of confidence he can do the job, but that doesn’t mean he won’t be able to with enough time and the right players.
The bar next year for me is overall close to a .500 record and add three or four SEC wins. I think that is reasonable.
Not sure I follow your confirmation statement, particularly when it comes to stocks. I am an investor and I have never received confirmation prior to purchasing a stock. Sounds like insider trading to me.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. I was a former State Securities Commissioner regulating the sale stocks and bonds. I would never, never advocate using information to buy or sell a stock based on information, not available to the public. EVER!!!
and the beat goes on
and on
and on.....and on.....
the beat of the stick on the now mutilated equine
Didn't start the thread, but I will reply to someone when they take what I say out of context. Now, if we are talking about Muschamp, I'm ready to beat that dead horse all day long.
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I do feel it's important to add..........
The loneliest banner in the world.
Wow....we were playing basketball almost 100 years before Naismith invented it? And we still couldn't win?? Sheesh!
This is a very good argument for consistent dancing, even if you exit the floor somewhat quickly.
A smattering of comments from the UMass basketball forums (the basic takeaway: he gets a pass on his first year, but his antics will get old, and fast, if they don't improve soon):
This is all well documented going back a decade at least. Has previous suspensions for verbal abuse of players.
Seems like Frank is locked in with RJ but anyone else could be gone. Time for him to get “his guys” and implement his brand of basketball.
The AD needs to take a stand and sit him down, if for no other reason than to document that he made the effort.
If anyone spent more than 30 seconds on the google machine when Franks name came to light, NONE of this stuff would be a surprise to ANYONE.
The guy is a ******* maniac on the sidelines - always has been. Way too late to change that now.
I was talking with a very good friend of mine at the game last night who is in a position to hear the words FM has used on the bench this season. From my seat and on TV it was clear how animated he's been on the bench, but I was unaware of the nature of the verbal abuse he laid on the players for all to hear. I've said that I give him a pass for year one...first year, a seemingly inordinate number of injuries, etc., but somebody needs to sit him down and make it clear that his foul mouthed verbal abuse of the players is unacceptable. He's representing my alma mater and I expect more professional conduct from the head of the program.
Name a coach in the Dance, NIT or the other tournament who berates his players in the abusive, obscene way that Frank has?
This is all well documented going back a decade at least. Has previous suspensions for verbal abuse of players.
Seems like Frank is locked in with RJ but anyone else could be gone. Time for him to get “his guys” and implement his brand of basketball.
The AD needs to take a stand and sit him down, if for no other reason than to document that he made the effort.
If anyone spent more than 30 seconds on the google machine when Franks name came to light, NONE of this stuff would be a surprise to ANYONE.
The guy is a ******* maniac on the sidelines - always has been. Way too late to change that now.
I was talking with a very good friend of mine at the game last night who is in a position to hear the words FM has used on the bench this season. From my seat and on TV it was clear how animated he's been on the bench, but I was unaware of the nature of the verbal abuse he laid on the players for all to hear. I've said that I give him a pass for year one...first year, a seemingly inordinate number of injuries, etc., but somebody needs to sit him down and make it clear that his foul mouthed verbal abuse of the players is unacceptable. He's representing my alma mater and I expect more professional conduct from the head of the program.
Name a coach in the Dance, NIT or the other tournament who berates his players in the abusive, obscene way that Frank has?
I did not include it, but one of the comments above included the common qualifier that "unless you're making it to the NCAAT every year, these kinds of antics don't fly"
Dook threatened to leave the ACC over the Grosso incident. Being in the ACC saved Krzyzewski's behind.
I've never seen that mentioned anywhere. Duke ready to leave??? Source to document.
I wouldn't. If we're going to suck in front of an empty arena, I would rather not hear a maniac coach echoing throughout the building.
Same here. Martin did not make even the NIT in his last 5 seasons here. And Paris is 8 years younger. I will take my chances with the younger guy over the less-talented Bobby Knight wannabe.
What coach K did isn't comparable to what FM does. Not even close.
I can't remember the exact page number, but I read it in
J. Samuel Walker. "ACC Basketball: The Story of the Rivalries, Traditions, and Scandals of the First Two Decades of the Atlantic Coast Conference."
IMO, it's required reading for anyone who wants to understand the history of USC athletics and our love/hate relationship with the ACC.
And the biggest difference...Coach K won...a lot. There's a direct relationship between how much on-court antics you can get away with and how much you win. Nobody cares if you're a great teacher and preparing boys for life if you aren't winning. Maybe they should, but they don't.
You're right though. I have a friend who coaches high school basketball and he had the opportunity to attend a Duke practice a few years ago. He said Coach K used blistering language during the practice. He's not that bad in games....except with refs sometimes.
3 times we had a real chance at the title. in the 1930s nearly the whole team caught the flu. In 1970 Roche hurt his ankle and in 2017 Thornwell got sick.
I'm proud to say I was on to the fraud FFF was long before anyone else. Gregg Marshall should've been our coach a long time ago.