OT: Jackson Private Schools

[ZombieKissinger]

Was looking at high school football scores and was wondering what the current state of things were in Jackson. JA seems to have solidly fallen behind MRA plus Hartfield killed them twice this year. Has MRA gradually improved as more people flee Jackson? JA declined for the same reason? How did Hartfield rise up? Why would people choose Hartfield over Prep? Have been out of the state a while and didn’t know how all this happened.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I’ll put it this way:
Hartfield is aTm with rational common sense
Jackson Prep is Alabama after Saban leaves
MRA is Georgia
JA is Ole Miss
St. Joseph’s is Mississippi State
St. Andrew’s is Duke

 

[SouthFarmchicken]

Was looking at high school football scores and was wondering what the current state of things were in Jackson. JA seems to have solidly fallen behind MRA plus Hartfield killed them twice this year. Has MRA gradually improved as more people flee Jackson? JA declined for the same reason? How did Hartfield rise up? Why would people choose Hartfield over Prep? Have been out of the state a while and didn’t know how all this happened.

I’ll keep it simple. Richard Duease was tired of consistently getting beat. So, he decided to recruit. Built a dynasty. Others watched. Became AD at MRA. Recruiting infiltrated all aspects, most high profile would be football. Other schools then had to respond to even stay competitive, now here we are.

As for Hartfield, they have a crappy academic reputation…that’s based on facts. ACT scores this year were lower than NWR. Tuition is way cheaper than Prep or JA to specifically answer your question. They have followed the MRA recruiting marketing strategy very very well.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

I’ll keep it simple. The devil that is Richard Duease (Has never been able to coach a lick) was tired of consistently getting his *** kicked as basketball coach. So, he decided to recruit. Built a dynasty of rolling the ball out on the court and then yelling as acting like he was coaching. Others watched. The devil became AD at MRA. Recruiting infiltrated all aspects, most high profile would be football. Other schools then had to respond to even stay competitive, now here we are.

As for Hartfield, they have a crappy academic reputation…that’s based on facts. ACT scores this year were lower than NWR. Tuition is way cheaper than Prep or JA to specifically answer your question. They have followed the MRA recruiting marketing strategy very very well.

I'd be careful with this post. Some litigious folks out there, and you made some specific allegations

 

[MooseDog]

I played the the "devil" you speak of and thats exactly how I would describe him!

 

[SouthFarmchicken]

I'd be careful with this post. Some litigious folks out there, and you made some specific allegations

It’s public knowledge MRA was recruiting in basketball and then that spread to their entire athletic department, then the other schools responded. It’s not wrong, just a different model. As for Duease, I just remember him mercilessly screaming at his players and know, from college friends, he was not fun to play for. Of course, this was when he was losing.

Also, Hartfield did nothing wrong. In fact, they did the right thing. It’s easier to improve your athletics first, academics should follow. See MRA. They have probably surpassed JA as the number 3 best private school in the state. Not based on academics but based on the complete package. MRA academics have improved tremendously from 20 years ago as well.

The knock on UCS was something Hartfield knew they had to overcome. They are improving tremendously, they are leaps and bounds better than what they were. Hartfield was built on the Christ Covenant model, Christ Covenant has maintained that model, Hartfield has morphed into something different.

 

[PhiDawg]

I'd be careful with this post. Some litigious folks out there, and you made some specific allegations

Not if what he says is true.

 

[MStateDawg]

Why would people choose Hartfield over Prep?

I think a lot of it has to do with geography. Most families who would send their kids to private schools have left Jackson for the suburbs. If you live in Brandon or the reservoir area, Hartfield is easier/closer to get to than Prep. Not to mention they've always had an elementary school (which Prep didn't until recently). So if you send your kid to Hartfield thru 6th grade, are you really going to pull them out and put them in a school that's more expensive and more difficult to get to? Probably not.

 

[GloryDawg]

Prep has down years more less often than up years. Never count Prep out.

 

[SouthFarmchicken]

I think a lot of it has to do with geography. Most families who would send their kids to private schools have left Jackson for the suburbs. If you live in Brandon or the reservoir area, Hartfield is easier/closer to get to than Prep. Not to mention they've always had an elementary school (which Prep didn't until recently). So if you send your kid to Hartfield thru 6th grade, are you really going to pull them out and put them in a school that's more expensive and more difficult to get to? Probably not.

This is true which is why Prep now has an elementary. Someone is gonna get squeezed. Will it be First Pres (probably), Prep or Hartfield. Lakeland drive is a nightmare, Hartfield in the perfect position to capitalize on that.

 

[patdog]

I think a lot of it has to do with geography. Most families who would send their kids to private schools have left Jackson for the suburbs. If you live in Brandon or the reservoir area, Hartfield is easier/closer to get to than Prep. Not to mention they've always had an elementary school (which Prep didn't until recently). So if you send your kid to Hartfield thru 6th grade, are you really going to pull them out and put them in a school that's more expensive and more difficult to get to? Probably not.

Also, I think Hatfield's tuition is about half what Prep's is. JA has got problems because of their location. It's still a top school, just can't attract as many students/athletes. By far, the best private school in the Jackson area, and probably the state, is St Andrew's.

 

[GloryDawg]

Also, I think Hatfield's tuition is about half what Prep's is. JA has got problems because of their location. It's still a top school, just can't attract as many students/athletes. By far, the best private school in the Jackson area, and probably the state, is St Andrew's.

No joke about St Andrew's. It's probably the most expensive but if your kid can graduate from there, they will probably get a free ride in college. It will save you money in the long run.

 

[militarydog]

Was looking at high school football scores and was wondering what the current state of things were in Jackson. JA seems to have solidly fallen behind MRA plus Hartfield killed them twice this year. Has MRA gradually improved as more people flee Jackson? JA declined for the same reason? How did Hartfield rise up? Why would people choose Hartfield over Prep? Have been out of the state a while and didn’t know how all this happened.

It really reflects the population shifts. People are moving out of Jackson at a much more rapid pace. JA still has a decent academic reputation but their school population base is shrinking at a very fast rate. They have a really good situation with Sheffield Drive as many of the families attending live on that street and a couple of adjacent streets. However overall the situation around them is not getting any better.
One school not referenced in your post is First Pres Day School. For most of their history they were a feeder primarily to Jackson Prep. However upon the retirement of their previous head of school that has changed. Most still go on to Prep but the new head of school has ties to MRA as he was previously employed there and his kids attend high school there.
Prep attempted to form a more formal relationship with FPDS to be Prep’s official elementary but it ultimately did not work out. I believe Prep also reached out to JA about combining. This all lead to Prep building their own preschool and elementary. My understanding is they had a waitlist on the preschool. FPDS has the support of their church but they are going to suffer similar to JA with location and their identity.
Prep has a very good academic reputation based generally and with ACTs and National Merit Finalists and with their numbers their sports teams normally have the bodies to find talent and depth.
Hartfield doesn’t have the best academic reputation, especially in regard to ACT and NM. They had a very good year in football and have trended up at times with other teams. The biggest issue they are going to have is sustainably and identity. They are a covenant school but lately they have pushed more their athletics.
MRA has an okay academic reputation. Their biggest asset is their location. Their biggest issue is they are landlocked and there are some amazing public schools in the area, specifically Madison Central and its lower schools. MC has a very good academic reputation, especially with ACT and NM. However they are so big it can be difficult for some very talented athletes to see the field due to numbers.
A few other schools impacting the private schools are St Andrews, Christ Covenant and Pisgah. SA has an outstanding academic reputation and their Ridgeland upper school puts them in a great location. CC is a covenant school and is keeping a few kids that would normally have gone to Prep and JA after junior high. Pisgah is a public school way down Lakeland Drive that’s a throw back school to the 80s and 90s. It is a lot of rural families with a lot of parent involvement. Housing builds are blowing up around it.
Finally St Joe is doing okay. It probably has the best location of the area private schools but hasn’t really grown. Academic reputation is okay but athletics has struggled to get a foothold.
It’s going to be interesting to watch over the next few years as the Jackson Metro can’t support all these academies.

 

[GloryDawg]

I know we are talking private schools, but I have a cousin who graduated from Pearl Highschool. He was their Valedictorian. He got his bachelor's degree in Physic from MC for free. He got his master's degree in Physic from Vanderbilt for free and his PHD from Stanford for free. He worked for NASA while attending Stanford. He's more smarter than I is.

 

[johnson86-1]

No joke about St Andrew's. It's probably the most expensive but if your kid can graduate from there, they will probably get a free ride in college. It will save you money in the long run.

I feel like that's almost certainly not true. The vast majority of scholarship money is going to be based on standardized test scores, and I doubt St. Andrews moves the needle on that compared to Prep or JA and probably not even that much compared to your hartfield and MRAs or your Clinton High, Madison Central, or Germantown. It might make a difference if your child is on some threshold that is significant for scholarship money (not sure where that is now; I'm guessing moving from a 32 to a 34 is a significant difference in the type of money available? That's a complete wag though). So if you live in an area where your choices are Prep or JA and St. Andrews, you're going to spend an extra ~$20k over four years compared to Prep or $~16k over four years compared to JA. Sure, you may get the nod on an extra $20k of scholarships, particularly if you want to go somewhere reasonably selective.

But if you're talking about comparing St. Andrews to a good public school, you're going to pay ~$80k over four years of high school and are very unlikely to recoup that by any increase in scholarship money. You're just spending a **** ton of money to keep your kid around other kids with parents that can and will spend a **** ton of money, sort of a very expensive insurance policy if you think that type of environment will make it less likely for your kid to run off the rails (which seems pretty iffy to me based on my little experience with St. Andrews graduates, but maybe all the ones that aren't 17ups ended up excelling to the point that they are never in the same circles as me).

 

[615dawg]

I’ll put it this way:
Hartfield is aTm with rational common sense
Jackson Prep is Alabama after Saban leaves
MRA is Georgia
JA is Ole Miss
St. Joseph’s is Mississippi State
St. Andrew’s is Duke

This is really good.

Hartfield has gone "All in" for sports. But I can tell you there is a group of parents that are very concerned about how bad the academics have sunk. Hartfield needs those families to not be shopping around.

Christ Covenant has added a high school. I can tell you the people around CCS are taking the Christian aspect of education seriously. We'll add that CCS is Samford in the analogy above. They will not compete at the highest level, but they are committed to Christian education and that is attractive to many families.

 

[Papapat.sixpack]

Oldest son graduated from MRA playing under Forrest Williams and coach Davis. Never could get past Prep and just started to surpass JA during that time. Youngest son graduated from canton academy playing qb when Craig Bowman was OC and won a state championship with an offense putting up ungodly numbers. I knew if Bowman got in a spot and could attract good players consistently he could do the same. JA will get squeezed out because of location and the outlier schools will continue to get better.

 

[retire the banner]

Tri-County is growing at rapid pace as well

 

[patdog]

I know we are talking private schools, but I have a cousin who graduated from Pearl Highschool. He was their Valedictorian. He got his bachelor's degree in Physic from MC for free. He got his master's degree in Physic from Vanderbilt for free and his PHD from Stanford for free. He worked for NASA while attending Stanford. He's more smarter than I is.

There’s a lot of really good public schools in the suburbs. I don’t know why anyone would pay for private school when good public schools are available.

 

[patdog]

I feel like that's almost certainly not true. The vast majority of scholarship money is going to be based on standardized test scores, and I doubt St. Andrews moves the needle on that compared to Prep or JA and probably not even that much compared to your hartfield and MRAs or your Clinton High, Madison Central, or Germantown. It might make a difference if your child is on some threshold that is significant for scholarship money (not sure where that is now; I'm guessing moving from a 32 to a 34 is a significant difference in the type of money available? That's a complete wag though). So if you live in an area where your choices are Prep or JA and St. Andrews, you're going to spend an extra ~$20k over four years compared to Prep or $~16k over four years compared to JA. Sure, you may get the nod on an extra $20k of scholarships, particularly if you want to go somewhere reasonably selective.

But if you're talking about comparing St. Andrews to a good public school, you're going to pay ~$80k over four years of high school and are very unlikely to recoup that by any increase in scholarship money. You're just spending a **** ton of money to keep your kid around other kids with parents that can and will spend a **** ton of money, sort of a very expensive insurance policy if you think that type of environment will make it less likely for your kid to run off the rails (which seems pretty iffy to me based on my little experience with St. Andrews graduates, but maybe all the ones that aren't 17ups ended up excelling to the point that they are never in the same circles as me).

The difference is if you want to get into an elite academic college (Stanford, Duke, Harvard, etc.), you’re gonna have a huge leg up if you graduate from St Andrews over any of the other schools.

 

[FreeDawg]

I think you said it in your post regarding the changing demo in the areas around the schools. Prep will always be prep because it’s in a good location. JA and surrounding areas have greatly & rapidly declined the last 25 years. Inversely, 25 years ago MRA was a bit of a joke. All the “cool” kids & athletes went to MC even if the family had private school money. MRA was a joke academically as well 25 years ago. Nothing but respect for MRA admin as they really stepped up everything from academics & sports. A bunch of my peers who grew up at JA & MC send their kids to MRA. It’s a great school now. Their only issue is room to grow. If they had more land they’d overtake Prep in another decade. While Prep & MRA battle it out for best all-around private school, Saint Andrew’s is still the academic Ivy League. Even Tri County & Canton Academy, which were basically dying schools 25 years ago, are on a major upswing.

While we’re here let me drop another prediction about MC & Germantown. GHS will overtake MC in size, money, & athletics in the next 10-20 years.

 

[johnson86-1]

The difference is if you want to get into an elite academic college (Stanford, Duke, Harvard, etc.), you’re gonna have a huge leg up if you graduate from St Andrews over any of the other schools.

Yea, I don't know about how much that helps. I was just commenting on the scholarship money and the ability for St. Andrews to pay for itself. I would have guessed that these days schools like that would prefer a public school graduate to a St. Andrews graduate if the resumes are otherwise roughly equal, but that's just a guess.

Just for reference the top 3 ACT scores in the state 2023 graduates (at least those that had their top score by December of 2022) were from Clinton, Germantown, and Biloxi. https://msmec.com/star-program/
I'm assuming Prep, St. Andrews, and JA would have had a representative in the remainder of the top 20 but the link is broken.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I'd be careful with this post. Some litigious folks out there, and you made some specific allegations

"The people vs SouthFarmChicken, all rise..."

 

[SteelCurtain74]

I think a lot of it has to do with geography. Most families who would send their kids to private schools have left Jackson for the suburbs. If you live in Brandon or the reservoir area, Hartfield is easier/closer to get to than Prep. Not to mention they've always had an elementary school (which Prep didn't until recently). So, if you send your kid to Hartfield thru 6th grade, are you really going to pull them out and put them in a school that's more expensive and more difficult to get to? Probably not.

Not necessarily easier to get to Hartfield if you live at the Reservoir. Also take into consideration Hartfield has two campuses. K3 - 1st is over by Pinelake and 2nd -12th is on the corner of Luckney and Lakeland. If you have kids at both campuses, it's a bit of a hassle picking them up each day. I live at the Reservoir, and I have one at Prep and one at FPDS, who will be at Prep next year. It is virtually the same amount of time to get to Hartfield as it is Prep from me. You can add MRA as equidistant to both of those schools from where I live.

In regard to FPDS, I think it will be gradually affected going forward which is why they now take kids 6 months to 6th grade. The potential gradual decline is in part due to its location, but they've also lost a lot of good teachers to Prep and MRA.

JA's location could be an issue for them going forward which is why they added a K2 program this year. I've also heard from some JA parents that the new leadership there has rubbed some people the wrong way. I know there are a few kids who transferred from JA to Prep, who are in my son's class, due to that reason.

Hartfield's academics are an issue for several families who have kids there. I know a couple of families who are now sending their kids to Pisgah which seems to be gaining a lot of popularity with the Reservoir/Brandon crowd.

 

[BioChemDawg]

It's wild how fast the private school landscape has changed just in the last decade. I'm interested to see if FPDS and Christ Covenant end up making some sort of agreement in the future. Both are tied to PCA churches, so would make sense. There was a lot of fall out between FPDS/Prep when Prep tried to annex FPDS.

Here's my assessment of the major private schools in their current state. As a disclaimer, I am a Prep alum, so naturally have some bias there.

St. Andrew's - Probably the best academically, but not really sure how much better than a Prep/MRA. Not the school to go to for athletics.
JA - Seems to be on the decline. Location is an issue and they don't outperform the other private schools in any area.
MRA - athletics have taken a huge step forward in the last 10 years and appears academics are following. Hindered by the fact that Madison public schools are very good overall.
Hartfield - Great athletics, generally poor academics. May follow the MRA roadmap where academics improve later. Cheaper tuition than many competitors, especially Prep.
Jackson Prep - Even trying to take my bias out of it, I think Prep is still the most well rounded private school in the area. Very good academics and athletics. They benefit from poor Jackson public schools, but will be interesting to see how they adapt as more families move out of Jackson and opt for MRA/Hartfield due to proximity.

 

[Big Sheep81]

What's a "covenant" school? How is that different from a private school?

 

[Faustdog]

Not necessarily easier to get to Hartfield if you live at the Reservoir. Also take into consideration Hartfield has two campuses. K3 - 1st is over by Pinelake and 2nd -12th is on the corner of Luckney and Lakeland. If you have kids at both campuses, it's a bit of a hassle picking them up each day. I live at the Reservoir, and I have one at Prep and one at FPDS, who will be at Prep next year. It is virtually the same amount of time to get to Hartfield as it is Prep from me. You can add MRA as equidistant to both of those schools from where I live.

In regard to FPDS, I think it will be gradually affected going forward which is why they now take kids 6 months to 6th grade. The potential gradual decline is in part due to its location, but they've also lost a lot of good teachers to Prep and MRA.

JA's location could be an issue for them going forward which is why they added a K2 program this year. I've also heard from some JA parents that the new leadership there has rubbed some people the wrong way. I know there are a few kids who transferred from JA to Prep, who are in my son's class, due to that reason.

Hartfield's academics are an issue for several families who have kids there. I know a couple of families who are now sending their kids to Pisgah which seems to be gaining a lot of popularity with the Reservoir/Brandon crowd.

I was surprised at how few kids and teachers left FPDS for Prep. There just haven't been many. And just from talking to other parents it doesn't seem like there are going to be many more next year. You're going to lose some of the kids who have older siblings already at Prep of course, and over time there will be Rankin County kids that start at Prep.

Elementary school is a hard thing to get right. It has been great model for a long time having a school entirely dedicated to the lower grades.

Someone earlier in the thread posted that FPDS kids weren't funneling directly to Prep anymore. That may change, but I'd bet that now it's still 90%+ that do.

 

[GloryDawg]

There’s a lot of really good public schools in the suburbs. I don’t know why anyone would pay for private school when good public schools are available.

Both mine went to Brandon High School. My daughter is finishing her last year home schooling online. She was not happy and stopped doing good. That was a good decision. I wish she would have stayed but even the counselor thought it was a good idea.

 

[militarydog]

What's a "covenant" school? How is that different from a private school?

Generally a covenant Christian school binds parents, students, and the school with a pledge to educate through a biblical worldview. Most covenant Christian schools require at least one parent to be a professing Christian.

 

[Duke Humphrey]

While we’re here let me drop another prediction about MC & Germantown. GHS will overtake MC in size, money, & athletics in the next 10-20 years.

What are chances they create another HS before GHS overtakes MC? Will it be like Desoto and a HS pop up on every corner

 

[militarydog]

What are chances they create another HS before GHS overtakes MC? Will it be like Desoto and a HS pop up on every corner

I wouldn’t be surprised if another one didn’t form closer to Flora. It is amazing the number of people out that way.

 

[Papapat.sixpack]

Oldest son graduated from MRA playing under Forrest Williams and coach Davis. Never could get past Prep and just started to surpass JA during that time. Youngest son graduated from canton academy playing qb when Craig Bowman was OC and won a state championship with an offense putting up ungodly numbers. I knew if Bowman got in a spot and could attract good players consistently he could do the same. JA will get squeezed out because of location and the outlier schools will continue to get better.

With all that said my youngest started out at MRA, but he’s dyslexic and MRA didn’t have a program suited for that at the time and canton academy did. Turned out to be a great move with the smaller class size and he loved it.

 

[615dawg]

What's a "covenant" school? How is that different from a private school?

The parents have to sign an agreement, a covenant, that they will nurture their children in a Christian home. They usually have to subscribe to the Apostle's Creed as well.

 

[615dawg]

I wouldn’t be surprised if another one didn’t form closer to Flora. It is amazing the number of people out that way.

It would be hard to form another school in Madison County that would meet the Civil Rights Act requirements for Mississippi school districts.

I've said before that Canton Academy opening a campus in Gluckstadt would be the smartest thing they could do. There are a lot of unhappy parents in Germantown but there are no good options.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Richard Duease was tired of consistently getting beat. So, he decided to recruit. Built a dynasty. Others watched. Became AD at MRA. Recruiting infiltrated all aspects, most high profile would be football. Other schools then had to respond to even stay competitive, now here we are.

Just like most of the public suburb schools. Then people complain about the diversity.

What gets me, is recruit and compete against what? The high level of academy ball is like 4 teams. What have you really won? That's like a travel ball tournament.

Now that I think about it, that sums up MS people very well, the way they compete and eat each other. Those Hartfield people are definitely proud to have that sticker on their SUV now that they won a state title, when they pull up to the Flowood baseball fields for little Johnny's next ring ceremony.

 

[SouthFarmchicken]

Generally a covenant Christian school binds parents, students, and the school with a pledge to educate through a biblical worldview. Most covenant Christian schools require at least one parent to be a professing Christian.

Correct.

FPDS is not a covenant school, just as an example. I forget the term but they are a “missionary school” not the correct term. A Muslim or Atheist couple can send their kids to FPDS. Not Christ Covenant.

Hartfield is also a covenant school in name, but way way different from Christ covenant.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Correct.

FPDS is not a covenant school, just as an example. I forget the term but they are a “missionary school” not the correct term. A Muslim or Atheist couple can send their kids to FPDS. Not Christ Covenant.

Hartfield is also a covenant school in name, but way way different from Christ covenant.

Hartfield is Rankin County Christian Culture, mane.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

I was surprised at how few kids and teachers left FPDS for Prep. There just haven't been many. And just from talking to other parents it doesn't seem like there are going to be many more next year. You're going to lose some of the kids who have older siblings already at Prep of course, and over time there will be Rankin County kids that start at Prep.

Elementary school is a hard thing to get right. It has been great model for a long time having a school entirely dedicated to the lower grades.

Someone earlier in the thread posted that FPDS kids weren't funneling directly to Prep anymore. That may change, but I'd bet that now it's still 90%+ that do.

You are correct in your assessment. I don't believe FPDS will see a lot leave with this year's 5th grade class. I think where the numbers will start thinning out would be in the lower grades especially in K3/K4/K5. I know with my son's graduating class from FPDS, all but 3 of those kids went to Prep. I think Prep will get the majority of FPDS kids but maybe not to the degree as they did before.

With that said, all of these schools do have a capacity so it's not like you can just get into any school whenever you like, especially for elementary school. Hartfield, for example, has tried to limit each grade to 75+/- kids. With them building the 7th and 8th grade building, I've been told that number per grade will approach closer to 100. Prep intentionally limited their space in the lower school this year, but my understanding is that the capacity will increase next year. Christ Covenant has come out with plans to expand their campus as well so in theory their capacity will increase.

 

[Boom Boom]

As for Hartfield, they have a crappy academic reputation…that’s based on facts. ACT scores this year were lower than NWR.

That's probably because the Pinelake mentality doesn't lend itself to academic achievement....

[Ducks]

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Just like most of the public suburb schools. Then people complain about the diversity.

What gets me, is recruit and compete against what? The high level of academy ball is like 4 teams. What have you really won? That's like a travel ball tournament.

Now that I think about it, that sums up MS people very well, the way they compete and eat each other. Those Hartfield people are definitely proud to have that sticker on their SUV now that they won a state title, when they pull up to the Flowood baseball fields for little Johnny's next ring ceremony.

There's a whole lotta big fish/small pond pride in this state. Local and state politics is quite the spectacle, but I suspect that the voracity of the fighting among those involved is likely proportionate to the $$$ they can directly or indirectly remand from where it belongs into their pockets.