OT: Little League Baseball

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

My 12 y/o son decided he wanted to try baseball for the first time. So we sign him up. Just finished his second practice tonight. After watching the first two my question is do all 12 y/o teams give you Forest Whitaker eye watching them or did his team happen to get everybody that has no clue just what a baseball is? I'm talking forgetting to cover a base, throws not within 10' of where it should go, swinging at balls over head eye, etc etc.

 

[mdm3045]

This is what rec ball has become. Travel/tournament ball has become so popular that rec ball is basically left with only the kids that are new to playing the game and/or very un-athletic kids.

 

[kired]

My son is in 11-12 this year (first year in that age group, he’s 11). We’ve only ever played park & rec. I swear somehow, the overall skill level of the teams gets worse every year after 7-8 y/o. My guess is the best players move on to travel ball and quit park & rec. I guarantee you my other sons 8 year old team could hang with the 11-12 team.

 

[missouridawg]

I’m coaching a 7-8 year old machine pitch team and I’m not sure my heart is going make it through the season. My guys just can’t 17ing hit. I got 3 players I can count on. I got like 6 who have a good day if they’re 1 for 3 and then 2 who won’t even hit a foul tip this year.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

This thread makes me feel better. My 9yo has never expressed interest in playing baseball until this year. I’ve been afraid he’ll be the only terrible one on the team. Thanks for cheering me up.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

This thread makes me feel better. My 9yo has never expressed interest in playing baseball until this year. I’ve been afraid he’ll be the only terrible one on the team. Thanks for cheering me up.

That's where I was when he said he wanted to play. I can dare say he's at worst middle of the pack on this team. At least half of them I don't think have seen a baseball before last week.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

I mean he’s pretty good at tennis and he’s fast, so if he can make contact with a one handed swing, he’s got a good chance to beat it out.

 

[missouridawg]

I mean he’s pretty good at tennis and he’s fast, so if he can make contact with a one handed swing, he’s got a good chance to beat it out.

If he ain’t scared of the ball he will be fine. I’ve come to learn that kids who are scared of the ball rarely get cured of that.

When he struggles at hitting, DM and I can tell you what I did that made my 7 year old go from liability to asset in less than a week of backyard work.

 

[onewoof]

Celebrate the little victories of the guys that are not that athletic. I coached for several years on my son's rec league teams and it's really more about the relationships than the W's.

Travel ball is it's on burden on the family chaos and time. Great if you love it. I'm not sure it's the most healthy thing, that's just my opinion. We did that one summer and it was dysfunctional and expensive. We ended up hating it and the parents made it painful.

Looking back what I liked most was just catching and throwing with my son. That's about it.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

My son is in 11-12 this year (first year in that age group, he’s 11). We’ve only ever played park & rec. I swear somehow, the overall skill level of the teams gets worse every year after 7-8 y/o. My guess is the best players move on to travel ball and quit park & rec. I guarantee you my other sons 8 year old team could hang with the 11-12 team.

Back when my son in this age group we took everyone left over after All Stars raided any of the "better" players and we tried something pretty cool. We took the leftover kids and divided them up into about 4 new teams so vacations didn't screw everything up. We would play all four teams in games a couple of days a week We made things really laid back and during the game all the coaches were on the field umpiring but also able to help all the players learn in a game situation. Three outs (most of the time) and no score keeping. We let them try any position they wanted to until everyone figured out the places where they best belonged. It really helped them learn because of the relaxed setting and they would get tons of actual playing time. We helped make some pretty good players when they got older or they at least learned enough to be able to play well enough to enjoy the game when they got older We played until fall sports. I don't know if they kept having this program but when they got older the some of the local high school coaches were happy at least some of players they got were somewhat solid with their fundamentals and some experience/knowledge with more than one position. I know it changed the game for my son.

 

[bolddogge]

It's the video games. Kids these days having too much screen time and not enough back yard time.
Now get off my lawn.

 

[Smoked Toag]

It's always been that way, except now the top half of players are gone. It's worse at 9-10, obviously because they are just learning to pitch. At least at 11-12 they've gotten SOME level of brains and coordination, even if they've never seriously played.

I've found that our local rec league isn't exactly awful. There's some talented players, and those players will generally do the pitching. They just need to play more games. Needs to be a middle ground between rec and travel, at least around here.

 

[NWADawg]

It's the video games. Kids these days having too much screen time and not enough back yard time.
Now get off my lawn.

Truth in jest. I spend a lot of hours as a kid tossing up pebbles from the side of the road and swinging at/hitting them with old broom handles. Thought I was just passing time. Had no idea how much I was helping my game.

 

[Smoked Toag]

Back when my son in this age group we took everyone left over after All Stars raided any of the "better" players and we tried something pretty cool. We too the leftover kids and divided them up into about 4 new teams so vacations didn't screw everything up. We would play all four teams in games a couple of days a week We made things really laid back and during the game all the coaches were on the field umpiring but also able to help all the players learn in a game situation. Three outs (most of the time) and no score keeping. We let them try any position they wanted to until everyone figured out the places where they best belonged. It really helped them learn because of the relaxed setting and they would get tons of actual playing time. We helped make some pretty good players when they got older or they at least learned enough to be able to play well enough to enjoy the game when they got older We played until fall sports. I don't know if they kept having this program but when they got older the some of the local high school coaches were happy at least some of players they got were somewhat solid with their fundamentals and some experience/knowledge with more than one position. I know it changed the game for my son.

^^^^ THIS is the way it should have gone. Everybody plays rec ball (and together) for a few months. Then you can form some All-Star teams (or teams like you said) come June and July. Kids stay engaged, baseball stays popular.

That being said, I can understand why travel ball become the norm. It's not all the fault of the best players breaking away. It was the middle class players, who maybe didn't make the All-Star team, but still wanted to play a little more, but had no option. Instead of just forming additional All-Star teams after rec, we end up forming these teams to play year round. A lot of that too was due to the politics of rec ball, which still exist today, even in the watered down version.

We really need some adults in charge of these leagues and tournaments, not a bunch of ex-JUCO burnouts who shave their arms and are just there to draw a check or tournament fee.

 

[The Peeper]

12 is late to start in my opinion. I started at age 5 and by 12 was pretty damn good. There was no travel ball WAY back then, just all stars. But we had "semi pro" teams that were current college players home for the summer and old dudes that just couldn't give it up (an orthopedists dream). Wasn't uncommon to see the old dudes all putting a couple Miller Pony's in their back pockets on the way out of the dugout to take the field every inning

 

[johnson86-1]

Back when my son in this age group we took everyone left over after All Stars raided any of the "better" players and we tried something pretty cool. We too the leftover kids and divided them up into about 4 new teams so vacations didn't screw everything up. We would play all four teams in games a couple of days a week We made things really laid back and during the game all the coaches were on the field umpiring but also able to help all the players learn in a game situation. Three outs (most of the time) and no score keeping. We let them try any position they wanted to until everyone figured out the places where they best belonged. It really helped them learn because of the relaxed setting and they would get tons of actual playing time. We helped make some pretty good players when they got older or they at least learned enough to be able to play well enough to enjoy the game when they got older We played until fall sports. I don't know if they kept having this program but when they got older the some of the local high school coaches were happy at least some of players they got were somewhat solid with their fundamentals and some experience/knowledge with more than one position. I know it changed the game for my son.

I've been trying to encourage our rec league to do something similar (without being vocal enough to be asked to get involved since I spend enough time on soccer). Our rec baseball league has fallen apart after the 9-10 age group and there's a good chance the 9-10 group is going to fall apart in the next couple of years. One of the better rec soccer leagues growing up kept their rec league strong by organizing travel teams out of rec league. Rec teams are priority in rec season. Late in the rec league they would start setting up travel teams and would fill out as many as they could. I think they only ended up with an A and a B team. Our baseball team could easily fill out 4 teams to play an extra 4 to 6 tournaments after rec league unless people just refused to play on the C and D teams because they get discouraged and/or decide that's a clue that their son should focus his effort elsewhere.

Our soccer league has started doing something exactly like what you described. They pretty much will take any players that want to play (although a few can get left out if the numbers don't work out for teams; i.e., if 4 teams is 32 players and 5 teams are 40, if they have 35 players, 3 will not make the cut). That's not really driven by travel ball though. Soccer is not as big as baseball here so people mostly don't play travel soccer unless they are good, but we have a pretty parasitic travel baseball environment where lots of marginal players pay a lot of money to be able to say they play travel ball.

 

[johnson86-1]

I’m coaching a 7-8 year old machine pitch team and I’m not sure my heart is going make it through the season. My guys just can’t 17ing hit. I got 3 players I can count on. I got like 6 who have a good day if they’re 1 for 3 and then 2 who won’t even hit a foul tip this year.

How fast are the machine pitches throwing?

We have coach pitch at 7-8 and I think a machine pitch would be better because most of our coaches can't throw 17ing strikes because it's so hard to keep the speed low and be accurate (I think our pitching mound is too close; probably would be better if they pitched from a few more steps back to give the batters time to pick up the ball and throw it a little harder). But it's pretty damn funny to know you're going to lose because your best pitching coach is on vacation and the players don't do well picking out the 2 good pitches out of 5 that the other coaches can throw.

 

[Smoked Toag]

How fast are the machine pitches throwing?

We have coach pitch at 7-8 and I think a machine pitch would be better because most of our coaches can't throw 17ing strikes because it's so hard to keep the speed low and be accurate (I think our pitching mound is too close; probably would be better if they pitched from a few more steps back to give the batters time to pick up the ball and throw it a little harder). But it's pretty damn funny to know you're going to lose because your best pitching coach is on vacation and the players don't do well picking out the 2 good pitches out of 5 that the other coaches can throw.

I tried to take over pitching duties from our head coach a few years ago, because the kids raked off me in practice. He wouldn't listen. I guess he preferred to strike our kids out with his left handed sliders that were consistently low.

It was then that I began to realize that some of these guys don't really think things through.....and it was time to be head coach and start inserting myself in the important decisions.

 

[Awwhellnaw]

My son is 8 and we joined a travel ball team in January. I had many, many reservations on doing it (time, money, crazy *** parents, burning out my son, etc.). But it came down to rec ball becoming a waste of my son’s time and my time. I’m by no means saying my kid is going to be a pro one day (that mindset is ridiculous) but he is an athlete and has a lot of potential. We needed to get him in the hands of someone who could fine tune him. I’m not by any stretch a baseball coach. And he needed to play with other kids on so “on his level”.

All that being said, it has been a good move overall. He loves it and is playing with some of his longtime friends. The coach has really done a nice job with the team. We see progress every week.

My biggest fear is he gets burnt out. That’s what happened to me growing up. If we need to take a season off at any point, we will. But as long as he is enjoying it, it’s a good investment as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Smoked Toag]

12 is late to start in my opinion. I started at age 5 and by 12 was pretty damn good. There was no travel ball WAY back then, just all stars. But we had "semi pro" teams that were current college players home for the summer and old dudes that just couldn't give it up (an orthopedists dream). Wasn't uncommon to see the old dudes all putting a couple Miller Pony's in their back pockets on the way out of the dugout to take the field every inning

If they have any athletic ability they can catch up and be a decent player in less than a year. I personally think 5 is too early. I do tend to agree that 12 is a 'little' late, but again, all depends on the ability and how much a parent can teach them at home. And maturity is good for early baseball, the kids that don't pay attention well unfortunately get weeded out, even if they have ability. And the kids at the top of the age bracket are usually better too, even if less athletic, because of maturity.

The problem is getting left behind in the hivemind.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

12 is late to start in my opinion. I started at age 5 and by 12 was pretty damn good. There was no travel ball WAY back then, just all stars. But we had "semi pro" teams that were current college players home for the summer and old dudes that just couldn't give it up (an orthopedists dream). Wasn't uncommon to see the old dudes all putting a couple Miller Pony's in their back pockets on the way out of the dugout to take the field every inning

He never showed any interest until 12, but now he is wanting to play all of the sports. Played football last year and will be again next year, and was just informed he also wants to try basketball. If he wants to try to play all of these sports I'm sure not going to tell him no because he didn't start out when all of the others did. He knows he isn't the best on the team, but he's having fun and that is all he is really worried about.

 

[bsquared24]

And here I am thinking that my just turned 9yo is done with baseball because he doesn't want to do it anymore. He started at 4 and is better than average but not the best on his team, but cutting two different season short because of a broken finger and a broken ankle has him tainted. He still plays football and playground basketball so I'm not worried about him being slave to the xbox, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not a bit heartbroken about his lack of baseball enthusiasm. Our local rec league was gutted by travelball going from coach pitch to kid pitch and it definitely made it strange transition. Maybe next year ...

 

[missouridawg]

How fast are the machine pitches throwing?

We have coach pitch at 7-8 and I think a machine pitch would be better because most of our coaches can't throw 17ing strikes because it's so hard to keep the speed low and be accurate (I think our pitching mound is too close; probably would be better if they pitched from a few more steps back to give the batters time to pick up the ball and throw it a little harder). But it's pretty damn funny to know you're going to lose because your best pitching coach is on vacation and the players don't do well picking out the 2 good pitches out of 5 that the other coaches can throw.

Our league was split into two divisions. The better kids in Red hit off 45 mph. I'm coaching in White at 42 mph.

After doing coach pitch with 6 year old's last year, I'm of the opinion that the kids at this age can just be so far apart from a natural talent standpoint that there isn't a one size fits all solution. I have two 7 year olds right now who are hitting the machine just fine, but need to get more consistent. I also have two 7 year olds who probably still need to be in TBall for a year and then coach pitch as an 8 year old. These two kids just ain't even close to being able to hit the machine right now.

I also currently coach a TBall team (5U) and I have two 5 year olds who I would draft in TBall before these two 7 year olds that I coach in machine pitch.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

And here I am thinking that my just turned 9yo is done with baseball because he doesn't want to do it anymore. He started at 4 and is better than average but not the best on his team, but cutting two different season short because of a broken finger and a broken ankle has him tainted. He still plays football and playground basketball so I'm not worried about him being slave to the xbox, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not a bit heartbroken about his lack of baseball enthusiasm. Our local rec league was gutted by travelball going from coach pitch to kid pitch and it definitely made it strange transition. Maybe next year ...

Get him to the Dude for a game. I'll be honest I think that is what got my son interested. For a few games last year I got some tickets off stubhub and we went and he had a blast. He's already telling me when we're out in the yard throwing or after a practice he has to get better if he is going to play at MSU when he gets to college.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Colleges start noticing players at 14 years old nowadays.. one of the local kids just turned 15 and is 6’6 and is already drawing interest. He will go D1 if his HS coach doesnt ruin him.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Funny how different people are. I celebrated every time my boys dropped a sport. I was happy to finally whittle it down to one thing that they really enjoyed. My opinion is probably colored by the first year of kid pitch being their last year to play. That was miserable experience.

 

[johnson86-1]

Our league was split into two divisions. The better kids in Red hit off 45 mph. I'm coaching in White at 42 mph.

After doing coach pitch with 6 year old's last year, I'm of the opinion that the kids at this age can just be so far apart from a natural talent standpoint that there isn't a one size fits all solution. I have two 7 year olds right now who are hitting the machine just fine, but need to get more consistent. I also have two 7 year olds who probably still need to be in TBall for a year and then coach pitch as an 8 year old. These two kids just ain't even close to being able to hit the machine right now.

I also currently coach a TBall team (5U) and I have two 5 year olds who I would draft in TBall before these two 7 year olds that I coach in machine pitch.

I just realized I don't have a good idea of what a 45mph pitch looks like. I am guessing our coaches throw in the high 20's, low 30's? I'm trying to equate it to a car driving by. Maybe it's faster than that and I'm just a bad judge. I wonder how much better they would be prepared for kid pitch if they used a pitching machine instead of coach pitch.

 

[jdbulldog]

Colleges start noticing players at 14 years old nowadays.. one of the local kids just turned 15 and is 6’6 and is already drawing interest. He will go D1 if his HS coach doesnt ruin him.

In a lot of cases that is a big “IF”.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

^^^^ THIS is the way it should have gone. Everybody plays rec ball (and together) for a few months. Then you can form some All-Star teams (or teams like you said) come June and July. Kids stay engaged, baseball stays popular.

That being said, I can understand why travel ball become the norm. It's not all the fault of the best players breaking away. It was the middle class players, who maybe didn't make the All-Star team, but still wanted to play a little more, but had no option. Instead of just forming additional All-Star teams after rec, we end up forming these teams to play year round. A lot of that too was due to the politics of rec ball, which still exist today, even in the watered down version.

We really need some adults in charge of these leagues and tournaments, not a bunch of ex-JUCO burnouts who shave their arms and are just there to draw a check or tournament fee.

We had so much fun and we created relationships with the players that lasted through high school. We may not have made MLB players but we had a lot of fun for players and coaches. It also let coaches work with their strengths for teaching I worked with pitchers and catchers. Another guy was great with hitters. Another with infielders and so forth. It was the best most laid back experience I ever had in all my 20+years of volunteer coaching with youth football, baseball and girls soft pitch softball.

ETA - the players parents all loved this time and had so much fun watching the kids play within this format. They got to cheer for every individual players instead of a team. I think travel ball killed rec sports probably in as well we don't have any programs like this anymore it's a shame.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

He never showed any interest until 12, but now he is wanting to play all of the sports. Played football last year and will be again next year, and was just informed he also wants to try basketball. If he wants to try to play all of these sports I'm sure not going to tell him no because he didn't start out when all of the others did. He knows he isn't the best on the team, but he's having fun and that is all he is really worried about.

Let him try them all. It's not a matter of how good he is it's a matter how much fun he has. As a father of a son who got burned out on baseball in high school I can tell you it's better when it's just about having fun.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I’m coaching a 7-8 year old machine pitch team and I’m not sure my heart is going make it through the season. My guys just can’t 17ing hit. I got 3 players I can count on. I got like 6 who have a good day if they’re 1 for 3 and then 2 who won’t even hit a foul tip this year.

Do you have control of the speed? Can't you start a little slower and ramp them up?