OT: One more interesting Visual Capitalist graph: working hours by country

[horshack.sixpack]

If you've ever been on a project with Germans, you know they simply disappear for weeks on end at times...



https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-average-working-hours-by-country/

 

[Anon1704414204]

Mexico & Greece too high. Japan & Germany too low.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Mexico & Greece too high. Japan & Germany too low.

I was surprised that the US was that low. I would have guessed that we would be a bit higher. Greece has to suck because their economy is crap and you have to work non-stop; perhaps there is correlation/multiple jobs involved? I thought the note about US not having any mandated time off was interesting as well. I was not aware. The number of years I had to work to get to 4 weeks of vacation is tragic only to find out that I'm too busy to actually use it all...

 

[GloryDawg]

I was surprised that the US was that low. I would have guessed that we would be a bit higher. Greece has to suck because their economy is crap and you have to work non-stop; perhaps there is correlation/multiple jobs involved? I thought the note about US not having any mandated time off was interesting as well. I was not aware. The number of years I had to work to get to 4 weeks of vacation is tragic only to find out that I'm too busy to actually use it all...

40 hours a week times 52 weeks minus two weeks for vacation is 2000 hours. That simple math. You are correct. We are missing something in those numbers.

 

[stateu1]

40 hours a week times 52 weeks minus two weeks for vacation is 2000 hours. That simple math. You are correct. We are missing something in those numbers.

Must take into account part time folks??

 

[horshack.sixpack]

40 hours a week times 52 weeks minus two weeks for vacation is 2000 hours. That simple math. You are correct. We are missing something in those numbers.

2 things: 1) They are good for comparative because whatever the calc, it's the same one for each country and 2) I don't think that we are missing anything the note in the article indicates that it is part and full time that make up the "per person".

 

[johnson86-1]

2 things: 1) They are good for comparative because whatever the calc, it's the same one for each country and 2) I don't think that we are missing anything the note in the article indicates that it is part and full time that make up the "per person".

I don't know. I think dividing it by the number of people in employment means that the number could be greatly impacted by how public benefits are structured. I am guessing we have more people that show up as nominally in the work force barely working hours because we have relatively work requirements for welfare than other countries, so could that be driving our average down?

I also think the method for gathering data is likely going to be inconsistent across countries. How are they estimating hours worked by salaried workers? If they are just asking workers, I could easily see there being cultural differences that impact self-reporting. Are there cultures that pride being workaholics that would tend to claim more hours? Are there just different customers regarding how hours are accounted for? I think a lot of salaried workers in the US would say they work 40 hours a week, even though they in reality work closer to 45, because they are expected to more or less clock in and clock out like hourly workers, and by the time you throw in some cushion on the beginning and end of work and on any lunch break. But I've also heard people talk about working 60 hours a week and they just mean time away from home, including the commute and lunch break. Are there countries that tend to report working hours like that?

If you're not just asking workers, where would you get the data? I can't imagine there is good data on that that is consistent across countries?

And I don't know if I've just always been around people prejudiced against Greece and/or Greek people, but I have never heard anything that would make me put them at the top of EU countries as far as hard working, much less ahead of South Koreans. Is everybody around me secretly a, I don't know what to call them, anti-helenists unfairly maligning the Greeks as layabouts?

 

[DerHntr]

The Germany number is wild in comparison to the countries at the top.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

I know a Greek guy. This chart is completely bogus. **

 

[Anon1704414204]

I was surprised that the US was that low. I would have guessed that we would be a bit higher. Greece has to suck because their economy is crap and you have to work non-stop; perhaps there is correlation/multiple jobs involved? I thought the note about US not having any mandated time off was interesting as well. I was not aware. The number of years I had to work to get to 4 weeks of vacation is tragic only to find out that I'm too busy to actually use it all...

I'd be interested in knowing what % of American full time workers have no paid vacation time. What's the % that work for min wage? 1 or 2 %? Often times things are not as dire as folks say.

 

[aTotal360]

I'm not believing the US is that low. And European countries don't work nearly that much. Germany being that low does not surprise me at all.

 

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Don't forget about national holidays, even Mexico has 7 legal holidays that require paid time off. In many countries holiday time is separate from paid leave (vacation). This is one of those "statistic" charts that because of the nature of the data can easily be made bias or flawed, intentionally or not.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

The Germany number is wild in comparison to the countries the top.

By law they get 6 weeks off each year.

 

[Mjoelner]

The company that Hugh's Burner Phone and I work for has major ties to Germany and France and both take off the entire month of August every year. Also, back in 2014 I was sent to France for training for 85 days and the entire time I was there we never worked a Friday and sometimes had 4-day weekends. I'm surprised that Germany is that low and they they are below France.

In our meetings at work, I rarely hear "Germany is off today so I can't get that done" whereas I hear "France is off for the next two days so it'll be next week before we can get up with them." several times a month.

 

[Dawgbite]

I used to use a lot of German industrial equipment that required yearly service from German techs. I always scheduled them for somewhere from mid July to early September. We were a non air conditioned workplace. It was just personal satisfaction for me and Justice for those no phone answering , no email returned, always on vacation SOBs.

 

[GloryDawg]

Must take into account part time folks??

ON the flip side many of those part time are second jobs.

 

[DerHntr]

By law they get 6 weeks off each year.

Incredible. I knew Europe was at 4 weeks. 6 is a ton of time off.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I was surprised that the US was that low. I would have guessed that we would be a bit higher. Greece has to suck because their economy is crap and you have to work non-stop; perhaps there is correlation/multiple jobs involved? I thought the note about US not having any mandated time off was interesting as well. I was not aware. The number of years I had to work to get to 4 weeks of vacation is tragic only to find out that I'm too busy to actually use it all...

My surprise is that the US & Australia is so close together.

I was in a group tour of Europe with a bunch of Aussies who were shocked to see an American simply because they’ve heard horror stories about how we don’t take a lot of time off work.

 

[Perd Hapley]

40 hours a week times 52 weeks minus two weeks for vacation is 2000 hours. That simple math. You are correct. We are missing something in those numbers.

Minus 2 weeks for vacation?

“Holiday” isn’t only PTO, it’s also actual holidays. My company has 15-16 planned paid holidays per year. Starting PTO is 2 weeks, but most people with 5+ years have 3-4 weeks. So its not “minus 2 weeks”, its more like “minus 6-7 weeks” when looking at the average US worker.

 

[drexeldog23]

By law they get 6 weeks off each year.

thats awesome... i get 7 paid weeks off each year but it took 25 years to get that many

 

[GloryDawg]

Minus 2 weeks for vacation?

“Holiday” isn’t only PTO, it’s also actual holidays. My company has 15-16 planned paid holidays per year. Starting PTO is 2 weeks, but most people with 5+ years have 3-4 weeks. So its not “minus 2 weeks”, its more like “minus 6-7 weeks” when looking at the average US worker.

NO ****. I was using the simplest form I could trying to get it down to the number listed in the article. **** man I earn 30 days a year PTO plus holidays. Only because I have been at the same job 23 years. I was just keeping it simple.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Germany must be working smarter not harder.

 

[Perd Hapley]

NO ****. I was using the simplest form I could trying to get it down to the number listed in the article. **** man I earn 30 days a year PTO plus holidays. Only because I have been at the same job 23 years. I was just keeping it simple.

I was simply saying that the number of working days in the graphic seems to be accurate for the average US worker, when considering the above info. There’s nothing missing in the data.

Now, what I would challenge is this…..an assumption of an 8 hr work day being average is probably not accurate for most of the adult workforce in the US. Its probably closer to 9-10 hrs on average. And also, not accounting for the differences in commute times from one country to the next is a huge miss as well. US workers have much longer commutes on average, and time spent commuting.

If I work an average of 9 hrs per day and I have a 35 minute commute, I’m essentially putting in about 51 hrs per week into my employment. And in urban areas, I’d consider that the norm. Those long asś commutes aren’t generally happening in Europe or Japan like they do in the US. Public transit and more population density around large employment centers reduces that average commute time a ton in other parts of the globe.

 

[vhdawg]

If you've ever been on a project with Germans, you know they simply disappear for weeks on end at times...

I didn't know my foundation guy was a German

 

[Seinfeld]

I'm still trying to figure out how they got to the German number. I mean, if you started with 255 standard workdays, then took out 3 wks of paid holidays, then took 8 weeks of PTO, and then assumed an 8 hr workday, that's still 1600 hours. To get down to 1343, someone would have to take yet another 32 days out throughout the year.

I work with a lot of Germans, and they do love their summer time, but I've never heard of anything on this level

 

[johnson86-1]

I was simply saying that the number of working days in the graphic seems to be accurate for the average US worker, when considering the above info. There’s nothing missing in the data.

Now, what I would challenge is this…..an assumption of an 8 hr work day being average is probably not accurate for most of the adult workforce in the US. Its probably closer to 9-10 hrs on average. And also, not accounting for the differences in commute times from one country to the next is a huge miss as well. US workers have much longer commutes on average, and time spent commuting.

If I work an average of 9 hrs per day and I have a 35 minute commute, I’m essentially putting in about 51 hrs per week into my employment. And in urban areas, I’d consider that the norm. Those long asś commutes aren’t generally happening in Europe or Japan like they do in the US. Public transit and more population density around large employment centers reduces that average commute time a ton in other parts of the globe.

Really depends on what you want to use the data for. If you want to look at it from the production side, you shouldn't include that. If you want to look at it from a quality of life standpoint, then you should.

 

[msualohadog]

This chart is flawed. The Germans work more than the Italians and the Greeks. I've lived in both Germany and Italy. The Italians are the worst.

 

[dorndawg]

 

[Perd Hapley]

Really depends on what you want to use the data for. If you want to look at it from the production side, you shouldn't include that. If you want to look at it from a quality of life standpoint, then you should.

Considering there’s no data at all in the chart related to productivity or economic health, I was only referring to quality of life aspect, mainly.

But from a high level, you could argue that productivity also suffers from a long commute. I tell my supervisor whenever I need a work from home day for whatever reason that I have a whole additional 1.5 hrs in my day available to do the same things I would be doing in the office, but can’t do while driving. I get a hell of a lot more done when my commute disappears, when the work tasks required at the time suits that particular environment.

 

[Boom Boom]

Considering there’s no data at all in the chart related to productivity or economic health, I was only referring to quality of life aspect, mainly.

But from a high level, you could argue that productivity also suffers from a long commute. I tell my supervisor whenever I need a work from home day for whatever reason that I have a whole additional 1.5 hrs in my day available to do the same things I would be doing in the office, but can’t do while driving. I get a hell of a lot more done when my commute disappears, when the work tasks required at the time suits that particular environment.

It really is amazing that as a culture we've lionized corporate executives in this country, and the best they've come up with since Covid is RTO.

 

[Perd Hapley]

It really is amazing that as a culture we've lionized corporate executives in this country, and the best they've come up with since Covid is RTO.

Well, in my particular line of work, I could never be fully remote. Gotta come in 3-4 days per week at minimum to get done what needs to be done. But there are certainly desk work tasks with flexible time tables that I can bulk together and easily do from home. Heavy meeting days or paperwork / documentation days can always be done remotely.

But whats crazy is the drastic shift in micromanaging that happens with intermittent remote work from the corporate company-line types.

“I have some child care conflicts and need to work from home today….got lots of meetings and paperwork catchup I need to do anyway”

“OK, what stuff are you going to get done from home?”

“Uh, all the exact same things I’d be doing if I was in the office…..where you wouldn’t be asking that same question”

Its just really funny that in today’s technologically advanced times, managers and leadership think they ever lose any scope or visibility to whether tasks are being done (or not done) according to their expectations….regardless of where the work is being done. That old school clock-punch glorification mentality of the “best workers are the ones logging the most hours early / late” is still alive and well, unfortunately.

 

[ezsoil]

I believe what is making the US Numbers so low is due to the number of government employees that make up our economy...you have teachers which do not work year round ..and you have many urban city employees and federal employees that get six weeks of vacation on top of the dozen or so worthless holidays......throw in that government employees are never downsized...they just continue to draw a check whether they actually do anything or not....there is no backstop of bankruptcy that the private sector must face if they don't adjust their workforce to the realities of market condition.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

40 hours a week times 52 weeks minus two weeks for vacation is 2000 hours. That simple math. You are correct. We are missing something in those numbers.

I must be the an extreme exception because I cannot remember the last week that I only worked 40 hours.