OT: Poll Over Scheduling Teenage Kids

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I was blousing through that shìtshow of a thread that somehow veered from North Jackson thuggery into border policy and Hitler... But one person mentioned jobs and workers.

Made me think of how many high school age kids do not work nowadays. I know lots of kids now have 3 seasons a year and don't work during them. How prevalent is this and is it taking a significant resource away from the overall employment pool?

 

[Dawgbite]

Laws changed about 15 years ago that severely limitEd employment opportunities for teenagers. My business used to hire about 12-15 kids who worked after school for 3-4 hours every day throughout the week. It was menial stuff, cleaning, sweeping, stacking stuff, but because we had dangerous equipment on-site, we could no longer even have anyone under 18 in the building. I found my son a summer job once, after that he made certain to find a job before it was time for me to find him one. Having a job teaches responsibility and that’s something that’s really lacking now days.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

We toured the TAMU ROTC program with my oldest son. To say the cadets are over scheduled is a vast understatement. One of the parents asked a presenter about that, his response, "the busiest kids are the most successful." Don't be concerned about your kids working or participating in sports too much.

 

[mstateglfr]

My oldest is a HS Jr and works in the summer as well as a little in the winter.

- She works about 10 hours a week in the winter- helps coach a younger club vball team and is paid what amounts to probably min wage. Does it because she likes working with kids.
- Then works 30-35ish hours each week in the summer.


She overschedules herself as it is with volunteer opportunities, school clubs, sports, etc. She doesn't hang with friends nearly as much as people did when I was a kid(not saying that is the ideal standard).
We are fortunate to be in a position where she doesn't have to work during the school year and she still learns all the realities of life that HS jobs teach you because she works in the summer.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Laws changed about 15 years ago that severely limitEd employment opportunities for teenagers. My business used to hire about 12-15 kids who worked after school for 3-4 hours every day throughout the week. It was menial stuff, cleaning, sweeping, stacking stuff, but because we had dangerous equipment on-site, we could no longer even have anyone under 18 in the building. I found my son a summer job once, after that he made certain to find a job before it was time for me to find him one. Having a job teaches responsibility and that’s something that’s really lacking now days.

This is true... You can't even deliver a 17ing pizza if you're under 18 anymore. Straight from the DOL Website:

Minors under 18 generally may not drive any type of motor vehicle or work as an outside helper on public roads or highways. This prohibition extends to the towing of vehicles and the driving of school buses and trucks. There is a limited exception to this provision that permits 17-year-olds to drive an automobile or truck (gross vehicle weight not exceeding 6,000 pounds) for limited periods of time when certain conditions are met. These conditions include that the minor possess a valid license, the driving is only during daylight hours, the driving does not involve urgent time sensitive deliveries such as delivering a pizza to a residence, and the driving is only occasional and incidental to their employment. There are additional requirements that also must be met.

 

[85Bears]

Work is a great asset for kids, teaches them a work ethic, responsibility, really pays off when they enter the work force.

If your kid plays a varsity sport, especially football ,and they workout/practice year around, it pretty much is a job, especially if they are a serious student taking ap classes.

 

[Yeti]

Just got mine into a top 10 public university..didn’t over schedule didn’t work except on grades. She is well rounded smart and travel helped her be more worldly. Have a grown daughter doing well…. same thing. Don’t let em over work they have all their life to try and fix what boomers messed up*

 

[Boom Boom]

We toured the TAMU ROTC program with my oldest son. To say the cadets are over scheduled is a vast understatement. One of the parents asked a presenter about that, his response, "the busiest kids are the most successful." Don't be concerned about your kids working or participating in sports too much.

Define "success". I suspect they mean got into a good uni, or a good job. But how was their LIFE?

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Work is a great asset for kids, teaches them a work ethic, responsibility, really pays off when they enter the work force.

If your kid plays a varsity sport, especially football ,and they workout/practice year around, it pretty much is a job, especially if they are a serious student taking ap classes.

Just got mine into a top 10 public university..didn’t over schedule didn’t work except on grades. She is well rounded smart and travel helped her be more worldly. Have a grown daughter doing well…. same thing. Don’t let em over work they have all their life to try and fix what boomers messed up*

What I am asking is that are a lot more kids like Yeti's daughters and 85's example than say 20-30+ years ago. Are high school kids now excepted/allowed to focus on school and activities in lieu of getting part time jobs to pay for cars and insurance like we did?

Not slinging crap at those who do, but as smart and hardworking as these kids may be, they come out of college not ready for the real world at times. Their soft skills are lacking... Nothing like working the drive thru at Wendy's in high school to learn how to tolerate and work with idiots and ássholes in your professional life down the road... But I digress, really just focused on how this trend affects the workforce. Especially with things like restaurants and retail stores where the peak hours are after 4 pm and weekends.

ETA.

Just found the data. From April of 1970 to February of 2001, the workforce participation rate of 16-19 year olds stayed between 50-60%. In 2001 (when 17ing millennials of course made up the entire demographic) it fell almost straight down to a low of 31% by 2012. Now it's stuck around 35%. I don't think we have to look it up, but that same millennial age bracket was when things like year around travel sports, clubs, act/sat prep, AP classes, etc really started becoming mainstream.




With a rough estimate of around 18 million 16-19 year olds, that amounts to around 2.7 million workers. Of course it's part time, that is a pretty serious dent that has been left in the labor pool...

Side note, does anyone want to bet me that at least 50% of those 16-19 year olds that are working today are all at Chick-fil-A?

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Just got mine into a top 10 public university..didn’t over schedule didn’t work except on grades. She is well rounded smart and travel helped her be more worldly. Have a grown daughter doing well…. same thing. Don’t let em over work they have all their life to try and fix what boomers messed up*

This got me to google top 10 public universities, it's crazy how many are in California. I didn't expect UF to be so high on the list. Unfortunately no MS schools made the list, in spite of such academic powerhouses as University of Southern Maine (not the Maine that Croomed us) and University of Nevada, Reno being on the list.

 

[Boom Boom]

What I am asking is that are a lot more kids like Yeti's daughters and 85's example than say 20-30+ years ago. Are high school kids now excepted/allowed to focus on school and activities in lieu of getting part time jobs to pay for cars and insurance like we did?

Not slinging crap at those who do, but as smart and hardworking as these kids may be, they come out of college not ready for the real world at times. Their soft skills are lacking... Nothing like working the drive thru at Wendy's in high school to learn how to tolerate and work with idiots and ássholes in your professional life down the road... But I digress, really just focused on how this trend affects the workforce. Especially with things like restaurants and retail stores where the peak hours are after 4 pm and weekends.

ETA.

Just found the data. From April of 1970 to February of 2001, the workforce participation rate of 16-19 year olds stayed between 50-60%. In 2001 (when 17ing millennials of course made up the entire demographic) it fell almost straight down to a low of 31% by 2012. Now it's stuck around 35%. I don't think we have to look it up, but that same millennial age bracket was when things like year around travel sports, clubs, act/sat prep, AP classes, etc really started becoming mainstream.

View attachment 530215


With a rough estimate of around 18 million 16-19 year olds, that amounts to around 2.7 million workers. Of course it's part time, that is a pretty serious dent that has been left in the labor pool...

Side note, does anyone want to bet me that at least 50% of those 16-19 year olds that are working today are all at Chick-fil-A?

Roughly correlates with the 2001 and 2008 recessions. The latter especially took a decade to recover (Feds didn't spend enough). I wonder if it recovered a bit with the job market as a whole, which is a bit off your chart.

 

[mstateglfr]

This got me to google top 10 public universities, it's crazy how many are in California. I didn't expect UF to be so high on the list. Unfortunately no MS schools made the list, in spite of such academic powerhouses as University of Southern Maine (not the Maine that Croomed us) and University of Nevada, Reno being on the list.

?

 

[FreeDawg]

It really boils down to do they need to work. HS aged kids that don’t, don’t. The ones that do generally work 10-15 hours a week so they can have an extra curricular life. Athletes work the least due to practice and several sports like baseball & soccer and basically year-round.

Growing up I played football so during season I only managed 10-15 hours but as soon as football was over I got 30 hours a week on avg and when I turned 18 sr year started waiting tables and got closer to 40. My parents gave me zero dollars for anything including clothes so I worked to maintain a wardrobe & lifestyle of my peers. Still managed to graduate with honors. You basically don’t see that today but I also don’t think the way I came up was the best. I was just never a kid that could miss out on stuff because I was broke. I paid a church ski strip out of my own pocket in 10th grade. Grad trip to Cancun same.

I don’t want my kids to have to work like that from 14-18. You have your whole life to work. I think part-time job in the 10-20 hours a week is the sweet spot to learn responsibility, time management, & accountability. Lets the kid’s initiative drive how much he or she wants to work. Forced job kids find every possible excuse to not actually come to work.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

One huge shift I've seen in 3 decades of university teaching. For a long time college kids worked during the summers, often full time, and during the semester would do work-study, maybe an internship or a part-time gig, but most were below 15 hours a week, if they were working at all.

When the bottom fell out of public education funding post 2008, and tuition spiked, that changed dramatically. I've polled my upper-division classes the last several years and the majority are working 20+ hours a week, with a decent minority holding down full time work. So they sleep in the 8:00AM classes, don't do the reading, and in many other ways treat college as a part-time gig. It sucks for them, and it sucks for professors.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

This is true... You can't even deliver a 17ing pizza if you're under 18 anymore. Straight from the DOL Website:

Minors under 18 generally may not drive any type of motor vehicle or work as an outside helper on public roads or highways. This prohibition extends to the towing of vehicles and the driving of school buses and trucks. There is a limited exception to this provision that permits 17-year-olds to drive an automobile or truck (gross vehicle weight not exceeding 6,000 pounds) for limited periods of time when certain conditions are met. These conditions include that the minor possess a valid license, the driving is only during daylight hours, the driving does not involve urgent time sensitive deliveries such as delivering a pizza to a residence, and the driving is only occasional and incidental to their employment. There are additional requirements that also must be met.

I mean if it were my kid I wouldn't want them driving all night around delivering to strangers homes. I don't see a problem with saying yeah that's not a good idea. Too many weirdos out there.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Roughly correlates with the 2001 and 2008 recessions. The latter especially took a decade to recover (Feds didn't spend enough). I wonder if it recovered a bit with the job market as a whole, which is a bit off your chart.

It has not. It's the fact that more people don't make their kids work than ever before. It used to be 45% of Americans gave teens their cars and going out money without making them get a job... Now it's 65%.

 

[Pars]

I worked during high school and college. I’m trying to be set enough for my kid to enjoy being a kid. They’ll have there entire adult lives to pay bills and worry about money.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Basically what Dawgbite said earlier in this thread and for the most part also what Crazy Cotton mentioned as well.

I worked in my family’s business for years before I took college classes and then worked some more there during some weekends, summers, and breaks while I was a student.

 

[Podgy]

I did all kinds of low-status, minimum wage jobs in high school and college because I grew up lower-middle class and needed money. My kids didn't work in high school because I'm rich now and they didn't have to (thank you stock market, tax cuts, self-discipline, marrying up and hard work). They also went to private school and did minimal extra curricula stuff. Their grades and ACT scores are much better than their parents and they are making money attending a university that threw cash at them. They both work about 10-15 hours a week now because they want to before heading to med school.

 

[jdbulldog]

I was blousing through that shìtshow of a thread that somehow veered from North Jackson thuggery into border policy and Hitler... But one person mentioned jobs and workers.

Made me think of how many high school age kids do not work nowadays. I know lots of kids now have 3 seasons a year and don't work during them. How prevalent is this and is it taking a significant resource away from the overall employment pool?

I always hired anywhere from 2 to 8 kids for summer work. Most of the kids really needed help just learning how to work. 3 of those kids worked each summer all the way through college. They were great. Of those 3, one is now an anesthesiologist, another is an attorney, and another is working with a pharmaceutical company waiting to get into med school. There was only one kid who did not work out. We had one outstanding football athlete work two summers and is now a premier SEC player who will play in the NFL after next season. He is a very fine young man…unfortunately, not a Bulldog!

 

[jethreauxdawg]

What I am asking is that are a lot more kids like Yeti's daughters and 85's example than say 20-30+ years ago. Are high school kids now excepted/allowed to focus on school and activities in lieu of getting part time jobs to pay for cars and insurance like we did?

Not slinging crap at those who do, but as smart and hardworking as these kids may be, they come out of college not ready for the real world at times. Their soft skills are lacking... Nothing like working the drive thru at Wendy's in high school to learn how to tolerate and work with idiots and ássholes in your professional life down the road... But I digress, really just focused on how this trend affects the workforce. Especially with things like restaurants and retail stores where the peak hours are after 4 pm and weekends.

ETA.

Just found the data. From April of 1970 to February of 2001, the workforce participation rate of 16-19 year olds stayed between 50-60%. In 2001 (when 17ing millennials of course made up the entire demographic) it fell almost straight down to a low of 31% by 2012. Now it's stuck around 35%. I don't think we have to look it up, but that same millennial age bracket was when things like year around travel sports, clubs, act/sat prep, AP classes, etc really started becoming mainstream.

View attachment 530215


With a rough estimate of around 18 million 16-19 year olds, that amounts to around 2.7 million workers. Of course it's part time, that is a pretty serious dent that has been left in the labor pool...

Side note, does anyone want to bet me that at least 50% of those 16-19 year olds that are working today are all at Chick-fil-A?

When did minimum wage laws change? I wonder what impact that had on high school kids and entry level positions, if any.

You mentioned soft skills. Been dealing with that recently. Very educated young coworker that has zero clue about how the world functions for most people and no ability to handle minor difficulties in the work place. If it didn’t cause me headaches, the absurdity of some of the stuff would be comical. Pro-tip: if mommy and daddy buy you a $700k house for your “starter home”, don’t tell your coworkers making $40k. Just trust me on that one.

 

[bolddogge]

My parents abundantly provided great food clothing and shelter, doubled the money I saved for my first vehicle and paid the insurance on it. (It's a good thing Farm Bureau never saw the slick '56 that was classified as a farm truck.) If I wanted cash for anything else... I had to get a job. Between my 2 main jobs of working at a service station and for a carpenter, I cleaned stables at a horse barn, cut off ditch banks during spring break and hauled hay in the summer. Had to work those around football and track practices after school and yard / garden work at home. No jobs while I was at State other than spring and summer breaks. (Engineering is hard.) I still found time to wedge in more than enough mischief though. But there's no telling the trouble I'd have been in if I didn't keep myself so busy. Idle hands are the devil’s workshop.

 

[johnson86-1]

I mean if it were my kid I wouldn't want them driving all night around delivering to strangers homes. I don't see a problem with saying yeah that's not a good idea. Too many weirdos out there.

That's a good thing for parents to decide and for teenagers to decide. It's ridiculous that the federal government would make that decision.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Just found the data. From April of 1970 to February of 2001, the workforce participation rate of 16-19 year olds stayed between 50-60%. In 2001 (when 17ing millennials of course made up the entire demographic) it fell almost straight down to a low of 31% by 2012. Now it's stuck around 35%. I don't think we have to look it up, but that same millennial age bracket was when things like year around travel sports, clubs, act/sat prep, AP classes, etc really started becoming mainstream.

All a strategy in how to get more money for college or whatever, with some status mixed in. I have no idea what the correct calculus is, but the 80/20 rule will tell you that 80% of the ones who participate in travel/clubs/etc. won't benefit from it - they are just there to subsidize. Nothing wrong with doing these things to gain an edge if you want to pay for them, but just know that the 20% are probably going to gain the most, for the cheapest.

I personally think we need to get rid of this whole 'enjoy being a kid' thing. I realize you make many memories as a kid, but should your ratio of work/accomplishment/enjoyment really ever change as you become an adult? Everything in balance, in other words. And shouldn't it be set very early?

I will say that we should be SEMI directing them into something that suits them and they have some level of aptitude for, whatever that 'work' may be, as a kid. Sports, trades, tech, whatever. Or, the smart parents will do this. The sheep will continue to herd their average kids into whatever is popular, rather than developing their own talents/passions.

 

[johnson86-1]

I don’t want my kids to have to work like that from 14-18. You have your whole life to work. I think part-time job in the 10-20 hours a week is the sweet spot to learn responsibility, time management, & accountability. Lets the kid’s initiative drive how much he or she wants to work. Forced job kids find every possible excuse to not actually come to work.

I agree with this. I want my kids to have some freedom, but I don't want them sitting around all summer long when they are old enough to drive. I think never working in high school or college is hard to adjust from. I don't blame younger workers coming from that situation that hate their job and resist hard work. They just basically had paradise with no responsibilities other than minimal ones related to breezing through school (which has pretty consistently gotten easier over the decades) and usually a little bit of spending money and people their age always down to do something. Yea, work does suck compared to that and it probably is crushing to think you won't get to experience that for another 25-30 years and it will be with old people.

Ideally I'd want them to have some weeks where they have to bust it and work pretty much full time and then lots of weeks where they get to screw off and travel and fish and whatever, but not sure there's any job like that.

 

[johnson86-1]

I personally think we need to get rid of this whole 'enjoy being a kid' thing. I realize you make many memories as a kid, but should your ratio of work/accomplishment/enjoyment really ever change as you become an adult? Everything in balance, in other words. And shouldn't it be set very early?

This is maybe a better way of getting at what I was trying to say. I don't know about the ratio not changing at all, but it's a hell of an adjustment to go from zero work to a full work week. And I think it sends something of a perverse message to take the position that kids should basically avoid work as long as possible. It trains them to think that work and fun are antithetical when I think most people would be happier working at least part time. I pretty much always worked some but never had a big workload. The one exception is I had I had one semester where I just went to school and didn't work and it was my least fun semester. That was also probably the only semester I had that wasn't pretty challenging. I didn't do anything with my extra free time; I just wasted it. But it also seems like it took some of the shine off the things I always did.

 

[mstateglfr]

Growing up I played football so during season I only managed 10-15 hours but as soon as football was over I got 30 hours a week on avg and when I turned 18 sr year started waiting tables and got closer to 40.
...
I don’t want my kids to have to work like that from 14-18. You have your whole life to work. I think part-time job in the 10-20 hours a week is the sweet spot to learn responsibility, time management, & accountability. Lets the kid’s initiative drive how much he or she wants to work. Forced job kids find every possible excuse to not actually come to work.

We told our oldest to just save what she makes right now in HS so it can go towards her expenses in college. And I sat down with her so she could open an investment account and push some of her money into it. Figure even though the actual amount of growth will be small, getting her used to the concept of allocating some money for investing early on is good. Hopefully she takes to it and does it right out of college.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

This is maybe a better way of getting at what I was trying to say. I don't know about the ratio not changing at all, but it's a hell of an adjustment to go from zero work to a full work week. And I think it sends something of a perverse message to take the position that kids should basically avoid work as long as possible. It trains them to think that work and fun are antithetical when I think most people would be happier working at least part time. I pretty much always worked some but never had a big workload. The one exception is I had I had one semester where I just went to school and didn't work and it was my least fun semester. That was also probably the only semester I had that wasn't pretty challenging. I didn't do anything with my extra free time; I just wasted it. But it also seems like it took some of the shine off the things I always did.

It (work, or busy-ness of some kind) at least gives you some level of positive identity and accomplishment. Because you're right, when you just sit around being lazy, life is dull, even if it seems cool in the moment. Nobody wants to be around a bum, unless you're rich. Let's face it, that's the only way that whole deal works. And it still makes you shltty person most of the time.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

We told our oldest to just save what she makes right now in HS so it can go towards her expenses in college. And I sat down with her so she could open an investment account and push some of her money into it. Figure even though the actual amount of growth will be small, getting her used to the concept of allocating some money for investing early on is good. Hopefully she takes to it and does it right out of college.

This is the key, and main point of all this in my mind, outside of learning responsibility. Let them learn to see budgeting in action. And whatever your financial plan is, whether it's Dave Ramsey or Robert Kyosoki or anything in between - if it's set into motion early and adhered to, it will pay off big time.

 

[dawgstudent]

Sports has changed summer jobs. If you play a fall sport (even spring b/c of baseball) - the sport is your job. It wasn't that way back in the 90's. We had workouts but we either went before or after our summer job that day.

I worked at a car dealership in the service area. Cleaned the bins. Drove the courtesy car. Changed oil on occasion. Had to be at work at 7 and got off around 5:45 then went to school and lifted weights. Thinking about that now makes me tired.

In college, I worked at Waterways aka ERDC in Vicksburg. It's the research facility for the Corps of Engineers. I also only worked 2 semesters at State (Sanderson Center). I could work during Christmas and Spring Break at ERDC and make just as much money working at the Sanderson Center so I quit working at the Sanderson Center after a year.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

That's a good thing for parents to decide and for teenagers to decide. It's ridiculous that the federal government would make that decision.

They do let you join the Marine Corps at 17 though... Can't deliver pizzas. Can ride in an Uber alone at 13. Can't make bread or operate bakery equipment until you're 18... Can get their weiner removed at 15.

Gotta love big government.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Sports has changed summer jobs. If you play a fall sport (even spring b/c of baseball) - the sport is your job. It wasn't that way back in the 90's. We had workouts but we either went before or after our summer job that day.

My question is, why do we as parents never question this? It simply isn't necessary to do this with sports, ESPECIALLY if you are an elite player. Again, the middle and lower bunch get the shaft yet again, because they use FOMO on them. Unless they absolutely love it - then by all means, go out and try to outwork the more talented folks (assuming they have baseline talent).

We have created an economy for this stuff with all these athletes who graduated with useless degrees and can't do anything else. Now they are using basic sales principles to fleece uneducated parents. And everybody knows this year-round stuff isn't the best idea, but they keep doing it anyway because it's easy money. They all get on podcasts and rant about the state of things, but none of them (who are in a position of power) ever do anything about it. But whatever, give the consumer what they want.

 

[kired]

You mentioned soft skills. Been dealing with that recently. Very educated young coworker that has zero clue about how the world functions for most people and no ability to handle minor difficulties in the work place. If it didn’t cause me headaches, the absurdity of some of the stuff would be comical.

Working just for the sake of working doesn't always teach those soft skills. We've had some new graduates that'll work as long as you tell them exactly what to do, but they can't think for themselves. Have no drive to do anything. Scared to answer the phone. Make the same dumb mistakes over & over. They had great grades and plenty of work experience through school. But I think the problem is they've never had anything depend on their decisions. Even though they were working, their parents were still there to take care of everything. Parents made them get a job but didn't teach them why you need a job. You've got to push these kids out and force them to live on their own some.

 

[Boom Boom]

That's a good thing for parents to decide and for teenagers to decide. It's ridiculous that the federal government would make that decision.

If they're on the road with me and my loved ones, I do kinda want some govt involvement in safe roads. I think it's a good idea to not put teenagers on the road with an incentive to drive recklessly.

 

[Boom Boom]

It (work, or busy-ness of some kind) at least gives you some level of positive identity and accomplishment. Because you're right, when you just sit around being lazy, life is dull, even if it seems cool in the moment. Nobody wants to be around a bum, unless you're rich. Let's face it, that's the only way that whole deal works. And it still makes you shltty person most of the time.

Busy work is a prime bugaboo to me. When my kids are older I will teach them to be skeptical of busy work, to learn to ignore it when there is insufficient incentive for it, and will push teachers/schools to not rely on it. My kids go to school to learn, not to be babysat then sent home to learn. If you can't teach them in 8 hours, the problem is the school, not the kid.

If kids are getting self worth from busy work, all they will learn to be is an office drone.

 

[johnson86-1]

Busy work is a prime bugaboo to me. When my kids are older I will teach them to be skeptical of busy work, to learn to ignore it when there is insufficient incentive for it, and will push teachers/schools to not rely on it. My kids go to school to learn, not to be babysat then sent home to learn. If you can't teach them in 8 hours, the problem is the school, not the kid.

If kids are getting self worth from busy work, all they will learn to be is an office drone.

I don't disagree with your post, but I interpreted "busy-ness" not as busy work, but something more like non-paid work. Don't have to have a job but need to do something meaningful to you to contribute.

You do definitely see people try to fulfill themselves with busy work. I think the prototypical example is the PTA mom that makes things stressful for everybody. They are trying to use PTA to provide some fulfillment now that their kids don't need them for most of the day, and mistakenly equate stress/busy-work with fulfillment when what they really need is something that challenges them.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Working just for the sake of working doesn't always teach those soft skills. We've had some new graduates that'll work as long as you tell them exactly what to do, but they can't think for themselves. Have no drive to do anything. Scared to answer the phone. Make the same dumb mistakes over & over. They had great grades and plenty of work experience through school. But I think the problem is they've never had anything depend on their decisions. Even though they were working, their parents were still there to take care of everything. Parents made them get a job but didn't teach them why you need a job. You've got to push these kids out and force them to live on their own some.

Agreed. That’s a good way to put it. They’ve never been responsible for anything. Someone else either did it for them or just cleaned up behind them. They aren’t mentally strong enough to handle something that has consequences. Of course if mom and dad are still covering all bills, they don’t “need” a job.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

If they're on the road with me and my loved ones, I do kinda want some govt involvement in safe roads. I think it's a good idea to not put teenagers on the road with an incentive to drive recklessly.

I don't think the teenagers delivering pizzas are the ones that you should be worried about on the roads at night.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don't disagree with your post, but I interpreted "busy-ness" not as busy work, but something more like non-paid work. Don't have to have a job but need to do something meaningful to you to contribute.

You do definitely see people try to fulfill themselves with busy work. I think the prototypical example is the PTA mom that makes things stressful for everybody. They are trying to use PTA to provide some fulfillment now that their kids don't need them for most of the day, and mistakenly equate stress/busy-work with fulfillment when what they really need is something that challenges them.

Yes, this is more what I meant. Anything productive, not been busy for the sake of it. So I do agree @Boom Boom

 

[Boom Boom]

I don't think the teenagers delivering pizzas are the ones that you should be worried about on the roads at night.

A buzzed driver doing the speed limit is safer than a teenager that's speeding, even before accounting for the latter is probably glued to their phone.

But I want govt working on that too. Just not quite how they are doing it currently