OT: Related to the Tupelo/police incident discussion

[Darryl Steight]

I debated whether to post this, but I saw the link last night and watched with interest because we had just been discussing the topic on SPS. It's an incredible video, because you don't see this kind of talk on social media much, and you especially don't see someone admit they were wrong. I almost can't believe they posted it, but I'm glad they did.

Just a little background, so you can decide for yourself whether to spend a few minutes watching. It's a discussion between two gentlemen who apparently get together and chat every couple of weeks. One is a professor at Brown, one is a professor at Columbia. The Columbia professor also happens to be a journalist at the New York Times. Both seem highly educated. Both happen to be black men. Judging from some off-topic discussion later in the video, they both seem to dislike Donald Trump to some degree, and I think one dislikes him a lot. But that's not what the video is about. It's about these two seemingly normal guys, who had one opinion based on what they had seen and heard, but who now have changed their opinions based on new information. And they discuss with brutal honesty why they have changed, and how the whole incident has seemingly changed the world. The topic is the George Floyd incident and the recent documentary about it. I don't want to start a new political thread, or a thread necessarily about Floyd/Chauvin and guilt or innocence. Just thought this was interesting on that topic.

You can watch the first 6 or 8 minutes and get a feel for it, but the whole thing is good and I wish everyone would watch it. These guys are for America and want things to be better, which I appreciate. I had never heard of either of them before, but I wish more people on both sides could have civilized discussions like this, reevaluate when new evidence is brought forth, and even agree to disagree but remain cordial, as they do.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I haven’t watched it yet but that’s pretty telling if John McWhorter has changed his mind.

 

[Darryl Steight]

I haven’t watched it yet but that’s pretty telling if John McWhorter has changed his mind.

You can tell he's agonized over it too, but he comes off as very level headed about it. That's what I thought was amazing, in today's environment no one really wants to do that.

 

[Boom Boom]

I haven’t watched it yet but that’s pretty telling if John McWhorter has changed his mind.

How so? He has made a career as the black guy saying conservative things.

John McWhorter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Podgy]

How so? He has made a career as the black guy saying conservative things.

John McWhorter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He's not conservative. He's not just reliably liberal. He gets ostracized by black colleagues for not thinking like Al Sharpton. You make more money, millions like Kendi and Coates, if you tow the liberal line. Guilt-ridden white progressives will shower you with money and prizes if you tell them how racist America is.

 

[Podgy]

Good cops need to stop protecting bad cops, yes I know unions do a lot of it, and libz need to stop demonizing police officers. They're the ones who risk their lives to protect others. I know of know other profession where people run toward gun shots after hearing them.

 

[Coast_Dawg]

About half way through…can’t say my thoughts because it would do everything you don’t want this to turn into. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

Did a double-take when I saw the name, I did some work with McWhorter about 20 years ago when he was a lot more focused on psycholinguistics. He was a pretty hot commodity in the field at the time and still known in the area. He started really moving towards policy and politics about the time LLP models were gaining traction. Could have ridden that AI train

 

[She Mate Me]

Had no idea the McWhorter/Loury video was going to be the topic when I hit this thread. I watched it last night and it prompted me to watch the Fall of Minneapolis documentary referenced until way past midnight.

Suffice to say I wasn't the least bit surprised by the contents of that documentary, except that the magnitude of the amorality and deceit is beyond what even my cynical old azz had conjured.

Watch the documentary. It's free on YouTube. I'd be interested in your thoughts, but only after you actually watch it all the way through.

 

[Boom Boom]

He's not conservative. He's not just reliably liberal. He gets ostracized by black colleagues for not thinking like Al Sharpton. You make more money, millions like Kendi and Coates, if you tow the liberal line. Guilt-ridden white progressives will shower you with money and prizes if you tell them how racist America is.

He sure says a lot of conservative things. And he has a pretty sweet gig doing it. Just saying, it's no surprise he would say these things. He says things like it all the time. He works for and surrounds himself with people that say these things. Why would anyone be surprised he said another one?

 

[Boom Boom]

Had no idea the McWhorter/Loury video was going to be the topic when I hit this thread. I watched it last night and it prompted me to watch the Fall of Minneapolis documentary referenced until way past midnight.

Suffice to say I wasn't the least bit surprised by the contents of that documentary, except that the magnitude of the amorality and deceit is beyond what even my cynical old azz had conjured.

Watch the documentary. It's free on YouTube. I'd be interested in your thoughts, but only after you actually watch it all the way through.

You should probably start by seeing who made the doc. I wouldn't trust anyone of that background on either side.

 

[She Mate Me]

You should probably start by seeing who made the doc. I wouldn't trust anyone of that background on either side.

You've made it very clear that you have a team and don't think much for yourself. I decided a while back that I don't care much what you post because I believe you've made up your mind based on a tribe mentality.

If I see something from you that makes me think you've opened up to thinking for yourself I'll pay attention, but that day isn't here

Have you watched the documentary?

 

[Podgy]

He sure says a lot of conservative things. And he has a pretty sweet gig doing it. Just saying, it's no surprise he would say these things. He says things like it all the time. He works for and surrounds himself with people that say these things. Why would anyone be surprised he said another one?

Liberals often say conservative things. I know a lot of liberals who live conservatively but don't like admitting it publicly. He's always voted Dem and admits that. I've been listening to Loury and McWhorter for some time and read Loury decades ago. He's conservative, McWhorter isn't. McWhorter thinks the left has gone off the rails with the social justice/anti-racism nonsense. McWhorter is a serious scholar, someone with an impressive academic record in his field. He thinks the social justice/anti-racist types are lightweights and charlatans and that many white progressives worship them because they have lower standards for black scholars. And they don't want to be called racists. McWhorter is respected, well not by black colleagues, because he's a scholar and he's honest. He's genuine and not expressing opinions simply to cash in even though people value his opinions. His career is as an academician, a linguist. His cultural and political commentary took off because he noticed reality.

 

[AFDawg]

OT on the OT: McWhorter's language and linguistics podcast, Lexicon Valley, is brilliant.

 

[She Mate Me]

Liberals often say conservative things. I know a lot of liberals who live conservatively but don't like admitting it publicly. He's always voted Dem and admits that. I've been listening to Loury and McWhorter for some time and read Loury decades ago. He's conservative, McWhorter isn't. McWhorter thinks the left has gone off the rails with the social justice/anti-racism nonsense. McWhorter is a serious scholar, someone with an impressive academic record in his field. He thinks the social justice/anti-racist types are lightweights and charlatans and that many white progressives worship them because they have lower standards for black scholars. And they don't want to be called racists. McWhorter is respected, well not by black colleagues, because he's a scholar and he's honest. He's genuine and not expressing opinions simply to cash in even though people value his opinions. His career is as an academician, a linguist. His cultural and political commentary took off because he noticed reality.

Very 17'ing well said. I didn't have the energy or eloquence for that.

 

[Podgy]

OT on the OT: McWhorter's language and linguistics podcast, Lexicon Valley, is brilliant.

He also has good teaching company/great courses on linguistics and language. He's a serious scholar.

 

[WilCoDawg]

He sure says a lot of conservative things. And he has a pretty sweet gig doing it. Just saying, it's no surprise he would say these things. He says things like it all the time. He works for and surrounds himself with people that say these things. Why would anyone be surprised he said another one?

Compared to you, even a communist would say a lot conservative things.

 

[paindonthurt]

How so? He has made a career as the black guy saying conservative things.

John McWhorter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hahahaha facts are conservative?

who knew

 

[paindonthurt]

You've made it very clear that you have a team and don't think much for yourself. I decided a while back that I don't care much what you post because I believe you've made up your mind based on a tribe mentality.

If I see something from you that makes me think you've opened up to thinking for yourself I'll pay attention, but that day isn't here

Have you watched the documentary?

Hes an idiot. Iq below 110 easily.

Don’t sugar coat it.

 

[mstateglfr]

Deleted the response about IQ.
nmfm

 

[paindonthurt]

100 is considered an average IQ.
Saying someone is easily below an above average IQ isn't really insulting.

read his comments on this thread alone and form your own opinion dude

 

[She Mate Me]

Hes an idiot. Iq below 110 easily.

Don’t sugar coat it.

Trying to be moderately polite while telling someone you don't respect their opinions is not the same as sugarcoating in my world.

 

[She Mate Me]

He's not conservative. He's not just reliably liberal. He gets ostracized by black colleagues for not thinking like Al Sharpton. You make more money, millions like Kendi and Coates, if you tow the liberal line. Guilt-ridden white progressives will shower you with money and prizes if you tell them how racist America is.

The truly sad thing to me is that black men who are clearly very intelligent, deep thinking Ivy League professors are not universally respected and admired among others of their race.

They symbolize how far we've come in this country in our thinking and actions regarding race. As far as I'm concerned, disagree with them all you want, but they deserve respect.

 

[Boom Boom]

Liberals often say conservative things. I know a lot of liberals who live conservatively but don't like admitting it publicly. He's always voted Dem and admits that. I've been listening to Loury and McWhorter for some time and read Loury decades ago. He's conservative, McWhorter isn't. McWhorter thinks the left has gone off the rails with the social justice/anti-racism nonsense. McWhorter is a serious scholar, someone with an impressive academic record in his field. He thinks the social justice/anti-racist types are lightweights and charlatans and that many white progressives worship them because they have lower standards for black scholars. And they don't want to be called racists. McWhorter is respected, well not by black colleagues, because he's a scholar and he's honest. He's genuine and not expressing opinions simply to cash in even though people value his opinions. His career is as an academician, a linguist. His cultural and political commentary took off because he noticed reality.

Conservatives often say a lot of liberal things too. But this guy says things that only conservatives say. He claims he's liberal, but his words say he's not. Perfect for the NYT. He said a lot of stuff in that video that your average poster here would know is not true or that he thinks is new info but never was. If you can't see the obvious, I can't help you.

 

[DawgsNCowboys87]

I debated whether to post this, but I saw the link last night and watched with interest because we had just been discussing the topic on SPS. It's an incredible video, because you don't see this kind of talk on social media much, and you especially don't see someone admit they were wrong. I almost can't believe they posted it, but I'm glad they did.

Just a little background, so you can decide for yourself whether to spend a few minutes watching. It's a discussion between two gentlemen who apparently get together and chat every couple of weeks. One is a professor at Brown, one is a professor at Columbia. The Columbia professor also happens to be a journalist at the New York Times. Both seem highly educated. Both happen to be black men. Judging from some off-topic discussion later in the video, they both seem to dislike Donald Trump to some degree, and I think one dislikes him a lot. But that's not what the video is about. It's about these two seemingly normal guys, who had one opinion based on what they had seen and heard, but who now have changed their opinions based on new information. And they discuss with brutal honesty why they have changed, and how the whole incident has seemingly changed the world. The topic is the George Floyd incident and the recent documentary about it. I don't want to start a new political thread, or a thread necessarily about Floyd/Chauvin and guilt or innocence. Just thought this was interesting on that topic.

You can watch the first 6 or 8 minutes and get a feel for it, but the whole thing is good and I wish everyone would watch it. These guys are for America and want things to be better, which I appreciate. I had never heard of either of them before, but I wish more people on both sides could have civilized discussions like this, reevaluate when new evidence is brought forth, and even agree to disagree but remain cordial, as they do.

Will watch and give my opinion afterwards… I was just having a conversation with my Wife earlier around 7:30 or 8 about how so many people it seems can’t/don’t think for their selves. The just do or repeat what they hear from family and or friends etc. That or have minds made up ahead of time.

 

[WilCoDawg]

The truly sad thing to me is that black men who are clearly very intelligent, deep thinking Ivy League professors are not universally respected and admired among others of their race.

They symbolize how far we've come in this country in our thinking and actions regarding race. As far as I'm concerned, disagree with them all you want, but they deserve respect.

Well, we have come full circle now when Christmas parties for non-whites-only is acceptable and defended so don’t get your hopes up about people accepting lines of thinking that don’t go lockstep with the party line.

 

[WilCoDawg]

Conservatives often say a lot of liberal things too. But this guy says things that only conservatives say. He claims he's liberal, but his words say he's not. Perfect for the NYT. He said a lot of stuff in that video that your average poster here would know is not true or that he thinks is new info but never was. If you can't see the obvious, I can't help you.

I’m curious about all these liberal things conservatives say…

 

[bolddogge]

Know what I think about race? I don't. And I wish everyone would quit sifting every issue through a racial, or while we're at it, a sexual orientation sieve. So sick of it. Use common sense (if you have any) and think for yourselves people.

 

[Podgy]

Conservatives often say a lot of liberal things too. But this guy says things that only conservatives say. He claims he's liberal, but his words say he's not. Perfect for the NYT. He said a lot of stuff in that video that your average poster here would know is not true or that he thinks is new info but never was. If you can't see the obvious, I can't help you.

I certainly say liberal stuff, and believe some of it, but I'm not a liberal. Lemme guess, you occupy something called the left pole and anyone not on it is either conservative or far right. "He said a lot of stuff..." Point some out. Didn't watch the video, btw, but let me know what's inaccurate in it and I'll take a look.

 

[Boom Boom]

Know what I think about race? I don't. And I wish everyone would quit sifting every issue through a racial, or while we're at it, a sexual orientation sieve. So sick of it. Use common sense (if you have any) and think for yourselves people.

Exactly. If there is an issue (and there is), it's primarily a policing issue, that hits certain groups disproportionately (race). McWhorton is just waking up to that (white people get shot by cops too). A liberal would have already known it. Classic centrist conservative, an absolute perfect fit for the NYT. He gets to trumpet a doc made by conservative interest groups (the doc maker is literally the wife of the police union president, I mean come on people show some critical thinking skills) and pretend it's enlightening.