OT: Shohei Ohtani is absurd

[wbcbus]

Through 3 seasons pitching, he's 38-19 with a 3.30 ERA and 1.08 WHIP, along with an incredible 11.4 K/9 (would be highest all-time if he had enough innings).

So, great pitcher, even though he couldn't pitch this year after Tommy John. But now this season at the plate he goes and becomes the first player in MLB history to hit 50 HRs and steal 50 bases.

He reached both milestones today by going 6 for 6 with a single, 2 doubles, 3 home runs, 2 stolen bases, 4 runs, and 10 runs batted in. Absolute insanity.

 

[Relayer]

No doubt Ohtani is a great player. I thought the guys on MLB Network might be going a little overboard. They equated this to hitting .400 in a season. The host said he's the greatest all-time and put him with the category with Jordan, Gretzky and Brady. Ohtani needs to win a championship, or two. The other 3 mentioned have 17 combined. BTW, the last HR was off a position player.

 

[Midnighter]

This is a hell of a stat line…

 

[Midnighter]

Through 3 seasons pitching, he's 38-19 with a 3.30 ERA and 1.08 WHIP, along with an incredible 11.4 K/9 (would be highest all-time if he had enough innings).

So, great pitcher, even though he couldn't pitch this year after Tommy John. But now this season at the plate he goes and becomes the first player in MLB history to hit 50 HRs and steal 50 bases.

He reached both milestones today by going 6 for 6 with a single, 2 doubles, 3 home runs, 2 stolen bases, 4 runs, and 10 runs batted in. Absolute insanity.

Didn’t see this when I posted - absolutely incredible.

 

[Midnighter]

No doubt Ohtani is a great player. I thought the guys on MLB Network might be going a little overboard. They equated this to hitting .400 in a season. The host said he's the greatest all-time and put him with the category with Jordan, Gretzky and Brady. Ohtani needs to win a championship, or two. The other 3 mentioned have 17 combined. BTW, the last HR was off a position player.

Baseball is the most difficult sport for a single player to carry a team - unlike hockey and basketball (football to a lesser extent unless you are a 1/1 QB). Craziest thing for me about Ohtani is he bats lead off.

 

[wbcbus]

No doubt Ohtani is a great player. I thought the guys on MLB Network might be going a little overboard. They equated this to hitting .400 in a season. The host said he's the greatest all-time and put him with the category with Jordan, Gretzky and Brady. Ohtani needs to win a championship, or two. The other 3 mentioned have 17 combined. BTW, the last HR was off a position player.

Yeah, longevity is what it'll take for him to join those others. He needs another 5+ years at the level he's been going the past 4 to become part of that conversation. If he's able to come back and pitch the way he was before, in addition to hitting like this, he's truly unique in how great he is.

I agree with Midnighter that it's unfair to require a baseball player to achieve championships to join that company because they simply can't do it on their own as much as the other sports. Obviously they all require team talent, but baseball requires it moreso than any other sport IMO.

 

[BobPSU92]

A$$. BEATING.

 

[StamfordBridgeVikingatLeftOffensiveTackle]

This stretch that he's had is off the charts. His last ten games.

 

[wbcbus]

This stretch that he's had is off the charts. His last ten games.

Just a 112 HR, 144 SB pace over those 10 games.

 

[Ludd]

No doubt Ohtani is a great player. I thought the guys on MLB Network might be going a little overboard. They equated this to hitting .400 in a season. The host said he's the greatest all-time and put him with the category with Jordan, Gretzky and Brady. Ohtani needs to win a championship, or two. The other 3 mentioned have 17 combined. BTW, the last HR was off a position player.

There’s a difference between being the greatest player and being the most accomplished player. Championships don’t equate to being the greatest player, ability does. A great player on a crappy team is still a great player. A very good player on a great team makes that player seem better than they really are.

 

[Ceasar]

No doubt Ohtani is a great player. I thought the guys on MLB Network might be going a little overboard. They equated this to hitting .400 in a season. The host said he's the greatest all-time and put him with the category with Jordan, Gretzky and Brady. Ohtani needs to win a championship, or two. The other 3 mentioned have 17 combined. BTW, the last HR was off a position player.

I tend to agree with you about Ohtani. Starting with your premise, he is absolutely a great player, no question about it. But I do think Amsinger in particular goes to extremes by calling him the greatest player ever.
I look at 3 things that impact my assessment of him. First, he is a DH. IMHO you cannot completely eliminate defense from a player's resume if you want to call them an all-time great. Look at the defense Mookie Betts plays at RF, SS, 2B.... or Judge in CF. They are complete players and that separates them from a DH only. Second, stolen bases must be viewed differently now. Not just because of the larger base, but because of the 2 pickoff limit. A lot of guys are now stealing a lot of bases. 50 steals, while still very impressive, is not what it was 5 years ago, Last, IMO it is fine to talk about him as a P but it should be honestly acknowledged, he has won more than 10 games once in his career. He has won 10 games twice. Sometimes he is talked about as a great pitcher and IMHO that is not the case. Pedro Martinez has mentioned this frequently.

 

[TheTwistedFrog]

I tend to agree with you about Ohtani. Starting with your premise, he is absolutely a great player, no question about it. But I do think Amsinger in particular goes to extremes by calling him the greatest player ever.
I look at 3 things that impact my assessment of him. First, he is a DH. IMHO you cannot completely eliminate defense from a player's resume if you want to call them an all-time great. Look at the defense Mookie Betts plays at RF, SS, 2B.... or Judge in CF. They are complete players and that separates them from a DH only. Second, stolen bases must be viewed differently now. Not just because of the larger base, but because of the 2 pickoff limit. A lot of guys are now stealing a lot of bases. 50 steals, while still very impressive, is not what it was 5 years ago, Last, IMO it is fine to talk about him as a P but it should be honestly acknowledged, he has won more than 10 games once in his career. He has won 10 games twice. Sometimes he is talked about as a great pitcher and IMHO that is not the case. Pedro Martinez has mentioned this frequently.

That would be the Pedro who got the standard 4 days of rest and recovery between starts right? Just want to make sure here because SO has played over 100 games in all but one season in his career and has played over 130 the last four seasons. The fact that he could win 10 games, while playing every day, is something that’s simply stunning and totally unprecedented in modern baseball history.

Now as far as taking defense into account, I agree. But if you take someone like Aaron Judge, simply playing on defense isn’t a relevant factor when it comes to relative value. The Yankees could replaced Judge with a superior defensive player and be a better team. His defensive metrics are decidedly average compared to the rest of the league. Now, someone like peak Mike Trout as a plus as a defender and that added value. Im
Not as hung up on the mere idea of playing defense unless you’re someone like Trout or Lindor who adds significantly with their defense.

 

[Midnighter]

Consider this - if Luis Arraez (SD) doesn't play or hits worse than .300 tonight, and if Ohtani goes 4/4 or 4/5, he wins the Triple Crown (if my math is correct).

 

[Ceasar]

That would be the Pedro who got the standard 4 days of rest and recovery between starts right? Just want to make sure here because SO has played over 100 games in all but one season in his career and has played over 130 the last four seasons. The fact that he could win 10 games, while playing every day, is something that’s simply stunning and totally unprecedented in modern baseball history.

Now as far as taking defense into account, I agree. But if you take someone like Aaron Judge, simply playing on defense isn’t a relevant factor when it comes to relative value. The Yankees could replaced Judge with a superior defensive player and be a better team. His defensive metrics are decidedly average compared to the rest of the league. Now, someone like peak Mike Trout as a plus as a defender and that added value. Im
Not as hung up on the mere idea of playing defense unless you’re someone like Trout or Lindor who adds significantly with their defense.

All good points!

 

[TheTwistedFrog]

Consider this - if Luis Arraez (SD) doesn't play or hits worse than .300 tonight, and if Ohtani goes 4/4 or 4/5, he wins the Triple Crown (if my math is correct).

Regardless, he’s having one of the best seasons we’ve seen in at least the last decade.

As baseball fans, we’re in the middle of an incredibly exciting periods of the sport in a long time. Aaron Judge, SO, Francisco Lindor, Bobby Witt Jr, and others are doing amazing things and bringing excitement.

The Yankees and Dodgers are relevant. The Phillies are going to bring their incredible atmosphere in October.

It’s just a great time for baseball fans.