At first glance, it seems to make some sense, which makes me immediately skeptical.
Right to Record Police
Right to Record Police
OT: Thoughts on this law enforcement bill?
- Thread starter horshack.sixpack
- Start date
Sounds reasonable. I'm a huge supporter of LE, but there are some overly aggressive cops out there who are constantly on edge (or possibly roid raging).
I know a retired MHP patrolman, he has always said he'd rather work with a lazy partner than an aggressive one.
I know a retired MHP patrolman, he has always said he'd rather work with a lazy partner than an aggressive one.
Who cares if they are recorded? The key is not sitting there and acting like a fool and continuing to ask "what did I do" or all that other nonsense people yell, just to be a pain in the arse.
Pass the bill. Don't pass the bill. It doesn't matter, and doesn't help or hurt anything. Waste of time.
Great thread. Would read, paste a useless reply, and waste my time again.
Yeah, I mean... Why change what's working for you?
I'm generally for this. One big problem will be people who post incomplete or edited video on social media that might misrepresent what really happened. But that can be mitigated by requiring all law enforcement to have their own recording devices that run non-stop.
That's never stopped the outrage before. People have their minds made up well before any encounter actually takes place. Many of them are out there begging for it.
Sounds like a reasonable, good faith attempt to codify some common sense into the law.
To quibble, I would at least include a required verbal warning from police prior to allowing a finable charge. I can see cops getting annoyed at being filmed and trick the filmer into violating the 15', or just claiming he did. With a PD and prosecutor hostile to filming cops, this is more of a weapon in their toolbox than a hindrance. Would probably be better to drop the fine altogether and tie punishment to it MAY constitute illegal interference with duties, which leaves the cops with reasonableness standards to meet to charge. For example, your filming from 20' away and a crowd forms behind you. Cops start walking the perp right at you for no reason, you can't back up, you stop filming as quickly as possible, but they claim you just violated the 15' boundary. You have no means to fight the charge. With a reasonableness standard attached, there's no basis for the charge, as you didn't reasonably interfere in their duties.
So, if I'm reading this right, this means:
1. A person not involved in the incident must stand at least 15 feet away from a police officer if recording the police officer on public property (i.e. the street, jail, courthouse, etc.)
2. A person not involved in the incident may be within the 15 foot boundary on private property as long as it doesn't keep the officer from performing their duty (i.e. you couldn't stand between the accused and the officer) or if you're in an unsafe situation (i.e. a shootout, fire, etc.).
3. A person involved in the incident ("the accused") can record without restrictions.
I mean... this all seems reasonable, which almost guarantees it won't get passed and/or pass the courts.
1. A person not involved in the incident must stand at least 15 feet away from a police officer if recording the police officer on public property (i.e. the street, jail, courthouse, etc.)
2. A person not involved in the incident may be within the 15 foot boundary on private property as long as it doesn't keep the officer from performing their duty (i.e. you couldn't stand between the accused and the officer) or if you're in an unsafe situation (i.e. a shootout, fire, etc.).
3. A person involved in the incident ("the accused") can record without restrictions.
I mean... this all seems reasonable, which almost guarantees it won't get passed and/or pass the courts.
I don't think most "what did I do" utterances are nonsense. They are to give the cop a chance to clarify what he needs, so he can't just bluster his way to getting what he wants but isn't entitled to demand. In most cases, the cop is not giving a clear answer, so the question gets repeated.
I'll insert here my refrain that the best reform we could do is Cops Can't Lie. (Exceptions included, such as some allowed interrogation techniques by detectives under recording.) Beat cops can't lie to citizens. That would prevent all these escalating encounters where cops are trying to get more than they are entitled to, and citizens are just trying to do what they are allowed to and no more.
It looks reasonable which is why folks on both sides will hate it with a passion.
15 feet is really, uncomfortably close if there ends up being a physical altercation with a suspect. I’d like it moved back a bit. But the spirit of the bill, I don’t have a problem with. My city’s police department is equipped with body cameras for every officer, along with dashboard cameras. They are required to be activated any time there is an encounter, and there is mandatory discipline when this is violated. At the last round of collective bargaining, there was major pushback on this.
One's perception of 15 feet will always be different than the cops. Thus, it's a ******** requirement.
The other thing that came to mind for me is that while the bystander part of this bill seems pretty cut and dry, I can see where the portion involving the accused could get tricky. For example, if an uncooperative or even belligerent individual is finally detained and this person says "hey, you need to let me get my camera out" while being wrestled to the ground, do the cops have to let him? If cops are accused after an arrest of not letting the perp get his camera out, what then?
I'm not against the spirit of this bill, but I have zero doubt in my mind that any additional right given to the accused will be exploited to the nth degree by defending lawyers to get as many cases thrown out as possible.
cops never move faster than to find a work-around to accountability:
The music was coming from a Santa Ana Police Department patrol SUV at the scene of an auto theft investigation. “You've Got a Friend in Me" from “Toy Story,” "We Don't Talk About Bruno," "Un Poco Loco" and other songs began playing after a YouTuber showed up at the scene and started recording video.
Playing copyrighted music, like the Disney music, can be a tactic to prevent people from posting such videos to social media platforms. The platforms have filters that flag copyrighted material.
Police Play Disney Music Late at Night in Santa Ana Neighborhood
An unruly neighbor wasn’t to blame when the sound of Disney music blared late Monday night in a Santa Ana neighborhood. The loud music was coming from a Santa Ana Police patrol SUV at the scene of an auto theft investigation.
www.nbclosangeles.com
Backup will be helpful in “maintaining” that 15 foot buffer which will necessarily expand as needed by encroaching on the videographer’s location and demanding that the videographer “back up and maintain the required distance.” Just keep encroaching until the videographer is too far to meaningfully capture anything.
You should be able to record cops and it shouldn't be so easy for them to have qualified immunity. But, I can't imagine wanting to be one. They're the only people who have to run towards the guns shots and the downsides--death, injury, PTSD, hatred from ideologically-driven nitwits who have no clue about data and crime and policing in general and the media, unimpressive salary--outweight the benefits for me.
There will always be some bad cops. Hopefully, the good ones outweigh the number of bad ones a hundred to one.
That's exactly how I interpreted it. I think it will prevent the idiots that try to stop police officers from doing their duty. I've seen videos where the police are having to shove the video makers out of the way while they are arresting a suspect.
That's my thinking too. There are, however, already laws against interfering with an incident.
15 feet is plenty close enough for a bystander to record an arrest/incident. That's only 5 yards! Everything they need to see or hear can be picked up from that distance. Any closer and they'd really become a distraction to the officers trying to perform their job.
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