OT: WNBA lost $40 million this year...NBA owners getting antsy

[18IsTheMan]

This was very surprising to me after hearing reports all season of record attendance and viewership. On the upside, in the preseason they were expected to lose $50 million, so I guess you can say they outperformed. It's hard to imagine them replicating the kind of hype they had this year with Clark and Reese coming into the league. This seemed like THE year to really capitalize, but losing $40 million is still a dismal financial showing.

NBA owners, unsurprisingly since they are all businessmen, are starting to press on when they can expect to see some return on their investment. I have to wonder, though, if you're still losing $40 million after 27 seasons, is it reasonable to ever expect a ROI?

It's an extreme longshot that it ever becomes profitable. After 27 seasons and with highly aggressive marketing, they aren't even sniffing the break even point. On the exceedingly slim and miraculous chance that it did attain profitability, it will never be profitable enough that the NBA will ever recoup even a small fraction of what they've invested.

Reading Silver's comments, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, there is zero financial viability for the WNBA. It exists 100% because the NBA funds it. On the other hand, there's zero chance the NBA could ever just say "hey, we gave this thing nearly 30 years and it's just not financially viable, we're pulling the plug." They would be crucified if they made a business decision to discontinue an unprofitable product. So they're just kind of stuck, it seems, funding this losing venture indefinitely.

WNBA to lose ‘US$40m’ in 2024 season, NBA won’t see returns ‘for years’ - SportsPro

NBA investors growing impatient after pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into WNBA, according to New York Post.

www.sportspromedia.com

 

[18IsTheMan]

Also, you have to admit, it's quite hilarious that WNBA players have floated the idea of a strike for higher pay after their product just lost $40 million.

 

[Lurker123]

And the women are opting out of the agreement too.

Interesting. Our company is hemorrhaging cash, we've never once been profitable, but we want to set up for a strike for more money.

 

[18IsTheMan]

And the women are opting out of the agreement too.

Interesting. Our company is hemorrhaging cash, we've never once been profitable, but we want to set up for a strike for more money.

Bizzare, right?

 

[muscleknight]

They could just fold it into the NBA and field mixed teams of males and females.

 

[18IsTheMan]

They could just fold it into the NBA and field mixed teams of males and females.

Shoot, I might actually watch the NBA then.

Or maybe it could be like a concert or comedian who has a warm-up act. The ladies could warm up the crowd.

 

[Piscis]

But we've been told over and over how popular women's sports are. How can this be?

NBA owners should pull the band aid off quickly and just announce they won't be putting any more money into this losing venture. The criticism would be loud and angry but it would die down pretty quickly, not too many people care enough about women's basketball for the outrage to last very long. Let the WNBA figure out how to make it or shut it down. As things are; the WNBA is nothing more than affirmative action for women's basketball.

Shoot, I might actually watch the NBA then.

Or maybe it could be like a concert or comedian who has a warm-up act. The ladies could warm up the crowd.

Like girls basketball in HS, play the women's game on the same court before the men's game with admission included in the men's game ticket.

 

[18IsTheMan]

But we've been told over and over how popular women's sports are. How can this be?

NBA owners should pull the band aid off quickly and just announce they won't be putting any more money into this losing venture. The criticism would be loud and angry but it would die down pretty quickly, not too many people care enough about women's basketball for the outrage to last very long. Let the WNBA figure out how to make it or shut it down. As things are; the WNBA is nothing more than affirmative action for women's basketball.

Like girls basketball in HS, play the women's game on the same court before the men's game with admission included in the men's game ticket.

Seriously. I mean, how long do you have to give it before you can say it's long enough? It's not like they're canning after 3 seasons.

This league was started when I was a couple years out of high school. Some of my classmates have grandkids now.

As political as the NBA is, though, and with the money they have to burn, there's just no way they'll ever pull the plug.

The wild card is if the owner eventually get fed up enough to force the change.

 

[SouthernBelly]

Seriously. I mean, how long do you have to give it before you can say it's long enough? It's not like they're canning after 3 seasons.

This league was started when I was a couple years out of high school. Some of my classmates have grandkids now.

As political as the NBA is, though, and with the money they have to burn, there's just no way they'll ever pull the plug.

The wild card is if the owner eventually get fed up enough to force the change.

Seems like they gave it 26 seasons too long. As I said elsewhere - women don't even care about women's basketball.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Seems like they gave it 26 seasons too long. As I said elsewhere - women don't even care about women's basketball.

Though, presumably, that's the main argument in favor of the WNBA. Basically, it's just marketing to increase the female fan base.

 

[18IsTheMan]

It's just hard for me to see the WNBA being much more popular than it was this year. It would have to get A LOT more popular just to break even.

 

[Piscis]

It's just hard for me to see the WNBA being much more popular than it was this year. It would have to get A LOT more popular just to break even.

I don't think any sport in history has had as much marketing and hype pushed on the public trying to generate a following than women's basketball. Even with all of the pushing, people just don't care about it.

Women's tennis is about the only women's sport the public cares much about.

 

[scbeachboy]

I'm no tax expert but something tells me there must be some kind of tax incentive for them to keep pouring this kind of money into a losing product. During a brief stint in real estate sales at Lightkeepers Village in Little River, SC I had a guy come in that I couldn't help because I didn't have anything that cost enough to get him what he needed. He said he needed to spend $4.400 a month or he would lose it. I've never had that problem so I have no idea how that works but that's why I think it's a tax write off somehow.

 

[PrestonyteParrot]

I'm no tax expert but something tells me there must be some kind of tax incentive for them to keep pouring this kind of money into a losing product. During a brief stint in real estate sales at Lightkeepers Village in Little River, SC I had a guy come in that I couldn't help because I didn't have anything that cost enough to get him what he needed. He said he needed to spend $4.400 a month or he would lose it. I've never had that problem so I have no idea how that works but that's why I think it's a tax write off somehow.

Tax write-off has to be the answer

 

[Lurker123]

I'm not sure the NBA could ever pull the plug. They would be massacred by the press.

Then again, with our attention spans, it might last one season.

It would be interesting to see these ladies' reactions if they were asked to stand on their own two feet.

 

[I4CtheFuture]

I'm not sure the NBA could ever pull the plug. They would be massacred by the press.

Then again, with our attention spans, it might last one season.

It would be interesting to see these ladies' reactions if they were asked to stand on their own two feet.

My brain to my typing fingers...... "Don't do it.... Don't do it..... put the keyboard down."

 

[adcoop]

This was very surprising to me after hearing reports all season of record attendance and viewership. On the upside, in the preseason they were expected to lose $50 million, so I guess you can say they outperformed. It's hard to imagine them replicating the kind of hype they had this year with Clark and Reese coming into the league. This seemed like THE year to really capitalize, but losing $40 million is still a dismal financial showing.

NBA owners, unsurprisingly since they are all businessmen, are starting to press on when they can expect to see some return on their investment. I have to wonder, though, if you're still losing $40 million after 27 seasons, is it reasonable to ever expect a ROI?

It's an extreme longshot that it ever becomes profitable. After 27 seasons and with highly aggressive marketing, they aren't even sniffing the break even point. On the exceedingly slim and miraculous chance that it did attain profitability, it will never be profitable enough that the NBA will ever recoup even a small fraction of what they've invested.

Reading Silver's comments, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, there is zero financial viability for the WNBA. It exists 100% because the NBA funds it. On the other hand, there's zero chance the NBA could ever just say "hey, we gave this thing nearly 30 years and it's just not financially viable, we're pulling the plug." They would be crucified if they made a business decision to discontinue an unprofitable product. So they're just kind of stuck, it seems, funding this losing venture indefinitely.

WNBA to lose ‘US$40m’ in 2024 season, NBA won’t see returns ‘for years’ - SportsPro

NBA investors growing impatient after pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into WNBA, according to New York Post.

www.sportspromedia.com

Money is made in professional sports in the television and media deals. Until the networks and advertisers see that the product is in demand media wise, the real money won't come in TV dollars. Attendance sales and Merch is nice, but as you can see that struggles to even keep the lights on.

 

[vacock]

Blame it on the women who don’t attend. You can bring a horse to water but …

 

[adcoop]

WNBA needs more than Caitlin Clark being a good player. They need for her to be on teams good enough to make deep playoff runs for several years. For example, the WNBA Finals drew an average viewership of 1.57 mil. That was a record for them. However, the NBA with an infrastructure that has been built over decades averaged 11.1 Mil a game and that number was down a little bit from 2023. These are the numbers that advertisers look at in making a determination on throwing dollars at a sport.

 

[vacock]

They need women interested enough in the sport to pay money. Not going to happen.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I'm not sure the NBA could ever pull the plug. They would be massacred by the press.

Then again, with our attention spans, it might last one season.

It would be interesting to see these ladies' reactions if they were asked to stand on their own two feet.

That’s the thing. They would get crucified in the media, but it wouldn’t last. News moves too fast and people have such very short attention spans. We had a presidential candidate come within an inch of being assassinated on live tv and it was totally out of the news cycle in less than a week.

 

[Forkcock]

If there’s no difference between men & women, those gals could just tryout for an NBA team.

 

[PFUNK Cock]

Also, you have to admit, it's quite hilarious that WNBA players have floated the idea of a strike for higher pay after their product just lost $40 million.

This entire narrative is shortsighted and without merit. The reason the WNBA would receive any negative balance has more to do with upper level management undervaluation of the product with media rights . The players should sue. The produce is very good but the advertising and marketing sucked and that is what lead to a downfall. Not player salaries because that is well below market value. Attendance records and quality basketball is what the players brought. What did management do?

 

[Lurker123]

This entire narrative is shortsighted and without merit. The reason the WNBA would receive any negative balance has more to do with upper level management undervaluation of the product with media rights . The players should sue. The produce is very good but the advertising and marketing sucked and that is what lead to a downfall. Not player salaries because that is well below market value. Attendance records and quality basketball is what the players brought. What did management do?

Is the advertising and marketing really that bad? I see a LOT of advertising for it.

Maybe the product is just vastly inferior to the other option?

Occams razor and all.

I'm not sure their salaries can be below market value when their "company" can't even break even.

 

[18IsTheMan]

This entire narrative is shortsighted and without merit. The reason the WNBA would receive any negative balance has more to do with upper level management undervaluation of the product with media rights . The players should sue. The produce is very good but the advertising and marketing sucked and that is what lead to a downfall. Not player salaries because that is well below market value. Attendance records and quality basketball is what the players brought. What did management do?

lol, so in your opinion, the only reason the WNBA is still losing tens of millions of dollars nearly 30 years after its inception is solely because marketing and advertising is bad?

 

[PFUNK Cock]

lol, so in your opinion, the only reason the WNBA is still losing tens of millions of dollars nearly 30 years after its inception is solely because marketing and advertising is bad?

That has been the issue all along. Media money or the lack there of. How do you think the NBA is so successful? They have tremendous media rights .

 

[PFUNK Cock]

Is the advertising and marketing really that bad? I see a LOT of advertising for it.

Maybe the product is just vastly inferior to the other option?

Occams razor and all.

I'm not sure their salaries can be below market value when their "company" can't even break even.

You see it now with players like Clark and Reese with their following. There’s more interest in Woman’s basketball than those in charge of media platforms were aware of. If you think the league is truly worried at this time think again. All of women’s basketball will be better compensated and you will see a major influx of investment in the league .

 

[b-flag]

lol, so in your opinion, the only reason the WNBA is still losing tens of millions of dollars nearly 30 years after its inception is solely because marketing and advertising is bad?

X loses money
truth social loses money
i do not see the hand wringing obsession about that
but womens basketball draws attention
nobody is forcing you to watch or observe
regal us with tales of bowling

 

[Cackmandu]

It would seem to me the more viewers you have the better media deal you get, it's not that hard to figure out. But striking for better pay in a league that's losing money doesn't seem like the answer.

 

[Lurker123]

You see it now with players like Clark and Reese with their following. There’s more interest in Woman’s basketball than those in charge of media platforms were aware of. If you think the league is truly worried at this time think again. All of women’s basketball will be better compensated and you will see a major influx of investment in the league .

I tend to look at it differently. I see media blitzes, constant news clippings and constant sportscasters talking about a sport, trying to drum up interest for it.

And I see that support sorely lacking, hence the bad media deals.

Do TV execs really give out deals based on marketing, or on viewership? I personally think it's based on viewership.

But I agree with you that the league is not worried in any way. They know they'll lose money, and they know they'll pay the players more to avoid the media blitz of "equal pay". And we all know the NBA will simply foot the bill.

 

[KingWard]

They could just fold it into the NBA and field mixed teams of males and females.

Some people will want that. Some people will want the transsexuals with mad balling skills in there also.

 

[SouthernBelly]

X loses money
truth social loses money
i do not see the hand wringing obsession about that
but womens basketball draws attention
nobody is forcing you to watch or observe
regal us with tales of bowling

Sounds like the NBA should also fund X and truth social then.

 

[atl-cock]

You see it now with players like Clark and Reese with their following. There’s more interest in Woman’s basketball than those in charge of media platforms were aware of. If you think the league is truly worried at this time think again. All of women’s basketball will be better compensated and you will see a major influx of investment in the league .

Tax writeoffs and goodwill. Downplay goodwill if you insist, but the publicity Staley has brought to USC has been worth the investment. Must be something similar as to why the MNBA keeps funding the WNBA.

 

[FootballLVR]

If there’s no difference between men & women, those gals could just tryout for an NBA team.

That is the loophole to use. It’s not called the MNBA.

 

[FootballLVR]

That has been the issue all along. Media money or the lack there of. How do you think the NBA is so successful? They have tremendous media rights .

They have tremendous media rights because they get 10 times the viewers as the WNBA.

 

[Lurker123]

They have tremendous media rights because they get 10 times the viewers as the WNBA.

I think this is what is being missed.

The difference in the NBA and WNBA contracts is not due to different negotiating, but the fact that the NBA has such a larger audience, and has for a long time.

 

[PFUNK Cock]

They have tremendous media rights because they get 10 times the viewers as the WNBA.

And thus you have the nexus of the problem. Why are the WNBA media rights so poor? They have a great product and the salaries are minimal compared to the NBA. TNT might check I. And start showing their games now that the NBA has gone to ESPN. Fox can also jump in along with Amazon and others . Media rights will lead to more sponsorships from commercial rights and therefore they will have more money to spread around and become solvent

 

[Lurker123]

And thus you have the nexus of the problem. Why are the WNBA media rights so poor? They have a great produce and the salaries are minimal compared to the NBA.

Do they have a "great product"?

And we should not compare them to the NBA. The NBA is financing themselves and the WNBA at the same time.

 

[Lurker123]

Found this interesting article.

NBA vs WNBA: Revenue, Salaries, Attendance, Ratings

How does the WNBA stack against the NBA in terms of revenue, salaries, attendance and ratings? WSN launches into a comparison of the NBA and the WNBA!

www.wsn.com

Some things that jumped out to me was the sheer volume of more games played by the NBA, compared to the WNBA. In both the season and playoffs.

With the massive attendance difference thrown on top of the massive number of games discrepancy, on top of the massive viewership difference, one can see why there is a revenue difference that isn't because of marketing.

 

[PFUNK Cock]

Do they have a "great product"?

And we should not compare them to the NBA. The NBA is financing themselves and the WNBA at the same time.

They are playing fewer games because they defer to the NBA for winter ball because the stadiums are in use. I believe TNT and TBS may get more involved along with offshoots Tru Tv. This season they had a contract with ION TV along with some games on Amazon Prime. The league is expanding by one team for 2026 and plan to add two others . They are expanding the Championship series to best of 7. Meanwhile they have developed a 3X3 league that will begin play in January that will help to enhance their income. On the NBA side they are trying to expand to play games over seas in China of all places. Look for Canada to get one of the franchises and maybe Tennessee.