Phil and Jed talked DT position today

[blion72]

they talked about the need for the PJ 1-T DT replacement. They did mention Caleb Artis as the one player on the roster who fits the mold. We have known about him, but there was the question about depth and how we get there. They then went to the talk DT in general and highlighted the great group of 3-T DTs we have, some who are DE sized. They indicated we will be looking in the portal after spring ball. They also said there is nobody suggesting the movement of OL player to DT, which has been done before (Thorpe was the last one).

Ryan Snyder has suggested that there is a small population of these guys coming out of HS, and almost all of them are in the South - and want to stay in the south. He also said the few that are in the North, seem to want to play in the South. If all that is true, then recruiting is going to be difficult. It is worth noting that for some reason that some other BIG schools do have these guys (i.e. Illinois).

in any case it seems like we would then have only a few choices in years where we find nobody on the roster to fit this role:

1. We just play smaller, and use the system to create what we need. This might just be what Manny prefers - use speed to offset size.
2. Use option #1 and possibly play bigger super sized LB (i.e. some teams might have played Tarburton or Fisher at Mike LB).
3. Move OL player to DT - right now we are pretty deep with 4# OL players, and some are going to get little to no PT. Maybe one of them will fit. If this is an option now, it certainly is not stated by the coaches.

Manny is possibly the best DC going, so sure he will do whatever works. Right now looks like #1. Clearly it works against many teams, and maybe UMich was just an odd situation that would not have occurred if we played them at the end of the season.

are there other defensive options? what are the pros and cons in terms of winning BIG and going to CFB Playoff?

 

[psuno1]

Tarburton declared for the NFL, If you want to stuff the run use Artis and Izzard if Artis is ready to see the field.

 

[PSUJam]

they talked about the need for the PJ 1-T DT replacement. They did mention Caleb Artis as the one player on the roster who fits the mold. We have known about him, but there was the question about depth and how we get there. They then went to the talk DT in general and highlighted the great group of 3-T DTs we have, some who are DE sized. They indicated we will be looking in the portal after spring ball. They also said there is nobody suggesting the movement of OL player to DT, which has been done before (Thorpe was the last one).

Ryan Snyder has suggested that there is a small population of these guys coming out of HS, and almost all of them are in the South - and want to stay in the south. He also said the few that are in the North, seem to want to play in the South. If all that is true, then recruiting is going to be difficult. It is worth noting that for some reason that some other BIG schools do have these guys (i.e. Illinois).

in any case it seems like we would then have only a few choices in years where we find nobody on the roster to fit this role:

1. We just play smaller, and use the system to create what we need. This might just be what Manny prefers - use speed to offset size.
2. Use option #1 and possibly play bigger super sized LB (i.e. some teams might have played Tarburton or Fisher at Mike LB).
3. Move OL player to DT - right now we are pretty deep with 4# OL players, and some are going to get little to no PT. Maybe one of them will fit. If this is an option now, it certainly is not stated by the coaches.

Manny is possibly the best DC going, so sure he will do whatever works. Right now looks like #1. Clearly it works against many teams, and maybe UMich was just an odd situation that would not have occurred if we played them at the end of the season.

are there other defensive options? what are the pros and cons in terms of winning BIG and going to CFB Playoff?

Start here.

Deyvid Palepale - Michigan Wolverines - Defensive Line

Explore Deyvid Palepale's athlete profile at On3.com. Get news and insights into his playing career, statistics, and achievements in sports.

www.on3.com

 

[Meteor-Lion]

Start here.

Deyvid Palepale - Michigan Wolverines - Defensive Line

Explore Deyvid Palepale's athlete profile at On3.com. Get news and insights into his playing career, statistics, and achievements in sports.

www.on3.com

Hempfield High School is in Landisville, PA (Lancaster County) not Lansdale, PA (Montgomery County. There was some talk that this kid may have enrolled at IMG?

 

[GrimReaper]

they talked about the need for the PJ 1-T DT replacement. They did mention Caleb Artis as the one player on the roster who fits the mold. We have known about him, but there was the question about depth and how we get there. They then went to the talk DT in general and highlighted the great group of 3-T DTs we have, some who are DE sized. They indicated we will be looking in the portal after spring ball. They also said there is nobody suggesting the movement of OL player to DT, which has been done before (Thorpe was the last one).

Ryan Snyder has suggested that there is a small population of these guys coming out of HS, and almost all of them are in the South - and want to stay in the south. He also said the few that are in the North, seem to want to play in the South. If all that is true, then recruiting is going to be difficult. It is worth noting that for some reason that some other BIG schools do have these guys (i.e. Illinois).

in any case it seems like we would then have only a few choices in years where we find nobody on the roster to fit this role:

1. We just play smaller, and use the system to create what we need. This might just be what Manny prefers - use speed to offset size.
2. Use option #1 and possibly play bigger super sized LB (i.e. some teams might have played Tarburton or Fisher at Mike LB).
3. Move OL player to DT - right now we are pretty deep with 4# OL players, and some are going to get little to no PT. Maybe one of them will fit. If this is an option now, it certainly is not stated by the coaches.

Manny is possibly the best DC going, so sure he will do whatever works. Right now looks like #1. Clearly it works against many teams, and maybe UMich was just an odd situation that would not have occurred if we played them at the end of the season.

are there other defensive options? what are the pros and cons in terms of winning BIG and going to CFB Playoff?

The geography explanation has some superficial appeal, but looking deeper into it it's a BS excuse.

 

[s1uggo72]

they talked about the need for the PJ 1-T DT replacement. They did mention Caleb Artis as the one player on the roster who fits the mold. We have known about him, but there was the question about depth and how we get there. They then went to the talk DT in general and highlighted the great group of 3-T DTs we have, some who are DE sized. They indicated we will be looking in the portal after spring ball. They also said there is nobody suggesting the movement of OL player to DT, which has been done before (Thorpe was the last one).

Ryan Snyder has suggested that there is a small population of these guys coming out of HS, and almost all of them are in the South - and want to stay in the south. He also said the few that are in the North, seem to want to play in the South. If all that is true, then recruiting is going to be difficult. It is worth noting that for some reason that some other BIG schools do have these guys (i.e. Illinois).

in any case it seems like we would then have only a few choices in years where we find nobody on the roster to fit this role:

1. We just play smaller, and use the system to create what we need. This might just be what Manny prefers - use speed to offset size.
2. Use option #1 and possibly play bigger super sized LB (i.e. some teams might have played Tarburton or Fisher at Mike LB).
3. Move OL player to DT - right now we are pretty deep with 4# OL players, and some are going to get little to no PT. Maybe one of them will fit. If this is an option now, it certainly is not stated by the coaches.

Manny is possibly the best DC going, so sure he will do whatever works. Right now looks like #1. Clearly it works against many teams, and maybe UMich was just an odd situation that would not have occurred if we played them at the end of the season.

are there other defensive options? what are the pros and cons in terms of winning BIG and going to CFB Playoff?

Options would be to line up fundamentally sound , which we did not do vs UM. Go look at the film
You could play 2 2T DT
Or you could play 2 3 T DT like Joe did yrs ago.
don’t force a square peg into a round hole
But start w being fundamentally sound on every snap

 

[VaDave4PSU]

The geography explanation has some superficial appeal, but looking deeper into it it's a BS excuse.

Sometimes you just have to mold these guys. Take a 3* with the height weight and beef him up. Easier to bulk a 290 lbs kid to 325 than 265-275 lbs kids. Or cut and reshape 350 lbs kids into 330 lbs guys.

There is a reason that OL recruits are so hard to project and it seems that outside of a few, the rating services don't rate as many big 1T DTs as high at they do OTs: you can't predict how these kids will handle not being the biggest and strongest guy around once they leave HS.

 

[Pocono Lion]

Hempfield High School is in Landisville, PA (Lancaster County) not Lansdale, PA (Montgomery County. There was some talk that this kid may have enrolled at IMG?

He announced he was going to IMG, then backed off on it.

 

[GrimReaper]

Sometimes you just have to mold these guys. Take a 3* with the height weight and beef him up. Easier to bulk a 290 lbs kid to 325 than 265-275 lbs kids. Or cut and reshape 350 lbs kids into 330 lbs guys.

There is a reason that OL recruits are so hard to project and it seems that outside of a few, the rating services don't rate as many big 1T DTs as high at they do OTs: you can't predict how these kids will handle not being the biggest and strongest guy around once they leave HS.

Agree. Kids who are big enough and athletic enough to become dominant DTs aren't in ready abundance. Sometime you gotta project (take a flyer) and hope that you can develop a prospect. Alternative is what sluggo suggests.

 

[Tchains23]

Sometimes you just have to mold these guys. Take a 3* with the height weight and beef him up. Easier to bulk a 290 lbs kid to 325 than 265-275 lbs kids. Or cut and reshape 350 lbs kids into 330 lbs guys.

There is a reason that OL recruits are so hard to project and it seems that outside of a few, the rating services don't rate as many big 1T DTs as high at they do OTs: you can't predict how these kids will handle not being the biggest and strongest guy around once they leave HS.

Easier said than done. Of the current top 50 DTs in 2024, 11 are listed at 290+

 

[JakkL]

Hempfield High School is in Landisville, PA (Lancaster County) not Lansdale, PA (Montgomery County.

I have older brothers who live in each of those 2 towns.

 

[Phlebitis]

I have older brothers who live in each of those 2 towns.

That must have been confusing.

 

[Blair10]

they talked about the need for the PJ 1-T DT replacement. They did mention Caleb Artis as the one player on the roster who fits the mold. We have known about him, but there was the question about depth and how we get there. They then went to the talk DT in general and highlighted the great group of 3-T DTs we have, some who are DE sized. They indicated we will be looking in the portal after spring ball. They also said there is nobody suggesting the movement of OL player to DT, which has been done before (Thorpe was the last one).

Ryan Snyder has suggested that there is a small population of these guys coming out of HS, and almost all of them are in the South - and want to stay in the south. He also said the few that are in the North, seem to want to play in the South. If all that is true, then recruiting is going to be difficult. It is worth noting that for some reason that some other BIG schools do have these guys (i.e. Illinois).

in any case it seems like we would then have only a few choices in years where we find nobody on the roster to fit this role:

1. We just play smaller, and use the system to create what we need. This might just be what Manny prefers - use speed to offset size.
2. Use option #1 and possibly play bigger super sized LB (i.e. some teams might have played Tarburton or Fisher at Mike LB).
3. Move OL player to DT - right now we are pretty deep with 4# OL players, and some are going to get little to no PT. Maybe one of them will fit. If this is an option now, it certainly is not stated by the coaches.

Manny is possibly the best DC going, so sure he will do whatever works. Right now looks like #1. Clearly it works against many teams, and maybe UMich was just an odd situation that would not have occurred if we played them at the end of the season.

are there other defensive options? what are the pros and cons in terms of winning BIG and going to CFB Playoff?

I think the concerns about PSU DTs are being exaggerated. If you examine the NFL rosters of every team, I doubt all of them consist of only former 5 star college DLs from southern colleges. There is a difference between perception, and facts supported by data. If someone could provide some real DL facts and analysis instead of conjecture, that would be helpful.

I think the PSU DTs are good enough which is most times all that is needed. In the Michigan game last year, the entire defense was physically manhandled (not just the DTs). Plus, the PSU defense staff was badly out-coached in the Michigan game. I have bigger concerns about our current Mike LBs who have trouble with tackling and pass coverage.

Lastly, moving an OL player to the DL only makes sense when there are not enough DLs to physically play. PSU is no where near that situation. They don’t need bodies, they need more difference makers and that is true for several positions on defense not just DT.

 

[blion72]

I think the concerns about PSU DTs are being exaggerated. If you examine the NFL rosters of every team, I doubt all of them consist of only former 5 star college DLs from southern colleges. There is a difference between perception, and facts supported by data. If someone could provide some real DL facts and analysis instead of conjecture, that would be helpful.

I think the PSU DTs are good enough which is most times all that is needed. In the Michigan game last year, the entire defense was physically manhandled (not just the DTs). Plus, the PSU defense staff was badly out-coached in the Michigan game. I have bigger concerns about our current Mike LBs who have trouble with tackling and pass coverage.

Lastly, moving an OL player to the DL only makes sense when there are not enough DLs to physically play. PSU is no where near that situation. They don’t need bodies, they need more difference makers and that is true for several positions on defense not just DT.

good points. regarding the recruiting - Ryan did look at the top 20 HS DT's and 18 were in the southern states or Cal. That of course could be recruiter analyst bias as this is not a science. I think LJ had a track record of getting in decent sized 2/3* players and developing them as they grew.

James said we need to get bigger on defense. do you think he meant DT, or over several positions? i dont think he actually was specific.

we did play a different style of DEF at the end, and the umich game would not likely have looked like that if played again. I think the other side of the UMich game was their QB runs that converted mid-range 3rd downs. that was not a DT problem. at the end of the season #11 would have ended that story.

 

[GrimReaper]

good points. regarding the recruiting - Ryan did look at the top 20 HS DT's and 18 were in the southern states or Cal. That of course could be recruiter analyst bias as this is not a science. I think LJ had a track record of getting in decent sized 2/3* players and developing them as they grew.

James said we need to get bigger on defense. do you think he meant DT, or over several positions? i dont think he actually was specific.

we did play a different style of DEF at the end, and the umich game would not likely have looked like that if played again. I think the other side of the UMich game was their QB runs that converted mid-range 3rd downs. that was not a DT problem. at the end of the season #11 would have ended that story.

He was talking DT after being crushed by Michigan. It's his "flavor of the week" habit.

 

[GregInPitt]

I think the concerns about PSU DTs are being exaggerated. If you examine the NFL rosters of every team, I doubt all of them consist of only former 5 star college DLs from southern colleges. There is a difference between perception, and facts supported by data. If someone could provide some real DL facts and analysis instead of conjecture, that would be helpful.

I think the PSU DTs are good enough which is most times all that is needed. In the Michigan game last year, the entire defense was physically manhandled (not just the DTs). Plus, the PSU defense staff was badly out-coached in the Michigan game. I have bigger concerns about our current Mike LBs who have trouble with tackling and pass coverage.

Lastly, moving an OL player to the DL only makes sense when there are not enough DLs to physically play. PSU is no where near that situation. They don’t need bodies, they need more difference makers and that is true for several positions on defense not just DT.

Yep, as I posted within a similar discusson on the other site, the PSU DE's are considerably more undersized in relation to the best college football defenses as compared to the PSU DT's. PSU won't stop the best college running games with 240 lb DE's (Robinson and Isaac in 2022) no matter how "big" the DT's are. PSU's DT's will be better in 2023 than they were when PJ was out the last 2/3rds of 2021 as this year's starters are mainly the players that filled in when PJ was out in 2021 and they are now 2 years more experienced and also stronger from 2 years in the PSU S&C and Nutrition programs.

As you said, the whole defense, and particularly the front 7, needs to be big, physical and sure tackling to stop a running game like UM had in 2022. And my memories of the PSU Mike LB's in that game are mainly of Elsdon on the ground watching the UM RB's run by.

Hopefully Isaac and Robinson make some gains in size in the S&C program, and players that are bigger and will also gain strength in the S&C program such as Vanover and DDS will also step up against the run in 2023. Oh-high-ya's starting DE's are mostly 270+lbs by comparison.

And the LB's were not a final 2022 product against UM with Carter still substituting and finding his way somewhat, and King and Elsdon not up to the task. The 2023 LB's should be a better unit with Jacobs 100% back to Sam, Carter settled in at Mike and playing at an All-B10 level, and King and Elsdon improved and being pushed by Robinson.

Franklin can't possibly put all the "size" issue on the DT's, but he knows he under recruited the position the last 2 years and that an incoming transfer DT will also be insurance against injuries given the limited DT roster. He also has to know the issue is the whole front 7, which should be vastly improved in comparison to the PSU front 7 that lined up against UM in 2022.

 

[JakkL]

Correct. After the UM game Carter and Jacob's swapped and Carter became a full time player. I think people are reading way to much into the UM game. It was a horrible performance by the DL and LBs on gap security against the best OL that UM has had in many years. If we played them again later in the season it would not have played out the same way.

 

[VaDave4PSU]

It was a horrible performance by the DL and LBs on gap security against the best OL that UM has had in many years.

Bingo. Michigan was able to block our DEs with TEs allowing them to pull the interior OL and block our LBs and secondary.

We need a package where we kick out our undersized DTs to DE for potent power rushing teams like Michigan if we aren't going to recruit more 5T type DEs. Tarburton was the closest DE we had last year and he was overeat overmatched in that game. DDS looks like the type we need, but he was a true freshman last year. He should be greatly improved this coming year.

For all the talk about DTs, I'd like to find a Mike in the portal if one comes available that could improve the room.

 

[Phil Grosz]

Hempfield High School is in Landisville, PA (Lancaster County) not Lansdale, PA (Montgomery County. There was some talk that this kid may have enrolled at IMG?

You are 100-percent correct Hempfield H.S. is located in Landisville, Pa. in Lancaster County just off of route 283 just six miles west of Lancaster. I grew up in the area in Brunnerville a small town just north of Lititz and attended Warwick H.S located in Lititz.

Fully aware of the quality football and basketball played in the Lebanon-Lancaster League. There is no question in my mind that Deyvid Palepale [6-3, 305] is the best DT to emerge from the Lebanon-Lancaster League since Jared Odrick [6-5, 280] who played his high school football at Lebanon H.S., was an All-Big Ten DT at Penn State and was drafted in the 1st round of the 2010 NFL Draft by Miami as a strongside DE.

Palepale was not born in Lancaster area, but moved to the area when his family moved to the Lancaster area from either I believe from Alaska or Hawaii. Palepale has a Samoan heritage and I talked about him here in the Lions Den I believe before the start of the 2022 season. I believe Penn State offered Palepale back in either August or September of last year. Not surprised at all Palepale has now received an offer from Ohio State.

Penn State, Temple, Rutgers, Maryland and Louisville were the first FBS programs to offer Palepale. In the last three months Palepale's offer list has exploded. Besides Ohio State, Pitt, Michigan, Cincinnati, Kentucky, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Washington, Miami and USC have offered Palepale.

I'm biased but I believe Palepale is a must get for Penn State in the class of 2024 at a position of need on Penn State's defense. Not sure if Palepale has transferred to IMG Academy.

 

[s1uggo72]

Bingo. Michigan was able to block our DEs with TEs allowing them to pull the interior OL and block our LBs and secondary.

We need a package where we kick out our undersized DTs to DE for potent power rushing teams like Michigan if we aren't going to recruit more 5T type DEs. Tarburton was the closest DE we had last year and he was overeat overmatched in that game. DDS looks like the type we need, but he was a true freshman last year. He should be greatly improved this coming year.

For all the talk about DTs, I'd like to find a Mike in the portal if one comes available that could improve the room.

Duh!! Of course they blocked our DE w TE out DE were defeated by alignment. Manny had them on contain despite the fact they were lined up inside of them!! Any TE can make that block on any DE
By