91, 104, 101, 108, 92, 90, 97. Dohm is the third one. His pitch counts for the year have been 66, 93, 78, and 101. For everyone blaming Lemonis or the pitching coach, he's right there in the range of other SEC Friday starters last night. I hope he's OK, and if he's not Lemonis chances of saving his job just got a lot lower. But it's not like we were somehow abusing him any more than other coaches use their pitchers. Just bad luck.
Pitch counts for SEC starting pitchers last night (excluding those who gave up a lot of runs and left due to performance).
- Thread starter patdog
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Yeah 100 with no stressful innings he should be able to handle. If he’s going to be a starter in this league that’s a non issue.
real question to me is, we moved sims from reliver to starter and this happens, same move with dohm.
real question to me is, we moved sims from reliver to starter and this happens, same move with dohm.
All pitchers are starters. Relievers are just starters who aren’t good enough to get through a lineup more than once.
I think the real issue with pitchers injuries is the way they've been overused from ages 8-18. By the time they get to college, a lot of those arms are ticking time bombs just waiting to blow.
They are trained and prepped differently. If you’ve been trained and prepped for 3 years to basically empty the tank for 30-40 pitches for 2 nights a week and now you’re having to train for 100-120 for one night. It’s different. Very.
I don’t think they are any more over used that they were back in the day. High schools and even travel ball have pretty strict pitch count limits and innings limits.
I think it’s a velocity thing. Kids now are being trained to throw the ball as hard as possible. And using biomechanics and science to do so. Back in the day kids use to just grab it and throw it as hard as they could without putting the body in uncomfortable positions. hence why you don’t see a lot of soft throwing lefties getting Tommy John
I’ve always wondered how many actual throws are made during a game. This counts warm up pre-game and pre-inning throws. 200-250? Then do they throw any at practice during week? If so, how many 25-50 per practice?
I think I’ve heard Mondays are weight room days. Wonder what equipment is used for conditioning?
I think I’ve heard Mondays are weight room days. Wonder what equipment is used for conditioning?
I think those pitch count limits are routinely ignored or circumvented. I do think you have a very good point about the velocity. Back in the day when an average MLB fastball was 85, they didn't put nearly the stress on the arms as the 95 mph fastballs of today.
I just view it as a car. Take a car that was built to do 85. Then you can that car to specialist in a body shop. He tweaks somethings here and there, now the car goes 95. That’s great and awesome. But nothing else in the car is is built to handle 95, and thus is will eventually spring a leak.
same way with arms and these specialist.
back in the day, no one taught people how to throw hard, and there were less and less injuries
It's more to do with how hard guys throw now. Everybody is over 90 mph now. People are more responsible than you think. But even back 50 years ago, kids were routinely throwing every day. That's not new. It's the hard throwing, chasing metrics that's new. And Dohm is fine, so all this bitching by some was stupid.
I looked at Dohm's pitch counts over his entire time at State. I didn't find an occasion in which he violated the MLB pitch count guidelines:
He pitched 1.2 innings in the 2023 season opener.* The next day he threw 40 pitches. The guidelines recommend at least 1 day of rest after 31-45 pitches.
*-For some reason, the 2023 season opener is the only game without his pitch count, so I don't know his exact pitch count the day before he threw 40 pitches on 0 days rest.
So in 21 career appearances for State, I'm not aware of him ever violating the MLB pitch count guidelines. It's possible he threw 31+ pitches in the 2023 season opener and then pitched next day, which would violate the guidelines, but I couldn't find his pitch count for that day. It's also possible he got 5 outs on fewer than 31 pitches. If you look at his box score, you can assume he didn't throw a ton of pitches: 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB. He also got a double play for 2 of his 5 outs.
ETA: I plugged the data in my spreadsheet wrong, so my original post was off. It's actually better than I originally thought.
*-For some reason, the 2023 season opener is the only game without his pitch count, so I don't know his exact pitch count the day before he threw 40 pitches on 0 days rest.
So in 21 career appearances for State, I'm not aware of him ever violating the MLB pitch count guidelines. It's possible he threw 31+ pitches in the 2023 season opener and then pitched next day, which would violate the guidelines, but I couldn't find his pitch count for that day. It's also possible he got 5 outs on fewer than 31 pitches. If you look at his box score, you can assume he didn't throw a ton of pitches: 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB. He also got a double play for 2 of his 5 outs.
ETA: I plugged the data in my spreadsheet wrong, so my original post was off. It's actually better than I originally thought.
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Have 5 nephews and sons. Have probably been more involved in high school and travel ball baseball over the last 22 years than anyone on this board.
laugh if you choose, but over that time arms have been used less. Heck they didn’t even have pitch count limits until roughly 6-7 years ago
I have little doubt you're right about this. We are pushing the limits of what a human body can do throwing a baseball. Hopefully we find some kind of line and back away from it so fewer kids 17 up their arms for the sake of a game.
Travel ball has hurt the majority of arm injuries. If a kid hasn't started shaving or even he just started they need to not pitch for 3 to 4 months. I got this information from a known surgeon.
Ok man. Sell that nonsense somewhere else.
Not only are they throwing more pitches, they are warming up more, practicing more, taking lessons all the time, and many of those lessons are for the express purpose of raising velo. Then they are on these throwing programs, which are only there to make the coaches feel better about themselves.
I see this all the time, every day. I’m directly involved as many people here are. Truth is the truth.
It’s too much throwing, and too young to be doing it. But whatever, you get your TJ and move on.
In travel ball and high school ball they are throwing less now than before.
if you want t0 say lessons, velo, etc, i agree with that. But the rules for pitching too much has changed a ton over the years, and kids are pitching much less in those sports seasons than ever before. The stats back this up. In high schools they have also shortened practice windows both in the pre seasons and summer, to help give kids that break.
Have they added pitch counts? Some tournament organizations have. And some do innings, which is 17ing stupid.
And the overuse is not just in single A, albeit it is more prevalent there. They do it in AAA too. All the time. Nobody enforces that shlt until you get into the regional tournaments, but it doesn’t matter there because everyone is so good.
And again, those good players may not throw as many pitches, just to check that box, but they are actually throwing much more often, in many places.
This can’t be debated, dude. It’s silly to try.
from the 20 years I’ve been invovled. pitchers pitch less Now in games and summer seasons than years back. Again the stats back this up. Same for high schools. High school Aces 20 years ago threw way more innings than they do now. Heck it was
Common years back to see 1 pitcher start 2 games of a best of 3 series in a high school playoff series.
^ that can’t be debated. It’s fact. Again all stats verify this.
the lessons, velo programs, weighted balls, etc—— i can agree with you on.
I remember one year way back in the day, West Jones was playing Columbus Lee for the state championship. Ronnie Richardson for Lee started game 1 and game 3 and pitched in relief in game 2. Won the series for them.
Shane Bazzeale from New Hope threw 2 games back to back on a Saturday, after they had lost on the Thursday before (best of 3 playoffs back in the 90s). Can you imagine the look on the opposing coach’s face when he thought he’d weathered the storm to game 3? Nope, he comes back out and shuts us down again. 14 innings pitched in total.
Stacy Hester was the OG Arm Killa waaaay before Wes Johnson. He was one of the first to do the year round baseball. Been downhill ever since. Bazzeale never did anything after that, by the way, and that dude had a straight cannon for an arm.
Year round ball is great for position players. Not so much for pitchers. My thought is that they need to mature a little first. Maybe I’m the only one.
Remember that Series.
bazell had a lot of issues other than Stacy Hester as to why his baseball career didn’t pan out... those issues put him behind bars for a period of time. He still may be behind them.
I can see that in high school. I’m talking more at the youth level, 9U-14U. I think that’s where a lot of damage is being done.
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