This is a little before my time so some of the names are unfamiliar. Boy, our offense was extremely limited. But Pitt's wasn't much better. Dorsett sure had that "it" factor, though I thought we actually did a pretty good job of controlling him. I love the way Ray Scott called a game.
Pitt vs. Penn State circa 1975
- Thread starter Madsol
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Thanks for this. They were both ranked teams in that era. This game was a 7-6 barn burner. I was at the 1977 game which was played in a snowstorm. It was almost impossible to see who was doing what. You'd barely see them line up at the LOS and then either nothing happened or someone would break out for an eight yard gain. Pretty memorable, 15-13 win for PSU.
If I recall Matt Millen stuffed the pitt back at the goal line
fun to watch it, and hear names of PSU players I haven't thought of in years.
@OptionBob -- any memories of the PSU team from that year?
Buttle, Hostetler and Alderman at LB. Doesn't get much better than that. Everyone was waiting for Fusina to get his shot, but he didn't really get it till Andress got hurt in '76.
I remember watching those games they were great. IIRC, in '76 we had Dorsett contained in the first half and Majors made a great adjustment and moved him to FB in the 2nd half and he just went wild.
It was interesting to me because when we played FSU in the bowl game and the we moved Austin Scott to FB the same thing happened for us.
I thought maybe 1 or 2 of those games might have been on Black Friday
The '75 team was pretty good overall, outstanding defense, just enough offense for the most part (despite some blossoming NFL talent, but a limited QB in John Andress).
Some memorable games, including the opener at Franklin Field vs. a fired-up Temple team. Rich Mauti (iirc) returned a punt for a TD late in the game to win it. We had a couple big wins against the old "Eastern Independents" affiliates, including an absolute romp of ranked West Virginia and Bobby Bowden (Woody Petchel's biggest day as a PSU RB); lost a tough one at Ohio State and Archie Griffin; got upset at home to Lou Holtz and NC State, partly due to their great call of a late game 3rd down quick kick from deep in their own territory that rolled forever and as a result, we couldn't go the length of the field in time to pull it out. The Pitt win, largely thanks to Pitt's Kicker Carson Long's awful day. Even PSU fans almost felt sorry for him - a very good kicker who missed an Xpt and 3 or 4 FGs, any of which would have prevented the loss. Pitt was loaded, so as mentioned earlier, we had to play lights out to contain Dorsett and company. They were one season away from their great '76 team and their NC.
Then, we were hand-picked by Bear Bryant to play Bama in the Sugar Bowl. The story then was that Bear knew his team wasn't as good as many thought, but felt he could control our offense enough to win. Plus he and Joe were friendly by that time and he extended a favor to a 9-2 PSU team that probably would not have had a major bowl invitation otherwise. Who knows how much of that was actually true? We played them tough, but couldn't score, and they won 13-6.
The PSU players and Bama players became friendly with each other during the pre-game events. They got to know and respect each other, following the example set by Joe and Bear's mutual respect. One of the players in my fraternity got sick the following spring and was hospitalized. He said that somehow the Bama team found out about it, and sent him a gift basket or some such 'thinking of you' gift while he was hospitalized.
I'd have to go back and think about it more and look at the schedule, etc. to recall more. But, it was a good, not great season. Coming off of '74 at 10-2, it seemed like a disappointment at the time. '76 would be worse, ending 7-5, but was the start of Fusina at QB, and one of, if not the best freshmen classes in PSU history, many of whom worked their way into the starting lineup and led to the outstanding '77 and '78 seasons. Give us a playoff in '77, and I like our chances. We were in the title game in '78, and fell short. Both memorable seasons, and I was lucky enough to be there for both (I graduated in Dec. 78).
Some memorable games, including the opener at Franklin Field vs. a fired-up Temple team. Rich Mauti (iirc) returned a punt for a TD late in the game to win it. We had a couple big wins against the old "Eastern Independents" affiliates, including an absolute romp of ranked West Virginia and Bobby Bowden (Woody Petchel's biggest day as a PSU RB); lost a tough one at Ohio State and Archie Griffin; got upset at home to Lou Holtz and NC State, partly due to their great call of a late game 3rd down quick kick from deep in their own territory that rolled forever and as a result, we couldn't go the length of the field in time to pull it out. The Pitt win, largely thanks to Pitt's Kicker Carson Long's awful day. Even PSU fans almost felt sorry for him - a very good kicker who missed an Xpt and 3 or 4 FGs, any of which would have prevented the loss. Pitt was loaded, so as mentioned earlier, we had to play lights out to contain Dorsett and company. They were one season away from their great '76 team and their NC.
Then, we were hand-picked by Bear Bryant to play Bama in the Sugar Bowl. The story then was that Bear knew his team wasn't as good as many thought, but felt he could control our offense enough to win. Plus he and Joe were friendly by that time and he extended a favor to a 9-2 PSU team that probably would not have had a major bowl invitation otherwise. Who knows how much of that was actually true? We played them tough, but couldn't score, and they won 13-6.
The PSU players and Bama players became friendly with each other during the pre-game events. They got to know and respect each other, following the example set by Joe and Bear's mutual respect. One of the players in my fraternity got sick the following spring and was hospitalized. He said that somehow the Bama team found out about it, and sent him a gift basket or some such 'thinking of you' gift while he was hospitalized.
I'd have to go back and think about it more and look at the schedule, etc. to recall more. But, it was a good, not great season. Coming off of '74 at 10-2, it seemed like a disappointment at the time. '76 would be worse, ending 7-5, but was the start of Fusina at QB, and one of, if not the best freshmen classes in PSU history, many of whom worked their way into the starting lineup and led to the outstanding '77 and '78 seasons. Give us a playoff in '77, and I like our chances. We were in the title game in '78, and fell short. Both memorable seasons, and I was lucky enough to be there for both (I graduated in Dec. 78).
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Some pretty notable names that went on to be pretty good NFL Players, Buttle, Allerman, Mauti, Geiss, Milot, Cefalo, Shuler, Benson, Rafferty...not bad.
This would have been a couple years later but Hugh Greene was the best Pitt player I ever saw.
Yeah, Hugh (aka "Huge!") Green was as good a college LB on an opposing team as I ever saw as well. Those Pitt teams in the mid-to-late 70s and early 80s were absolutely loaded. So were we. Those games and battles, especially along the LOS, were epic.
Johnny Majors came to Pitt and, as the legend goes, told his staff they were going to 'cheat like hell' for one season to bring in as many great players as they could. He knew that once Joe found out, he would turn them in and that would stop it. The old Eastern Schools agreement to play by the rules was therefore thrown out the window, for at least one season. And while Dorsett was highly recruited, he was not a strong academic performer, so PSU did not pursue him hard. But many of the Pbgh area guys who ended up at Pitt were recruited hard by PSU. I should note that Joe and Johnny became good friends.
If I recall, both the '76 and '77 games featured Pitt's AA Tom Brzoza at Center, going up against PSU's 1st Team AA Nose Guard (now 1 Technique) Randy Sidler. Both were exceptionally quick off the ball. Both won their share of the individual play-by-play battles. Watching that one-on-one was worth the price of admission.
In '76, both Millen and Clark were still at LB, moving into starting roles about mid-season, and then moved down to DT for the '77 season. The '77 DL of those two, plus Sidler, plus the rest of the DL and the terrific talent behind them, made life miserable for every opponent, as they got better and better as the season went on. That carried over to '78, when basically no one could do anything against our D.
I mentioned above that the offense was limited, but to be fair, most offenses were pretty limited until the rule changes in the 80s that opened up the passing game. Penn State was not unique in the emphasis on the run game (including the I formation, the wishbone, the veer) and in lack of scoring proficiency. Most teams in the major conferences and major independents were pretty much the same that way. There were some exceptions, of course, but look at scores in the Big Ten, the SEC, the old SWC, even the Pac8/10, etc. from most any season prior to about 1983 or '84 when the rules were loosened and coaches figured out how to take advantage of that. Once many of those teams got to 20 points, they were almost assured of winning the game. Innovation came to the run game before the passing game. When the veer and the wishbone came about in the later 60s, most other teams did not know how to to stop it, or simply did not have the players to match up effectively even if they had a good idea of how to stop it, or control it.
PSU's big win over Texas in the 1971 season Cotton Bowl, where we held them to no TDs for the first time in some crazy number of games, was the blueprint for how to control the 'bone... if you had the personnel to do so.
This is why we long-time PSU fans would have loved to see the 1969 PSU-Texas matchup. The 1971 PSU Defense was great, the 1969 defense was better. Give Joe a month, and he could dissect just about any offense or defense, or create something that would give a different look to the other team, who would not have time to counter.
OL were restricted on how they could block, not allowed to use their hands, so the technique was all forearms and shoulders. Offensive holding was a 15 yard penalty, not just 10, and seemingly was called more frequently because of the limited ways an OL could legally block. A 15 yard penalty on O was a drive killer. A great OL and great running game, as PSU almost always had under Joe at that time, was the key to winning. Joe and most coaches believed that you won first on defense, then on special teams, and then on offense. Avoiding mistakes and turnovers was paramount, even more than today. Making the other guy go 80 yards without making a mistake or a turnover was the primary philosophy on D, and doing that vs. the types of defenses and the great players PSU and others put on the field was a tall order.
Once the rules changed to open the O, PSU and others had to adapt. PSU in 1982, even before some of the rules changes took effect, was the first team ever to have more offensive yards passing than running. Joe et. al. knew how to adapt to changing rules, but he and the vast majority of other coaches still believed that the key to winning was through a solid D and a sound running game. That may still be the case today, even in this offense-first era, just knowing that you probably need 35 or 40 points to win most games rather than 17 or 20!
PSU's big win over Texas in the 1971 season Cotton Bowl, where we held them to no TDs for the first time in some crazy number of games, was the blueprint for how to control the 'bone... if you had the personnel to do so.
This is why we long-time PSU fans would have loved to see the 1969 PSU-Texas matchup. The 1971 PSU Defense was great, the 1969 defense was better. Give Joe a month, and he could dissect just about any offense or defense, or create something that would give a different look to the other team, who would not have time to counter.
OL were restricted on how they could block, not allowed to use their hands, so the technique was all forearms and shoulders. Offensive holding was a 15 yard penalty, not just 10, and seemingly was called more frequently because of the limited ways an OL could legally block. A 15 yard penalty on O was a drive killer. A great OL and great running game, as PSU almost always had under Joe at that time, was the key to winning. Joe and most coaches believed that you won first on defense, then on special teams, and then on offense. Avoiding mistakes and turnovers was paramount, even more than today. Making the other guy go 80 yards without making a mistake or a turnover was the primary philosophy on D, and doing that vs. the types of defenses and the great players PSU and others put on the field was a tall order.
Once the rules changed to open the O, PSU and others had to adapt. PSU in 1982, even before some of the rules changes took effect, was the first team ever to have more offensive yards passing than running. Joe et. al. knew how to adapt to changing rules, but he and the vast majority of other coaches still believed that the key to winning was through a solid D and a sound running game. That may still be the case today, even in this offense-first era, just knowing that you probably need 35 or 40 points to win most games rather than 17 or 20!
'Pitt's Kicker Carson Long's awful day. '
I remember watching TV QB's with JVP and Fran etc, Joe said that the year prior Carson had made a kick, and came over and shook the kicking Tee in Joe's face. Joe figured that would come back to haunt him, which it did this case .
I played against Caron Long in HS football. He was at North Schuylkill and was a pretty good HS DE as well as kicker. I remember he made 3 FG's vs us, but missed an xpoint. When he missed the XP, his teammates where stunned!! They were all like WTF Carson? One of the last great straight on kickers.
TV QB's was awesome.
But there was another show that I remember that I used to make mom rush home from church so I could watch but it was a re-cap of Sat. game. I think it went for an hour. Remember back in those days we were only on TV maybe 1 nationally and once locally. Although I think TCS may have had us on a couple of times.
Thanks for finding that game. It’s funny to see how things change over time. The announcing was much more game oriented. No hundred shots of some players mom and dad in the stands or talking about other games going on at the same time. No pitching 1 team or another for a better bowl (or playoff) spot etc.
It’s great seeing the snow. It doesn’t seem to snow as much now on that final weekend. Commercials were about whatever product the company actually sold rather than other nonsense. Fans came out of the stands to surround the field while the game was still going on. There didn’t appear to be much security but they all stayed behind the end line and sidelines. It was just a totally different atmosphere for games back then.
I'll go even further and say that Green was one of the best players I've ever seen in college. He probably should have won the Heisman in 1980. He and Ricky Jackson were a formidable pair.
You are right those Pitt teams, until about 1983, were loaded. We just wrecked them and the program after the '81 game.
Whatever happened to Randy Sidler? I think he was a first team all American and first round draft choice. Kinda remember reading that he just didn’t want to play anymore
5th rd would have made it as long snapper for sure....
Randall Kevin Sidler (born February 4, 1956) is a former professional American football player. Sidler was selected by the New York Jets in the 5th round of the 1978 NFL Draft but never played an NFL game.[1] He left the Jets training camp and took a break from football. The Washington Redskins then traded for him, but he did not represent them either.[2]
He was named All-America in 1977[3] after amassing 65 tackles and four sacks during his career as a nose guard at Penn State.
Sidler is a graduate Danville High School in Danville, Pennsylvania, where his football jersey has been retired.[citation needed]
Went to all four games versus Pitt from 1974-1977.
To Sidler's credit, he told NFL teams ahead of the draft that he was not interested in playing pro ball. I guess a few teams felt he was too good to pass on, and they could sway him with money. Not to be. He reluctantly went to the Jets camp, but his heart was never in it.
He was a great athlete. He played many positions in HS, including QB. Iirc, he was one of the first PSU freshmen to play in a game when he played TE in the '74 game at Army. He was a TE his freshman season in '74, as was Mickey Shuler. Sidler was versatile, good at many positions, and was moved to LB and then DT in '75, iirc. He was at nose guard in '76 and '77. He played at about 225-235 pounds. Natural strength and athleticism.
Sid one-of-a-kind, in many ways. I knew him in college because he came over to the house quite a bit. Very friendly and likeable, unassuming, easy to talk with. After games, instead of going to a party, he would drive home to Danville to go hunting early Sunday mornings, then return in time for the team meetings, etc. Sunday afternoons.
Sidler is now retired, still in Danville. From a mutual friend I heard he had some health issues a few years ago, but last I heard he was doing well.
His family had season tickets directly in front of me for many years. In all that time, I think Randy came to one game, maybe two. One of the games was when my daughter was about 18 months old. My wife was carrying her through the aisle they were in, and when she got to Sid, he took her from my wife and handed her to me. His hands were huge, and one hand seemed to almost go about 3/4 around her. I said to him, "Well, one of my nightmares just came true. Randy Sidler had his hands all over my daughter". He got a kick out of that.
I was at that game and it was very hard to see us in those whit uniforms. We were sitting in the endzone and when they were at the other end it especially hard.
Joe’s bowl record (and mostly major bowls - not the rice crispy bowl) was superlative! Reason? He was an all-time great coach and even better person!
