Problem is and always has been talent, pure and simple.....

[OG Goat Holder]

We are just a 6-6, 7-5, 8-4 program until we elevate recruiting. I've said this ever since Leach was hired, as I was hopeful his name cache would help us get some players. And that's happening, slowly but surely.

Average talent teams like us generally play well and beat people at home, and get beat on the road. Look at Ole Miss, it's the general nature of it.

Question is.......what is the biggest issue standing between making the Air Raid at MSU contend for the SEC? To me, it's the lack of a game breaking WR. Followed by a true dynamic QB. We simply cannot stretch the field. And then on defense, we simply don't have the DLs/LBs we normally have. I hope this changes as Big Crumbly comes back against Auburn.

I know Alabama is the beast and all but our lack of QB and WR talent is never on display as bad as when we play them. I mean we looked like 12 year old boys compared to them.

Anyways, I think these things are coming, starting with Chris Parson. Not sure on WRs. But we also have to maintain what we've got elsewhere. And we need to get our NIL going with some defensive linemen. That is not a place where we should be having to 'wait for guys to grow up'. We are damned DLU. Get some men.

 

[SchrodingersDawg]

 

[The Cooterpoot]

No doubt recruiting hasn't been good enough. But we're not improving that with Leach.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Watch TCU. That's Leach's (Sonny Dykes was Leach's first WR coach at Tech)system tweaked with more QB run, tempo, and downfield passing (your truly dynamic QB idea so to speak.)

TCU is looking like they are going to the playoffs as it currently stands. Not playing the same defenses we have in the SEC, but just watching them last night and against Okie State, they are a damn sight more explosive than we are on offense. Coming into this week they were #3 in the country in YPG behind Tennessee and Ohio State and then they put up 500 more yards on KState last night.

I'd really love it if the master decided to learn from the student, but we all know that will never happen.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Watch TCU. That's Leach's (Sonny Dykes was Leach's first WR coach at Tech)system tweaked with more QB run, tempo, and downfield passing (your truly dynamic QB idea so to speak.)

TCU is looking like they are going to the playoffs as it currently stands. Not playing the same defenses we have in the SEC, but just watching them last night and against Okie State, they are a damn sight more explosive than we are on offense.

I'd really love it if the master decided to learn from the student, but we all know that will never happen.

Yep there's your key word right there, explosive. Of course, it's easier to find QBs and WRs in Texas so there's that, but again, that gets back to where we should be running an Air Raid and that conversation gets us nowhere because we are waist-deep in it now.

And yeah, by dynamic, I don't care how we do it, whether it's a QB with a better arm and/or more mobility or just faster receivers, but physically we are just so limited there.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Yep there's your key word right there, explosive. Of course, it's easier to find QBs and WRs in Texas so there's that, but again, that gets back to where we should be running an Air Raid and that conversation gets us nowhere because we are waist-deep in it now.

And yeah, by dynamic, I don't care how we do it, whether it's a QB with a better arm and/or more mobility or just faster receivers, but physically we are just so limited there.

Your on it Goat. I'm not even sure our current receivers don't have it honestly. We don't break slants into 50 yard scores because there are tons of bodies in the secondary within 15-20 yards of the line of scrimmage. Tulu, Harvey, Calvin, and Thomas all look explosive enough to break a big one if we stretch that secondary vertically so they have to defend 30-40 yards off the line of scrimmage.

I hate to be the Will has a weak arm guy... But I was at the Kentucky game and every pass Will threw incomplete just kind of petered out on the ground near the receiver. Every incompletion from Levis rocketed 30-40 yards down the field like a squib kick. Seeing it in person it was eye opening as to the difference in arm strength between the 2 of them. Fast forward to last night against the Alabama secondary and those tight window throws were constantly late and contested. (I saw the drops as well.)

I think a dynamic QB is more necessary than the explosive receivers at this point. You have to have someone that can get the ball to them downfield or it's a waste of their ability.

 

[ckDOG]

Talent and some changes on offense. Talent could help provide some vertical threat to the offense (of which currently we have none), but is it too much to ask to incorporate a little play action in the damn offense to help get the safeties to bite a couple times a game? If you don't have the speed to go vertical, help them succeed in other ways.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Talent and some changes on offense. Talent could help provide some vertical threat to the offense (of which currently we have none), but is it too much to ask to incorporate a little play action in the damn offense to help get the safeties to bite a couple times a game? If you don't have the speed to go vertical, help them succeed in other ways.

I've noticed Leach is very much a 'do what we do' kind of guy, and then sort of reacts to the defense. Not much 'attacking' going on, and the play action you're talking about would fall into that category. Seems like we could at least do that against the uber talented teams. Who knows.

We should find out a lot more vs. Auburn and Georgia. It's essentially the same setup as Kentucky and Alabama, except at home. For one, I hope the penalty numbers go down.

 

[Croomonshrooms]

Good post, but the real difference in this team being able to play with Alabama and Georgia is the offensive line. if the defense can not defeat the o line, the qb has all day to throw and you will get picked apart. Or you will gashed by the run if you defend with a light box. Eventually Leach will have his O lineman in here and we will have a more mobile qb, that will solve much of the problem.
We also need more explosive game changers at receiver. That little back from Katy Texas is a good example of a home run hitter.

it is coming together if we will be patient.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Good post, but the real difference in this team being able to play with Alabama and Georgia is the offensive line. if the defense can not defeat the o line, the qb has all day to throw and you will get picked apart. Or you will gashed by the run if you defend with a light box. Eventually Leach will have his O lineman in here and we will have a more mobile qb, that will solve much of the problem.
We also need more explosive game changers at receiver. That little back from Katy Texas is a good example of a home run hitter.

it is coming together if we will be patient.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Good post, but the real difference in this team being able to play with Alabama and Georgia is the offensive line. if the defense can not defeat the o line, the qb has all day to throw and you will get picked apart. Or you will gashed by the run if you defend with a light box. Eventually Leach will have his O lineman in here and we will have a more mobile qb, that will solve much of the problem.
We also need more explosive game changers at receiver. That little back from Katy Texas is a good example of a home run hitter.

it is coming together if we will be patient.

I think so too, it's happened everywhere he's been. And oh the horror, we get to endure 7-5 seasons until that peak year gets here! Either way, I'm on the train, may as well ride this thing out and figure out once and for all if we can be a passing team.

 

[Seinfeld]

We are just a 6-6, 7-5, 8-4 program until we elevate recruiting. I've said this ever since Leach was hired, as I was hopeful his name cache would help us get some players. And that's happening, slowly but surely.

Average talent teams like us generally play well and beat people at home, and get beat on the road. Look at Ole Miss, it's the general nature of it.

Question is.......what is the biggest issue standing between making the Air Raid at MSU contend for the SEC? To me, it's the lack of a game breaking WR. Followed by a true dynamic QB. We simply cannot stretch the field. And then on defense, we simply don't have the DLs/LBs we normally have. I hope this changes as Big Crumbly comes back against Auburn.

I know Alabama is the beast and all but our lack of QB and WR talent is never on display as bad as when we play them. I mean we looked like 12 year old boys compared to them.

Anyways, I think these things are coming, starting with Chris Parson. Not sure on WRs. But we also have to maintain what we've got elsewhere. And we need to get our NIL going with some defensive linemen. That is not a place where we should be having to 'wait for guys to grow up'. We are damned DLU. Get some men.

I actually don't disagree with any of this. I think where you and I tend to see things differently about this program is that you are a lot more forgiving towards Leach regarding the time he needs to get this right.

Make no mistake, I'm not on the fire Leach bandwagon nor am I ready to give up all hope. However, I do find it entirely frustrating that we're a month away from the road to Year 4, yet we're still talking about not having the right QB or WRs to run this air raid. I don't care right now about special teams, D line, and line backers. I just expect a system coach that's widely known as an offensive guru to be able to put something on the field in year 3 that doesn't completely crumble against a half decent pass rush. We had zero chance to score points last night against a defense that'd been gashed by multiple teams this year.

So now I guess we look ahead to Parson, but I mean... we've got a RFr sitting on the bench that's the highest rated QB we've ever signed, and he's clearly not ready to lead this offense, so what can we even honestly expect here? Parson to be ready by year 2? Year 3 in 2025?

I don't know what the answer is right now, but I fully agree with you about one thing. Our ceiling under the current circumstances is 8-4, and we're going to be more likely to finish with 6-7 wins in most seasons until something significant changes.

 

[patdog]

I think so too, it's happened everywhere he's been. And oh the horror, we get to endure 7-5 seasons until that peak year gets here! Either way, I'm on the train, may as well ride this thing out and figure out once and for all if we can be a passing team.

I hate to break it to you. This IS the peak year.

 

[theoriginalSALTYdog]

We are just a 6-6, 7-5, 8-4 program until we elevate recruiting. I've said this ever since Leach was hired, as I was hopeful his name cache would help us get some players. And that's happening, slowly but surely.

Average talent teams like us generally play well and beat people at home, and get beat on the road. Look at Ole Miss, it's the general nature of it.

Question is.......what is the biggest issue standing between making the Air Raid at MSU contend for the SEC? To me, it's the lack of a game breaking WR. Followed by a true dynamic QB. We simply cannot stretch the field. And then on defense, we simply don't have the DLs/LBs we normally have. I hope this changes as Big Crumbly comes back against Auburn.

I know Alabama is the beast and all but our lack of QB and WR talent is never on display as bad as when we play them. I mean we looked like 12 year old boys compared to them.

Anyways, I think these things are coming, starting with Chris Parson. Not sure on WRs. But we also have to maintain what we've got elsewhere. And we need to get our NIL going with some defensive linemen. That is not a place where we should be having to 'wait for guys to grow up'. We are damned DLU. Get some men.

You must've missed the memo that Leach can win big with 2 and 3 star players.

 

[8dog]

You must've missed the memo that Leach can win big with 2 and 3 star players.

I doubt talent is the reason we have 10 offensive points in our last 2 trips to Lexington total, stalled out against OM or can’t even stay competitive for a half against Bama. Is it the reason we ultimately lose? Maybe. But the bothersome thing is how we lose.

 

[chuckster.sixpack]

You must've missed the memo that Leach can win big with 2 and 3 star players.

Wasn’t that a big part of Cohen’s decision? Knowing that MSU could never match the talent of LSU or Bama, he was hopeful that the scheme could offset that to a certain degree.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I hate to break it to you. This IS the peak year.

There's literally no evidence of this. You are simply ignoring facts that are easy to find in the simplest of places, like wikipedia.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I doubt talent is the reason we have 10 offensive points in our last 2 trips to Lexington total, stalled out against OM or can’t even stay competitive for a half against Bama. Is it the reason we ultimately lose? Maybe. But the bothersome thing is how we lose.

In my own eyeball opinion, the plays are there to be made. Our QB and WRs don't possess enough athleticism, and our defensive front 6 or 7 isn't all that fast. That means coaching is fine (as there is evidence and history to support) and talent is lacking (which is the historical issue at MSU).

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Wasn’t that a big part of Cohen’s decision? Knowing that MSU could never match the talent of LSU or Bama, he was hopeful that the scheme could offset that to a certain degree.

Well....we HAVE beaten some better recruiters than us.....LSU, Texas A&M, Auburn.

 

[8dog]

In my own eyeball opinion, the plays are there to be made. Our QB and WRs don't possess enough athleticism, and our defensive front 6 or 7 isn't all that fast. That means coaching is fine (as there is evidence and history to support) and talent is lacking (which is the historical issue at MSU)

If the issue is Will then lets don’t trot him back out there next year. But it seems everyone thinks we are gonna go find a big arm that’s mobile and can see the whole field. Which isn’t likely to happen. I thought the system was supposed to be simple. Doesnt appear to be. Or maybe Rogers is that bad.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

If the issue is Will then lets don’t trot him back out there next year. But it seems everyone thinks we are gonna go find a big arm that’s mobile and can see the whole field. Which isn’t likely to happen. I thought the system was supposed to be simple. Doesnt appear to be. Or maybe Rogers is that bad.

I really hope we trot Chris Parson out there next year. I hope he's all he's cracked up to be.

Deep down I want to think that Leach keeps Rogers in the blowout games to pad his stats so he'll go pro. But I really don't know what to think.

 

[8dog]

I really hope we trot Chris Parson out there next year. I hope he's all he's cracked up to be.

Deep down I want to think that Leach keeps Rogers in the blowout games to pad his stats so he'll go pro. But I really don't know what to think.

No way Parson is ready next year. In any system. He is going to have to get someone from the portal or hope Robertson makes a huge leap.

But historically Leach likes old guys that have been in the system which is gonna be tough to do with the kids using the portal.

 

[Croomonshrooms]

You can’t throw a true freshman out there without letting him learn the offense until it’s second nature. It wouldn’t be fair to the player. parson will be great but he’s got to put the reps and study in. Locke is really talented.

we need to get the O line better and better.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

We are just a 6-6, 7-5, 8-4 program until we elevate recruiting. I've said this ever since Leach was hired, as I was hopeful his name cache would help us get some players. And that's happening, slowly but surely.

Average talent teams like us generally play well and beat people at home, and get beat on the road. Look at Ole Miss, it's the general nature of it.

Question is.......what is the biggest issue standing between making the Air Raid at MSU contend for the SEC? To me, it's the lack of a game breaking WR. Followed by a true dynamic QB. We simply cannot stretch the field. And then on defense, we simply don't have the DLs/LBs we normally have. I hope this changes as Big Crumbly comes back against Auburn.

I know Alabama is the beast and all but our lack of QB and WR talent is never on display as bad as when we play them. I mean we looked like 12 year old boys compared to them.

Anyways, I think these things are coming, starting with Chris Parson. Not sure on WRs. But we also have to maintain what we've got elsewhere. And we need to get our NIL going with some defensive linemen. That is not a place where we should be having to 'wait for guys to grow up'. We are damned DLU. Get some men.

I agree with you goat. Either have to the talent all around, a few game changer heisman level guys, or creatively scheme to overcome and execute. If not all three in our case. Parsons is the first possible game changer qb, I just hope leach unleashes that. A dynamic mobile qb with a canon could change things. But leaches history is not that. Maybe he is changing idk. But that's where this needs to go. Dink and dunk won't beat the better teams, have create plays with mobile qb and be able to take the top off and have receivers than can beat good dbs downfield, see Tennessee. Or you just have elite talent all over, see UGA and bama.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You can’t throw a true freshman out there without letting him learn the offense until it’s second nature. It wouldn’t be fair to the player. parson will be great but he’s got to put the reps and study in. Locke is really talented.

we need to get the O line better and better.

I know, but if we’re rebuilding anyway….

 

[Croomonshrooms]

I know, but if we’re rebuilding anyway….

Trust me next year is not a rebuilding year, that’s a false narrative. We won’t be losing many players next year other than 2 guys who will get drafted. most Will return with a Covid year. Study next years schedule.

 

[Anon1664516582]

Parson is already learning this offense… and the rb from Katy should be starting IMMEDIATELY. He is that good and faster than anyone we have had maybe ever…

we have to go get offensive and defensive linemen…. Btr linebackers and receivers who can catch the ball period. It’s also time we invest in recruiting. These young ladies from the West Coast as head of player personnel are a damn joke.

u gonna tell me some young girl can go win a recruiting battle with Bama, Georgia or UM for that matter? Please… what a damn joke. Just like our wussified AD..

 

[chuckster.sixpack]

Trust me next year is not a rebuilding year, that’s a false narrative. We won’t be losing many players next year other than 2 guys who will get drafted. most Will return with a Covid year. Study next years schedule.

Having a bunch of players return is not always a good thing. Players have ceilings.

 

[Clay Lyle]

I’m sorry, but Malik Heath’s success at Ole Miss makes me think that it’s not a talent issue. It’s either scheme, Will Roger’s arm strength, or both.

 

[Croomonshrooms]

Having a bunch of players return is not always a good thing. Players have ceilings.

Lol

yea who needs fifth year seniors on the d line o line and line backing corps ?

we Get everybod6 back with an easy schedule = 9-10 wins maybe more

 

[Ranchdawg]

We are just a 6-6, 7-5, 8-4 program until we elevate recruiting. I've said this ever since Leach was hired, as I was hopeful his name cache would help us get some players. And that's happening, slowly but surely.

Average talent teams like us generally play well and beat people at home, and get beat on the road. Look at Ole Miss, it's the general nature of it.

Question is.......what is the biggest issue standing between making the Air Raid at MSU contend for the SEC? To me, it's the lack of a game breaking WR. Followed by a true dynamic QB. We simply cannot stretch the field. And then on defense, we simply don't have the DLs/LBs we normally have. I hope this changes as Big Crumbly comes back against Auburn.

I know Alabama is the beast and all but our lack of QB and WR talent is never on display as bad as when we play them. I mean we looked like 12 year old boys compared to them.

Anyways, I think these things are coming, starting with Chris Parson. Not sure on WRs. But we also have to maintain what we've got elsewhere. And we need to get our NIL going with some defensive linemen. That is not a place where we should be having to 'wait for guys to grow up'. We are damned DLU. Get some men.

Spot on post. The boys on the field win and lose games. You can coach a WR all you want if he's got 4.5s speed and he will struggle against a 4.3 DB. The money changing hands has priced us out of the market. The only way to get back in is with donations.

 

[BingleCocktail]

the root of problem is no serious talent wants to come to a SMALL TOWN in MISS'IPPI to &TATE which has demonstrated little success of players improving and going to the lext level

&tarkville, 0xf0rd, hatti3sburg, sc00ba -- they are all "last chance u's"

 

[Croomonshrooms]

Plenty of serious talent at qb, rb and receiver want to compe play for Leach. Better players at skill position than we have been able to get in school history

 

[beachbumdawg]

Lol

yea who needs fifth year seniors on the d line o line and line backing corps ?

we Get everybod6 back with an easy schedule = 9-10 wins maybe more

bet?
With Will at qb and lack of defensive speed, this is a 6-7 win football team max

 

[BonzoGoesToCollege]

We are just a 6-6, 7-5, 8-4 program until we elevate recruiting. I've said this ever since Leach was hired, as I was hopeful his name cache would help us get some players. And that's happening, slowly but surely.

Average talent teams like us generally play well and beat people at home, and get beat on the road. Look at Ole Miss, it's the general nature of it.

Question is.......what is the biggest issue standing between making the Air Raid at MSU contend for the SEC? To me, it's the lack of a game breaking WR. Followed by a true dynamic QB. We simply cannot stretch the field. And then on defense, we simply don't have the DLs/LBs we normally have. I hope this changes as Big Crumbly comes back against Auburn.

I know Alabama is the beast and all but our lack of QB and WR talent is never on display as bad as when we play them. I mean we looked like 12 year old boys compared to them.

Anyways, I think these things are coming, starting with Chris Parson. Not sure on WRs. But we also have to maintain what we've got elsewhere. And we need to get our NIL going with some defensive linemen. That is not a place where we should be having to 'wait for guys to grow up'. We are damned DLU. Get some men.

I hope this changes as Big Crumbly comes back against Auburn.

Did Leach say Crumedy would be ready for Auburn? I've read on this board several times earlier that he'd be ready for previous games.

 

[Faustdog]

We are just a 6-6, 7-5, 8-4 program...

I think you could have stopped here. With a solid coach this is what we are with a rare outlier season of 9-10 wins.

Our history tells us this. And if we mess up a hire we are a 2-5 win program.

 

[chuckster.sixpack]

Lol

yea who needs fifth year seniors on the d line o line and line backing corps ?

we Get everybod6 back with an easy schedule = 9-10 wins maybe more

PM me with your confidence level on over 9 wins in 2023.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I think you could have stopped here. With a solid coach this is what we are with a rare outlier season of 9-10 wins.

Our history tells us this. And if we mess up a hire we are a 2-5 win program.

Still doesn't mean we shouldn't at least be thinking about some innovative ways to move beyond this.

We know we have to maximize our smaller fanbase, which we do. Stadium looks bigger than it is, we have cowbells, in general we support the program better than average for our fanbase size, I'd think.

We also know we have to be strategic with our money (whether this is facilities, NIL, etc.). We've done well here with facilities, so the other deal is with luring coaches/players. I've said before I like the idea of loading our defense, where we've historically been better and gotten the best players. Mississippi produces a lot of defensive talent. Keep them home. And I also think our branding is getting much better - can really get good if we adopt 'STATE'.

Lastly, we must innovate on offense. We have to be weird. Emory ran the triple option. Jackie ran the option and pounded the ball with a mobile QB, huge RBs and huge OL. Mullen ran a spread that, while crazy weird, was at least perfectly suited for our typical offensive players. Now we're trying the Air Raid, we will see if it works. I'd like to see Leach adapt it to require less 'perfect' passing so we could use more mobile QBs.

All these things must be done in sync. Before Jackie got here, a lot of times we are only doing 1 of the 3, if that, half the time. Hell we were selling home games on the reg and playing in Jackson all the time. If we'd ever get all 3 of these right, we might could rise up and get to that 9/10 win level back to back years once in a while.