Question for Irish and 047 from a club BB fan..
- Thread starter thekimmer
- Start date
They’re trolls, who for some reason are allowed to stay here and ruin the board. Fighting Irish might be worse than Coach34 and that’s saying something.
Like it or not, we DID miss on talent evaluation on too many players on the roster. You can't miss on that many and expect to compete in this conference. You just can't. We have several players (that currently or previously have started this year) that have zero business being on an SEC roster. It's really crazy.
Once again, show me where I have said to fire Lemonis……
This last week, there was a thread in here about the blue bloods of college baseball. Of course, the majority said we were a blue blood. A blue blood team reloads after winning the cws. We failed to capitalize last year and we failed to capitalize on on our 2012 season.
I have been cautiously optimistic about Lemonis from day 1. My caution was that he was a tier big 10 coach. Ron Polk 3.0 could have won with the 2019 team. Who knows with 2020 and the China Virus? Last year, I flipped after we won and said I was wrong for my criticism during the year.
Now he we are are in 2022, and we are sucking again. If we do not make the sec tournament this year, and that is very likely, changes have to be made in the offseason. Seeing how our pitching flat out sucks, the change needs to be there. And yes I know sims and stinnett are injured, but they sure as hell could not have stopped this **** show.
if 2023 is a repeat of 2022, goodbye Lemonis and please dear God, goodbye John Cohen!
we have failed to identify talent!
This last week, there was a thread in here about the blue bloods of college baseball. Of course, the majority said we were a blue blood. A blue blood team reloads after winning the cws. We failed to capitalize last year and we failed to capitalize on on our 2012 season.
I have been cautiously optimistic about Lemonis from day 1. My caution was that he was a tier big 10 coach. Ron Polk 3.0 could have won with the 2019 team. Who knows with 2020 and the China Virus? Last year, I flipped after we won and said I was wrong for my criticism during the year.
Now he we are are in 2022, and we are sucking again. If we do not make the sec tournament this year, and that is very likely, changes have to be made in the offseason. Seeing how our pitching flat out sucks, the change needs to be there. And yes I know sims and stinnett are injured, but they sure as hell could not have stopped this **** show.
if 2023 is a repeat of 2022, goodbye Lemonis and please dear God, goodbye John Cohen!
we have failed to identify talent!
I don’t care what you do with your club sport. But the $ would be better spent on a real sport like football if we ever want to compete with the rest of the SEC
Oh yeah right you haven’t made up your mind on Lemonis. You have only never ceased to refer to him with a perjorative nickname since last season so much that the word is banned and you have to get creative to use it. Then in this post you proceed to make your case for getting rid of him and the AD after next season.
Since winning the NC, we’ve lost the following:
1) SEC / national player of the year
2) another 4 year starter in CF who hit .300 / .900 OPS for virtually his entire career
3) Our Fri night guy who was a first round draft pick
4) The best returning pitcher in college baseball in 2022 (also a future 1st round draft pick) who was supposed to take that Friday night guy’s spot.
5) The closer who took that pitcher’s 2021 role, who was doing well before going down to injury.
6) Another projected weekend starting pitcher or potentially reliable bullpen guy at worst (KC Hunt)
7) Our top bullpen arm and eventual 3rd starter from 2021 (Harding)
8 - A reliable middle infielder who was the active career hits leader in college baseball last season.
This isn’t the team that “just won the title”. Not anywhere close to it. No college baseball program in the country can withstand that magnitude of talent loss due to MLB, graduation, and injuries and still be even a Top 25 program.
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Name the missed evaluations. This ought to be entertaining.
This team was always going to sink or swim by how far the following guys carried us:
Pitchers:
1) Landon Sims
2) Cade Smith
3) KC Hunt
4) Preston Johnson
5) Brandon Smith
6) Parker Stinnett
7) Stone Simmons
Position Players:
8) Kamren James
9) Lane Forsythe
10) Logan Tanner
11) Kellum Clark
12) Brad Cumbest
13) Luke Hancock
14) Tanner Leggett
15) Brayland Skinner
That’s the full nucleus of players returning this season who had any sort of role whatsoever at the end of the year on the 2021 team.
Number of Lemonis recruits on that list? Only 5 out of 15 - Preston Johnson, Parker Stinnett, Stone Simmons, Brayland Skinner, and Tanner Leggett. All mid-tier JUCO guys and transfers that we had room for after losing a few guys to the draft. One was a solid closer who went down early in the year to injury, two expected solid bullpen arms who have been thrust into weekend starter roles with mixed results, and a couple late offer JUCO defensive role players who have both been mostly what you’d expect out of players with their recruiting profiles. Literally every other player on the list was a Cannizarro or Cohen recruit, with even one Joe Moorhead guy in Cumbest thrown in there. The bottom line is that if we’ve had missed evaluations (which I don’t even agree has been the case), it hasn’t been the current staff that has missed on folks.
For his part, Lemonis guys added for 2022 include our current best hitter in Hines as well as Yeager who has been one of our Top 5 bats. Also Kohn and Auger, who have been our only two respectable bullpen arms, were also Lemonis guys.
So now, it’s your turn (or anyone’s turn) to say who we missed on.
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Since it's my turn, I'll give it a shot.
How many on the 2022 roster signed their scholarship since June 25, 2018? Because that's the day Lemonis became the Mississippi Sate Head Baseball Coach. I know you're lazy, so I'll answer that for you.
Landon Sims (not a talent miss)
KC Hunt
Jess Davis. UAB Transfer
RJ Yeager. Mercer transfer
Aaron Downs
Kamren James
Drew McGowan
Pico Kohn
Reevy Higgins III
Kellum Clark
Davis Meche
Matt Corder. JUCO Transfer
Cade Smith
Cole Cheatham
Stone Simmons. Transfer
Jack Walker
Logan Tanner
Slate Alford
Gray Bane
Jackson Fristoe
Tayler Montiel
Andrew Walling. JUCO Transfer
Von Seibert. JUCO transfer
Tanner Leggett. JUCO transfer
Parker Stinnett. JUCO transfer
Brad Cumbest
Preston Johnson. JUCO transfer
Brayland Skinner. JUCO transfer
Bryce Chance
Mickey Tepper
Bradley Wilson
Layne Forsythe
Hunter Hines
Cam Tullar. JUCO Transfer
Drew Talley JUCO transfer
Brooks Auger. JUCO transfer
That's everyone on the roster, except Brandon Smith and Luke Hancock.
Every one of these players except Smith and Hancock signed their scholarship and began playing since June 25, 2018. The date Lemonis became head coach at Mississippi State. The sad truth is, they missed on a crap ton of these JUCO and graduate transfers. And they missed on too many of the HS signees. Many of which never should have been offered by MSU, and were fallbacks because they went all in on too many that they should have known were never going to come to school. You can argue how Vanderbilt, LSU, and Arkansas are getting those guys to pass up the draft and sign. But we just aren't able to do that, for whatever reason.
We can put to bed the "this is Cannizzaro's and Cohen's team" narrative. This is Lemonis' team. You own it. Good or bad. Don't give me the "these players were offered in 2nd grade by Cohen" bs.
Probably wasting my breath here, but you simply don’t seem to know very much about college baseball recruiting. 10 of the 15 guys on the list weren’t just offered, but were COMMITTED to Cohen, Cannizarro, or Moorhead. Spots were locked in. And yeah, my “lazy ***” confirmed the commitment dates of every single one of those players. You probably think that Fletcher Cox and Tyler Russell were Dan Mullen recruits too, I bet.
The college baseball recruiting cycle is long as hell, for everybody. The very best players commit by their sophomore or junior year of high school at the latest, and almost never waiver or switch like they do in football. Situations like Tanner Allen and Will Bednar flipping commitments are pretty hard to expect regularly as they require very special circumstances. In both those cases, the lead recruiter at Indiana for Bednar and LSU for Allen landed a much more high profile gig after developing the relationship, and was able to leverage it to get the flip. But those are one time deals. So yeah, when a new coach takes over, he’s basically pot committed for several years to the HS guys who have already locked in their spots with the previous staff(s), with very few exceptions. The only alternative is pulling their offer and replacing them with a much more marginal player who didn’t get recruited very much until Jr or Sr year….not a great option.
The only guys that a new coach can add immediately to the roster are JUCO’s and transfers….guys who again by very definition are going to be projects or role players in just about every case since they weren’t good enough to get Power 5 offers or get drafted high out of high school, or they were there rehabbing an injury or something. Yeah, every now and again you find a Nate Lowe or a Chris Curry, but its pretty 17ing rare. That’s why you see those players often being your end of the bench bullpen arms and defensive specialists. These guys you really can’t even classify as misses because they are all gambles. We’ve gotten good results from Preston Johnson and Auger, occasionally good stuff from Stinnett, and got really good stuff from Harding last year. Guys like Tullar and others….not so much.
Back to high school guys that Lemonis has actually signed who have played enough to make a judgment on their ability to see if we missed, well….there have only been three:
1) Will Bednar - I’d say he turned out OK
2) Hunter Hines - 1.078 OPS as a true freshmen in the SEC. Best bat on the team halfway through the season. Yeah, I’ll take that.
3) Pico Kohn - 3.5 ERA with teams hitting .227 against him in 18 innings as a true freshmen out of the pen. Pretty solid.
So, again, who did this staff miss on? And, more importantly, who would be taking the spot of one of our more experienced starting 9 position players / DH or taking a rotation spot even if we didn’t miss on them?
The college baseball recruiting cycle is long as hell, for everybody. The very best players commit by their sophomore or junior year of high school at the latest, and almost never waiver or switch like they do in football. Situations like Tanner Allen and Will Bednar flipping commitments are pretty hard to expect regularly as they require very special circumstances. In both those cases, the lead recruiter at Indiana for Bednar and LSU for Allen landed a much more high profile gig after developing the relationship, and was able to leverage it to get the flip. But those are one time deals. So yeah, when a new coach takes over, he’s basically pot committed for several years to the HS guys who have already locked in their spots with the previous staff(s), with very few exceptions. The only alternative is pulling their offer and replacing them with a much more marginal player who didn’t get recruited very much until Jr or Sr year….not a great option.
The only guys that a new coach can add immediately to the roster are JUCO’s and transfers….guys who again by very definition are going to be projects or role players in just about every case since they weren’t good enough to get Power 5 offers or get drafted high out of high school, or they were there rehabbing an injury or something. Yeah, every now and again you find a Nate Lowe or a Chris Curry, but its pretty 17ing rare. That’s why you see those players often being your end of the bench bullpen arms and defensive specialists. These guys you really can’t even classify as misses because they are all gambles. We’ve gotten good results from Preston Johnson and Auger, occasionally good stuff from Stinnett, and got really good stuff from Harding last year. Guys like Tullar and others….not so much.
Back to high school guys that Lemonis has actually signed who have played enough to make a judgment on their ability to see if we missed, well….there have only been three:
1) Will Bednar - I’d say he turned out OK
2) Hunter Hines - 1.078 OPS as a true freshmen in the SEC. Best bat on the team halfway through the season. Yeah, I’ll take that.
3) Pico Kohn - 3.5 ERA with teams hitting .227 against him in 18 innings as a true freshmen out of the pen. Pretty solid.
So, again, who did this staff miss on? And, more importantly, who would be taking the spot of one of our more experienced starting 9 position players / DH or taking a rotation spot even if we didn’t miss on them?
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I don't know what you're trying to say here, but if you're saying we DIDN'T miss on any talent evaluations, then you just said our coaching sucks ***, and the talent is fine. It's painfully (pardon the pun) obvious what talent was mis-evaluated. No need to be a dick to kids and name names. Not sure what your goal was with that post.
I’m voting they are the same person. No two humans on one message board can be that miserable. Statistics…
You can only come up with 3 players in four years that are excelling? That's not going to compete in the SEC. Your stance seems to be that we didn't miss on any talent evaluation of all of those JUCO guys sitting their asses on the bench twiddling their thumbs. And we didn't miss on any of the JUCO, transfer, and HS guys that are playing, but massively underperforming. By your premise, we have a much bigger problem than talent mis-evaluation. We have a poor coaching problem across the board. And just so you know, no new coach is bound to the commitments of a prior coach. You gonna keep up the "this is Cohen and Cannizzaro's team" mantra another five years?
No, I sure won't. The stats and record speaks for itself. You're just being a dick, because you have no valid argument
Well, I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you. The three guys named obviously aren’t the only guys excelling. They are simply the beginning of Lemonis’ HS recruiting crop…..who, outside of Bednar, just 17ing got here. And all have been excellent.
And yes, as I said, coaches either have to keep prior staff’s commitments, or trade them for worse players. Point blank. Educate yourself on college baseball recruiting before you start spouting BS on this topic.
Also, see you still haven’t even named a single player that this staff or even the previous staff missed on. You’re just speaking in vague generalities with no real point. I’ll see my way out of this discussion now. Peace.
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