Random Thoughts Post OSU, No Franklin

[BiochemPSU]

The Drew Allar era is coming to an end. If he makes it in the NFL, awesome for him. But it isn't going to happen here, not under these circumstances. He either has to go the Levis route for next year and portal or just make the jump to the League now and take his chances there.

If I had a time machine, I would stop 2018 5 star WR Justin Shorter from coming here. Our WR recruiting never fully recovered from whatever happened with him not working out here. Despite NFL success for a number of players at the position, it hasn't translated back to the program.

The Fleming revenge game netted us 1 catch for 4 yards. Warren has as many receptions (47) as the next three WRs combined (Wallace (22), Clifford (14), and Evans (11)).

Tom Allen (who I still think was an odd hire), does enough to win games. Diaz's defenses were the same. You held OSU to 20 points. $20 million dollar team, 20 points. The defense even chipped in 7 points for good measure. Still not enough. Diaz ran into the same problems. It's the offense, always has been unless Saquon was running around.

For as much as we think our two RBs are great and our o-line has evolved into a good run blocking team: longest rush for Singleton, 41 yards; Allen, 26 yards. Add all of their rushing yardage up, and we still haven't crossed the 1,000 yard mark yet (992 yards). Are they good? Yeah. Great? No. Starting to wonder if the reason one of them never emerged as "the guy" is because neither of them really is.

Yes, that was a $20+ million dollar roster built with NIL, the portal, and recruiting across the country. Yes, Chip Kelly is the OC and they have other coaches who could probably be head coaches somewhere else. And yes, they have out recruited us for the past decade. But 111,000 people showed up and hoped. This school believes and wants to win. It can be done here.

 

[Blair10]

I agree with most of your post with the exception of the RB assessment. In my opinion, the run game success has been limited due to the ineffectiveness of the WRs. The good opponents always deploy the same defensive strategy against Penn State. They play mostly man-coverage, physically lock down the WRs, and stack the box to stuff the run game.

The WR talent is still a huge deficit for the Penn State offense. A vertical down field threat is non existent. Too many drops and too many pedestrian WRs starting for PSU. Think about this, Penn State’s designated top WR Wallace has not had a TD catch since August 31 against a weak West Virginia team. Omari Evans has been a failed experiment at WR.

The effort and dedication are there. It’s just that the WR talent level is very sub par for a B1G program like Penn State.

 

[Keyser Soze 16802]

Meanwhile, KLS is averaging 19.3 yards per catch for a terrible team

Losing him was a setback

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4430870/keandre-lambert-smith

 

[Nitt1300]

I see tOSU has a $20 mil annual payroll and is reputedly #1 in NIL. Where does the claim that PSU has an equal payroll come from? Asking for myself.

 

[psuro]

it sucked but if there was a game PSU can afford to lose this year it's this one. The key is to get the squad ready for the rest of the season and not get another loss. it's always been the second loss that has hurt PSU.


(I will now cower under the blanket to avoid the shrapnel.)

 

[dcf4psu]

The Drew Allar era is coming to an end. If he makes it in the NFL, awesome for him. But it isn't going to happen here, not under these circumstances. He either has to go the Levis route for next year and portal or just make the jump to the League now and take his chances there.

If I had a time machine, I would stop 2018 5 star WR Justin Shorter from coming here. Our WR recruiting never fully recovered from whatever happened with him not working out here. Despite NFL success for a number of players at the position, it hasn't translated back to the program.

The Fleming revenge game netted us 1 catch for 4 yards. Warren has as many receptions (47) as the next three WRs combined (Wallace (22), Clifford (14), and Evans (11)).

Tom Allen (who I still think was an odd hire), does enough to win games. Diaz's defenses were the same. You held OSU to 20 points. $20 million dollar team, 20 points. The defense even chipped in 7 points for good measure. Still not enough. Diaz ran into the same problems. It's the offense, always has been unless Saquon was running around.

For as much as we think our two RBs are great and our o-line has evolved into a good run blocking team: longest rush for Singleton, 41 yards; Allen, 26 yards. Add all of their rushing yardage up, and we still haven't crossed the 1,000 yard mark yet (992 yards). Are they good? Yeah. Great? No. Starting to wonder if the reason one of them never emerged as "the guy" is because neither of them really is.

Yes, that was a $20+ million dollar roster built with NIL, the portal, and recruiting across the country. Yes, Chip Kelly is the OC and they have other coaches who could probably be head coaches somewhere else. And yes, they have out recruited us for the past decade. But 111,000 people showed up and hoped. This school believes and wants to win. It can be done here.

Remember they still found ways to lose with Saquon also.

 

[Midnighter]

I see tOSU has a $20 mil annual payroll and is reputedly #1 in NIL. Where does the claim that PSU has an equal payroll come from? Asking for myself.

I don’t think anyone is saying that. But, listening to the BWI post game podcast, they admit PSU and OSU have had comparable on field talent the past two years. And we’re doing it with much less money. We’ve been good enough to win a lot of these - just keep coming up short.

 

[NittanyBuff]

Remember they still found ways to lose with Saquon also.

Had this conversation yesterday with a buddy of mine and love Franklin, like him hate, whatever, one common denominator in the 1-10 is Franklin, stud players, coaches etc.. have come and gone and JF is the one constant that remains. Season is still out there, can't let OSU beat us again next week or somewhere down the line.

 

[Nitt1300]

I don’t think anyone is saying that. But, listening to the BWI post game podcast, they admit PSU and OSU have had comparable on field talent the past two years. And we’re doing it with much less money. We’ve been good enough to win a lot of these - just keep coming up short.

But we don't have comparable talent. Look at WR, look at DBs. Ignore the difference in resources if it suits your argument, but payroll matters today. And if you insist on "elite" results, you have to pony up. I am not interested in buying wins, so I'm not bitching about 10-11 win seasons, your mileage may vary.

 

[psuno1]

I see tOSU has a $20 mil annual payroll and is reputedly #1 in NIL. Where does the claim that PSU has an equal payroll come from? Asking for myself.

OSU is not all that with there 20 million dollar pay roll, they will lose to Oregon again in the Big10 championship game if they get there, IU will give them all they want in two weeks.

 

[Nitt1300]

OSU is not all that with there 20 million dollar pay roll, they will lose to Oregon again in the Big10 championship game if they get there, IU will give them all they want in two weeks.

I agree- Oregon wins, IU loses in a gallant effort. Payrolls.

 

[Nits74]

Speaking of IU, wouldn't mind getting their head coach. That team is extremely well coached. Way better than our own.

 

[Bkmtnittany1]

I see tOSU has a $20 mil annual payroll and is reputedly #1 in NIL. Where does the claim that PSU has an equal payroll come from? Asking for myself.

PSU does not have near $20 million payroll for football. My source is a seriously wealthy alum, donor and private box season ticket holder for over 45 years

 

[stater02]

Does anyone else think $20m is peanuts? Especially given the revenue upside for a top 3 program that plays like one. We will look back on this in a few years when we are well into the multiples of $100s of millions in player payrolls and think, “why didn’t we just pony up $25m to win a natty in 2024, it was relatively cheap!?”

A few milli could have gotten us a WR core this year and made this team complete. We are spending $750m on a stadium - couple million for players is nothing. We supposedly have the most CEOs of any school, the largest alumni group….why can we not compete with OSU in terms of payroll? Honest questions here.

 

[Nitt1300]

Does anyone else think $20m is peanuts? Especially given the revenue upside for a top 3 program that plays like one. We will look back on this in a few years when we are well into the multiples of $100s of millions in player payrolls and think, “why didn’t we just pony up $25m to win a natty in 2024, it was relatively cheap!?”

A few milli could have gotten us a WR core this year and made this team complete. We are spending $750m on a stadium - couple million for players is nothing. We supposedly have the most CEOs of any school, the largest alumni group….why can we not compete with OSU in terms of payroll? Honest questions here.

It's easy to spend someone else's money.

 

[pendal1]

Does anyone else think $20m is peanuts? Especially given the revenue upside for a top 3 program that plays like one. We will look back on this in a few years when we are well into the multiples of $100s of millions in player payrolls and think, “why didn’t we just pony up $25m to win a natty in 2024, it was relatively cheap!?”

A few milli could have gotten us a WR core this year and made this team complete. We are spending $750m on a stadium - couple million for players is nothing. We supposedly have the most CEOs of any school, the largest alumni group….why can we not compete with OSU in terms of payroll? Honest questions here.

Money wouldn't be a problem. Never was but then PSU decided to throw Paterno under the bus and allow the media and Freeh to label the fan base as cultists. We had as powerful a fanbase and alumni as anyone and we were as united as any fanbase. That was ripped apart by cowards so money is now harder to come by.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Does anyone else think $20m is peanuts? Especially given the revenue upside for a top 3 program that plays like one. We will look back on this in a few years when we are well into the multiples of $100s of millions in player payrolls and think, “why didn’t we just pony up $25m to win a natty in 2024, it was relatively cheap!?”

A few milli could have gotten us a WR core this year and made this team complete. We are spending $750m on a stadium - couple million for players is nothing. We supposedly have the most CEOs of any school, the largest alumni group….why can we not compete with OSU in terms of payroll? Honest questions here.

Some of it is likely the culture at PSU. Our fans have always had a bit of an “everyone else is shady and paying players, but we’re the ones that do things the right way” vibe (this vibe exists to an extent everywhere, but is very strong here…”success with honor”). We don’t have big donors that have a “win at all costs” mentality and want to pay 18-23 year olds to get their school more wins on the field.

Really, why would a CEO give a bunch of $ to NIL? I certainly wouldn’t.

 

[stater02]

It's easy to spend someone else's money.

Of course it is, but that’s not the point of my post. But I knew this was going to be the response from most here.

Let me ask it a different way for the frugal folks: Do you not feel that there is at least an equivalent ROI (if not multiples) for an investment like this in terms of merch sales, interest in the program, and every other revenue stream that benefits from a successful program? I do. Especially where we are at now in terms of those costs. It will only get more difficult over time.

 

[84lion]

Well, I think players at the college level need to be “developed,” and I think they tend to assume the personality of their leaders, e.g. – coaching staff. In that regard, Allar has been very, very good against very good competition. The drive he led against USC was pretty spectacular. Against Ohio State, not so much. Of course, a lot of that may be blamed on the Wisconsin game and injury, but it should be noted that Allar’s and Pribula’s stats for the Wisconsin game are very similar. Arguably, the team scored more points under Pribula’s leadership than Allar’s. I hope Allar can do well in the pros. I’m not too worried about the QB situation. Pribula is good. With a guy named Jack Lambert waiting in the wings, how can we miss?

You mentioned Allen and Diaz. Frankly, I can’t really complain about the D this year. Both USC and Bowling Green scored more points than the “world famous” Buckeyes, so there’s that. The D has done enough IMO. The problem has been the offense, which has, again, gotten the job done against teams like WVU, Kent State, USC, and Wisconsin. I was mildly concerned yesterday when the O’s first drive ended in a mere field goal, but the pick-six INT on OSU’s first drive mellowed me out. As we all know, it was downhill from there. The D did a good job, though.

Now that it’s Sunday, there’s no question that if Penn State wins out, they still have a great chance of getting into the playoff, and might make some noise if they get the right matchups. I can’t see Penn State going further than the final four, but who knows? That kind of performance might be enough to erase the sting of another loss to OSU.

I’m going to go there with Franklin, though – he’s the coach. He’s the one that came in setting lofty goals and wanting Penn State to be “elite.” I think this is now “put up or shut up” time. Get it done now or he will never get it done. I watched some of the Georgia game yesterday and some of the Oregon game. IMO the championship is Oregon’s to lose, but there’s a lot of football left. Other than Oregon, the teams are beatable. Maybe Penn State missing the CCG isn’t a bad thing, although it means needing an at-large bid and closing out the season with no more losses. Indiana remains the wild card. Can they beat OSU and go into the CCG with Oregon undefeated? Or, do they lose to OSU and then it’s an Oregon-OSU rematch in the CCG, with both Indiana and Penn State with one loss. Can the B1G get 4 teams in, or if only 3, can there be any doubt that PSU gets passed over for Indiana?

 

[Bkmtnittany1]

Does anyone else think $20m is peanuts? Especially given the revenue upside for a top 3 program that plays like one. We will look back on this in a few years when we are well into the multiples of $100s of millions in player payrolls and think, “why didn’t we just pony up $25m to win a natty in 2024, it was relatively cheap!?”

A few milli could have gotten us a WR core this year and made this team complete. We are spending $750m on a stadium - couple million for players is nothing. We supposedly have the most CEOs of any school, the largest alumni group….why can we not compete with OSU in terms of payroll? Honest questions here.

See my post above… that alum I have gotten to know tells me that HUGE amounts of $$$ is out there but won’t be given because the BOT won’t honor JVP. Large amounts of coin not coming in from the largest alumni group in the country

 

[Erial_Lion]

Of course it is, but that’s not the point of my post. But I knew this was going to be the response from most here.

Let me ask it a different way for the frugal folks: Do you not feel that there is at least an equivalent ROI (if not multiples) for an investment like this in terms of merch sales, interest in the program, and every other revenue stream that benefits from a successful program? I do. Especially where we are at now in terms of those costs. It will only get more difficult over time.

An ROI for who? That’s the issue. Those that are actually sending $ to fund NIL are getting what return on their investment actually?

 

[stater02]

Money wouldn't be a problem. Never was but then PSU decided to throw Paterno under the bus and allow the media and Freeh to label the fan base as cultists. We had as powerful a fanbase and alumni as anyone and we were as united as any fanbase. That was ripped apart by cowards so money is now harder to come by.

Some of it is likely the culture at PSU. Our fans have always had a bit of an “everyone else is shady and paying players, but we’re the ones that do things the right way” vibe (this vibe exists to an extent everywhere, but is very strong here…”success with honor”). We don’t have big donors that have a “win at all costs” mentality and want to pay 18-23 year olds to get their school more wins on the field.

Really, why would a CEO give a bunch of $ to NIL? I certainly wouldn’t.

Thoughtful replies - thank you. I was in this camp and gave up my season tickets and stopped donating to the University. Over time, my stance has softened. I now find myself in the middle, seeing both sides of the argument.

You are definitely right about a divided fan base. I’m not sure any program is as divided as we are. I read these boards often and the polarization of opinion is extreme. It’s also disheartening to read the venom spewed here between PSU fans - but hey, it’s the internet. But we sure do seem to hate our own.

 

[84lion]

Really, why would a CEO give a bunch of $ to NIL? I certainly wouldn’t.

I may be wrong, but I believe the "boosters" in the SEC (whether CEOs or not) have been donating money to schools for years. Other schools too.

 

[Nitt1300]

Of course it is, but that’s not the point of my post. But I knew this was going to be the response from most here.

Let me ask it a different way for the frugal folks: Do you not feel that there is at least an equivalent ROI (if not multiples) for an investment like this in terms of merch sales, interest in the program, and every other revenue stream that benefits from a successful program? I do. Especially where we are at now in terms of those costs. It will only get more difficult over time.

Why would I care about added revenue that I'm not getting? As long as the current BOT is in charge, anyway. The NFL is better at football,

 

[lemonears]

I don’t think anyone is saying that. But, listening to the BWI post game podcast, they admit PSU and OSU have had comparable on field talent the past two years. And we’re doing it with much less money. We’ve been good enough to win a lot of these - just keep coming up short.

If you want to understand why we lost yesterday, it really isn't complicated. Simply compare recruits for Penn State vs. Ohio State from 2022 to 2025. We have about half 4* and half 3* recruits each year. Essentially no 5* recruits. Ohio State averages about five 5* recruits each year with all the rest being 4* recruits. Ohio State takes essentially no 3* recruits. That is why we lose every year to Ohio State. They have better players. Simple as that.

 

[NewEra 2014]

If you want to understand why we lost yesterday, it really isn't complicated. Simply compare recruits for Penn State vs. Ohio State from 2022 to 2025. We have about half 4* and half 3* recruits each year. Essentially no 5* recruits. Ohio State averages about five 5* recruits each year with all the rest being 4* recruits. Ohio State takes essentially no 3* recruits. That is why we lose every year to Ohio State. They have better players. Simple as that.

True in general, but not true about yesterday. Lesser talented teams beat more talented teams due to better effort, better coaching, better game planning, and by making fewer mistakes every weekend in college football.

Penn State had opportunities to win that game yesterday, even though OSU had more talent.

 

[CDLionFL]

Meanwhile, KLS is averaging 19.3 yards per catch for a terrible team

Losing him was a setback

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4430870/keandre-lambert-smith

Not sad he's gone and definitely not sad that his team is 3-6. Who's to say that if he had stayed here that he would have been able to get himself open? He certainly wasn't doing that last year. Then when things got tough at the end of the season, he and Cephas pouted through the last few games. PSU brings in Fleming and throws NIL $$ at him and KLS decides he's not the #1 guy anymore and he punts on it. Well, he was the #1 guy last year and we saw the leadership and improvement he showed on the field so there's no guarantee that his presence here would improve anything and who knows what SEC defenses have been doing on defense against Auburn.

 

[4theglory54]

Quick morning thoughts (without reading this entire thread....)

1-OSU simply more physical along both the O and D lines of scrimmage.
2-OSU secondary superior to our wideouts.
3-Unfortunately our very creative OC became the least creative in the biggest moment of the game.

With that being said, it was still a great atmosphere and an enjoyable college football game. And now its time to let it go and get back outside to enjoy this fantastic weather.

 

[Midnighter]

If you want to understand why we lost yesterday, it really isn't complicated. Simply compare recruits for Penn State vs. Ohio State from 2022 to 2025. We have about half 4* and half 3* recruits each year. Essentially no 5* recruits. Ohio State averages about five 5* recruits each year with all the rest being 4* recruits. Ohio State takes essentially no 3* recruits. That is why we lose every year to Ohio State. They have better players. Simple as that.

Disagree.

 

[pendal1]

If you want to understand why we lost yesterday, it really isn't complicated. Simply compare recruits for Penn State vs. Ohio State from 2022 to 2025. We have about half 4* and half 3* recruits each year. Essentially no 5* recruits. Ohio State averages about five 5* recruits each year with all the rest being 4* recruits. Ohio State takes essentially no 3* recruits. That is why we lose every year to Ohio State. They have better players. Simple as that.

So then James never has to win any games where the other team has potentially more talent. Then why should Penn State fans show up for games like yesterday and invest their time and money. We can just check the star ratings and if the other team averages 4.2 stars and we average 3.8 stars then F*ck it.

 

[WestSideLion]

Well, I think players at the college level need to be “developed,” and I think they tend to assume the personality of their leaders, e.g. – coaching staff. In that regard, Allar has been very, very good against very good competition. The drive he led against USC was pretty spectacular. Against Ohio State, not so much. Of course, a lot of that may be blamed on the Wisconsin game and injury, but it should be noted that Allar’s and Pribula’s stats for the Wisconsin game are very similar. Arguably, the team scored more points under Pribula’s leadership than Allar’s. I hope Allar can do well in the pros. I’m not too worried about the QB situation. Pribula is good. With a guy named Jack Lambert waiting in the wings, how can we miss?

You mentioned Allen and Diaz. Frankly, I can’t really complain about the D this year. Both USC and Bowling Green scored more points than the “world famous” Buckeyes, so there’s that. The D has done enough IMO. The problem has been the offense, which has, again, gotten the job done against teams like WVU, Kent State, USC, and Wisconsin. I was mildly concerned yesterday when the O’s first drive ended in a mere field goal, but the pick-six INT on OSU’s first drive mellowed me out. As we all know, it was downhill from there. The D did a good job, though.

Now that it’s Sunday, there’s no question that if Penn State wins out, they still have a great chance of getting into the playoff, and might make some noise if they get the right matchups. I can’t see Penn State going further than the final four, but who knows? That kind of performance might be enough to erase the sting of another loss to OSU.

I’m going to go there with Franklin, though – he’s the coach. He’s the one that came in setting lofty goals and wanting Penn State to be “elite.” I think this is now “put up or shut up” time. Get it done now or he will never get it done. I watched some of the Georgia game yesterday and some of the Oregon game. IMO the championship is Oregon’s to lose, but there’s a lot of football left. Other than Oregon, the teams are beatable. Maybe Penn State missing the CCG isn’t a bad thing, although it means needing an at-large bid and closing out the season with no more losses. Indiana remains the wild card. Can they beat OSU and go into the CCG with Oregon undefeated? Or, do they lose to OSU and then it’s an Oregon-OSU rematch in the CCG, with both Indiana and Penn State with one loss. Can the B1G get 4 teams in, or if only 3, can there be any doubt that PSU gets passed over for Indiana?

Even offenses that are merely above average (with competent coaching) score more than 6 points with all the chances PSU had yesterday.

There have been so many OCs come through the years. Still no real unlock save for two years with Saquon Barkley as the centerpiece.

Observant fans will recall that Franklin is a former OC and ask whether his fingerprints might be all over this offense and its failures? He is the common thread through it all.

 

[Psumatt85]

it sucked but if there was a game PSU can afford to lose this year it's this one. The key is to get the squad ready for the rest of the season and not get another loss. it's always been the second loss that has hurt PSU.


(I will now cower under the blanket to avoid the shrapnel.)

Funny but I agree with you Ro. Things I saw:

OSU db held too much, but our receivers are not of the type that can get open. This didn’t allow us to run, and really cannot continue against good teams

PSU did move the ball better than last year, and should have tied it at 4 minutes or so.

The first half d couldn’t get off the field. The unsportsmanlike foul was unacceptable in that type of game

Second half was 6-3. I’m more optimistic than I was before the game, as long as we end the scenario of OSU beating us twice. Need a dominant game agsinst washington

( joining you to cower)

 

[blion72]

An ROI for who? That’s the issue. Those that are actually sending $ to fund NIL are getting what return on their investment actually?

if it is NIL$$$ the giver is getting something in return. the CEO of Wendys was getting a benefit from Caleb supporting the ads for their products.

if it is pay for play where donors are funding some organization to run a player payroll, then there is no "ROI" for these donors. The are donors giving their $$$ for a cause they support = chasing wins and championships for the school. some of these $$$ might have gone to the school before.

 

[Psumatt85]

Does anyone else think $20m is peanuts? Especially given the revenue upside for a top 3 program that plays like one. We will look back on this in a few years when we are well into the multiples of $100s of millions in player payrolls and think, “why didn’t we just pony up $25m to win a natty in 2024, it was relatively cheap!?”

A few milli could have gotten us a WR core this year and made this team complete. We are spending $750m on a stadium - couple million for players is nothing. We supposedly have the most CEOs of any school, the largest alumni group….why can we not compete with OSU in terms of payroll? Honest questions here.

Roi may be there in the short term. No one knows how this plays out as there is no college football anymore. Just minor league teams supported by colleges. Give it 10 years see where it is

 

[Psumatt85]

Roi may be there in the short term. No one knows how this plays out as there is no college football anymore. Just minor league teams supported by colleges. Give it 10 years see where it is

Does putting a top 10 team on peacock grow or shrink interest?

 

[Psumatt85]

Roi may be there in the short term. No one knows how this plays out as there is no college football anymore. Just minor league teams supported by colleges. Give it 10 years see where it is

Does putting a top 10 team on peacock grow or shrink interest

 

[bdgan]

Meanwhile, KLS is averaging 19.3 yards per catch for a terrible team

Losing him was a setback

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4430870/keandre-lambert-smith

Unless he was a cancer in the locker room

 

[psu31trap]

I don’t think anyone is saying that. But, listening to the BWI post game podcast, they admit PSU and OSU have had comparable on field talent the past two years. And we’re doing it with much less money. We’ve been good enough to win a lot of these - just keep coming up short.

I’m not so sure about the comparable talent. Yes it’s close but I think the Buckeyes still have better linemen on both sides of the ball. No not profoundly better but enough to give them an edge. Michigan & Harbaugh made it a point to out recruit OSU and beat them. End result, a National Championship. Do you agree?

 

[Nitt1300]

Disagree.

Bear Bryant wouldn't

 

[Midnighter]

Bear Bryant wouldn't

He’s dead.