is one of the most demoralizing things as a fan. There's a rumor that David Turner might retire but why not announce that now. I'm just shaking my head on the approach we are taking.
Rehash topic - the fact we are "running it back" with our defensive coaches...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
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It doesn’t make sense. Big boy programs don’t do this. I don’t like the piling on that has been happening, but this truly is a failure top to bottom. Pick anybody in the food chain to blame and I will have a hard time arguing with you.
The reason we all keep bringing it up is that it makes so little sense that we all feel like we are missing something. Unfortunately I don’t think we are. I legitimately think this is how bad all of these guys are at their respective jobs. Once again, I pray I am completely wrong.
The reason we all keep bringing it up is that it makes so little sense that we all feel like we are missing something. Unfortunately I don’t think we are. I legitimately think this is how bad all of these guys are at their respective jobs. Once again, I pray I am completely wrong.
If they announce DT is leaving we lose our JUCO connection. C'mon now. You know we are mining that and the directional schools for impact DL. Eta I hate piling on DT but get serious. Imo we are not bad at LB and safety. Need a CB probly. I don't have any confidence these juco DL are gonna make an impact against the much better SEC linemen. Am I right ? That is the #1 need. And obviously now another QB since we screwed that whole situation up
I have a theory on that…. I think it’s Lebby trying to buy himself more time. When we suck again next year he can blame his staff and fire them then. And our slow to react administration will probably give him a Year 3.
Is there money available to fire/hire or are Lebby/Selmon being told to lie in their bed and make it work? Feels like most every staff hire in the football program has been a head scratcher. The folks writing checks may simply smell a turd and don't feel like giving it more money until there are people around that know how to make good hires.
Can't announce the new DL coach until Oklahoma finishes their bowl game.
(it will be one of their GAs)
(it will be one of their GAs)
Get Hutzler better players.
I want to laugh but there’s a lot of M-State in that parenthetical.
It's like we're not even trying.
That’s it. That is 100% it. I have no doubt we are, but it sure doesn’t feel or look like it
Literally defies any logic or reason. There's likely not a wetter blanket you could toss on the end of this season and the beginning of the next. <-I tossed the "likely" in because we are MSU...
I've been a pretty vocal supporter of the idea that Selmon has gotten a lot of crap for things he did not do, and a lot of dislike prior to him having an opportunity to make any big decision, but this is ultimately on him. He hired Lebby. As a leader, you give your people room to do their jobs up to the point that they are harming the entity in a bad way. He should have stepped in mid-season, told Lebby to fire the DC, and helped breathe a little hope that we have competent leadership. Honestly, the contract we gave Hutzler should have been torn up before it was initially signed and some leadership provided to Lebby on how not to make dumb commitments to unproven ST coaches.
ETA: It's endearing that you think we have an "approach"
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That is absolutely the approach they are taking, and the narrative they are building. Dumpster fire, no foundation, 3-year rebuild, we know better, execution, etc. etc. etc. And our fanbase has lapped that up just like they did when Croom took over for Jackie. And just like back then, the 'better players' never came. The players we had at the end of Croom were about like the players we had at the end of Jackie. We all understand our recruiting limitations here, it's no secret, no magic wand.
We all know the outcome, so yeah, we're all shaking our heads. Some saw it early, some see it now. What's worse is that some still believe. And those include Keenum and Selmon.
I would have felt a little better with Hutzler if we basically fired everyone else but to keep EVERYONE is insane
Gents, if we go winless in the SEC again next year and Lebby is 0-16 in two years surely they fire everyone right? Has our (questionable) administration given up so badly they will just stand by and shrug their shoulders for going 0-16? If they give him another year after that, why do we bother giving money and going to the games?
We can hide our heads in the sand, but our football foundation has some rot. Our staff, amenities, gameday experience, NIL package, etc., must be improved to compete. Unfortunately, until we fix those, I don't think recruiting will change. These kids have better options than attending Mississippi State. People who don't get this have not been to an away game in the past 2-3 years.
This isn't 2014 anymore. Everyone has evolved except us.
This isn't 2014 anymore. Everyone has evolved except us.
We need to get Ed O on the staff to show us how it's done. Not even kidding
I think this may be part of it. I doubt their refusing to pony up to fire Hutzler, but I doubt they're pushing it. We had a moron negotiate Hutzler's deal and over pay somebody with no experience when we should have been hiring somebody with DC experience. If we pony up a couple of million dollars to fire him, we're then going to have to overpay somebody to come to a dumpster fire, and we'd have somebody untrustworthy making the DC hire and then somebody incompetent negotiating the contract, and we'd very likely have to be paying a buyout to terminate that deal along with Lebby's in two years at most, maybe one.
Save that powder for NIL and see if Lebby and Hutzler can surprise people this year. Probably wont', but it will be probably $3M more available to help fix the program after this year.
bingo. This is way it hasn't bothered me to keep Hutz. Let him and Lebby have every opportunity to succeed. When they don't.... can them; 11/25.
I think there is a lot of truth in that. I'd like to believe Lebby will let this play out knowing he's potentially safe because his offense will at least move the ball. Then after next season, we can go after a seasoned DC with the money we saved on not firing CH. I know that's wishful thinking, but whatever...
We have put ourselves in a really bad position. We are now in a position where we will have to grossly overpay for players to come here (if a player is asking for 1.5 mil, and it is between us/AU/AL/LSU etc, we cannot simply offer what they are asking because they will choose the others over us for the same money every time). Right now we dont have the funds to be able to overpay for a player and wont for the foreseeable future. But lets say we do play the game and scrape up enough funds to be able to overpay for a year or two, you then open pandoras box of setting that precedent and have to do it every year. It is simply not sustainable for us as I see it. We are in a death spiral right now that we may never crawl out of.
Also - this is conspiracy theory - but now that Mullen is warm on coaching again, I could see the money guys saving up on package to get him to Starkville if it looks like he's performing well at UNLV. Even if there are boosters that didn't like him, by this point they have to admire the fact he had such a long run of performance we all are wishing for right now. It also would make it easier to get talent here. Easy to sell a story that Mullen can win here since he has. Lebby? It's a gamble at best. Maybe that even tightens up NIL funds for Lebby right now if they feel there a good possibility in a 1-2 year no brainer replacement? Is that fair to Lebby? Not at all but that's how the world works.
Unfortunately, this is EXACTLY what I think will happen. Selmon will still be in charge, since we don't have the stones to fire him. Historical context can help predict the future. And because we'll get better....hard not too. May go 3-9 or 4-8, but overall the thing still won't work. But if we lose to USM.....eek, but maybe that expedites things. But I don't know if I want to sacrifice that much just to shed Lebby. That's a big, black mark not felt by our fanbase since in almost 40 years and I think we've forgotten how bad it sucks. Remember when they swept us in baseball???? Multiply it by a thousand. At least we got revenge at the end of the year.
I don't think our money guys are that organized or planning anything strategic. Just a day by day thing. Remember, these guys tried to fire Mullen in 2013.
Maybe. I suspect that someone in the room wanted a year of no to little turnover in the staff. Absolutely wrong year to do it but that is my theory.
Things are so bizarre and upside down right now in our program there must be a reason. Could this be the reason (saving money to see what Mullen does so we can bring him back)? It's as plausible a reason as any other.
We couldn't lure him out of retirement, but I know our defense (and defensive recruiting) would improve immediately if we could.
The defense is probably the biggest reason for my apathy. We've had down years here and there but in recent history that side of the ball has been consistently good to great. The drop from Leach to Arnett to Lebby has been incredibly steep.
Selmon and Lebby both are robbing us. They will leave with a pocket full of cash and us with serious case of red ***. Everyone needs to stand up and say no with their money. Stop giving money or buying tickets until a change is made. Force their hands.
Cigar boys aren't gonna put up w/another terrible year and loss in EB. Lebby will be 2 and done and Salmon gone with him
This was me when we first hired Lebby. I knew it wasn’t going to work. I’ve said that from the beginning. The reason is that schematically trying to do things similar to everyone else, but with less money and common schemed talent, is never going to work here. It never has. Except with some of Jackie’s offenses, but that’s only because they were paired with and complimented an extremely niche less common defense approach especially with Dunn. We’ve got to do things differently guys or you’re just going to be in this never ending hamster wheel. It’s insane to keep hiring people who try to do common based schemes on both sides of the ball here at State.
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