Run-first QBs still can't win it all in the NFL.....

[OG Goat Holder]

At the end of the day, it's been proven time and time again that passers beat runners, no matter how hard the push is for the runners. Jalen Hurts had a super team assembled, best OL in the land, freak wideouts and an elite running game behind him. Still couldn't make it happen. Same song different verse. And this Chiefs team is NOT as good as previous Super Bowl winning teams, or even as good as the 2019 team (Chiefs are just America's team, what can I say). Cam got close, never made it, got hurt. Mike Vick got close, never made it, got hurt. Lamar Jackson hasn't done it, now he's hurt. Those 3 are about as good as they come when it comes to true runners.

HOWEVER, I will say, if there is a runner that can make it 5-6 seasons without getting hurt, he may be the guy. While most QBs were playing baseball or basketball in the offseason growing up, Hurts was powerlifting.

Then you got RG3 out there crying saying if they had protected running QBs his career would have lasted longer. WTF?

 

[Perd Hapley]

Agree that its difficult for run first QB’s to win it all. Disagree that last night was an example of that. Hurts had 11 more pass attempts than Mahomes last night and threw for 122 more yards, despite Philly leading for most of the game. Also led his team to more offensive points than Mahomes did. Hurts simply isn’t just a “run first” QB anymore. He has evolved quite a bit.

Now, if you want to examine the next few years with Lamar Jackson and Justin Fields, you might find more support for your argument.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

At the end of the day, it's been proven time and time again that passers beat runners, no matter how hard the push is for the runners. Jalen Hurts had a super team assembled, best OL in the land, freak wideouts and an elite running game behind him. Still couldn't make it happen. Same song different verse. And this Chiefs team is NOT as good as previous Super Bowl winning teams, or even as good as the 2019 team (Chiefs are just America's team, what can I say). Cam got close, never made it, got hurt. Mike Vick got close, never made it, got hurt. Lamar Jackson hasn't done it, now he's hurt. Those 3 are about as good as they come when it comes to true runners.

HOWEVER, I will say, if there is a runner that can make it 5-6 seasons without getting hurt, he may be the guy. While most QBs were playing baseball or basketball in the offseason growing up, Hurts was powerlifting.

Then you got RG3 out there crying saying if they had protected running QBs his career would have lasted longer. WTF?

I think what rg3 meant was, “if I had been better, my career would’ve been longer”

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Jalen Hurts couldn’t hold the starting spot at Bama. Heck with the OL, WR’s and RB’s that Philadelphia had, Will Rogers could win 12 games at Philly.

 

[57stratdawg]

I don’t think we should slam guys into “running” or “passing” boxes. Which one does Josh Allen fall into?

The Eagles scored 35 last night. Hurts threw for over 100 more yards on 11 more attempts. Mahomes ran for 45 yards himself. In fact, the two QBs were 2nd and 3rd in the game in rushing yards behind only Pacheco.

Having said all of that, the biggest advantage the offense has is in the passing game. Between illegal contact, pass interference, can’t hit the QB high or low, there are a lot of ways to extend drives.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Agree that its difficult for run first QB’s to win it all. Disagree that last night was an example of that. Hurts had 11 more pass attempts than Mahomes last night and threw for 122 more yards, despite Philly leading for most of the game. Also led his team to more offensive points than Mahomes did. Hurts simply isn’t just a “run first” QB anymore. He has evolved quite a bit.

Now, if you want to examine the next few years with Lamar Jackson and Justin Fields, you might find more support for your argument.

He did play well, but his skill was making unbelievable catches. He's just not as accurate. Without the run, he's not nearly the threat.

On the other hand Mahomes makes it easy for his skill players. Of course, he is the best out there right now.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don’t think we should slam guys into “running” or “passing” boxes. Which one does Josh Allen fall into?

The Eagles scored 35 last night. Hurts threw for over 100 more yards on 11 more attempts. Mahomes ran for 45 yards himself. In fact, the two QBs were 2nd and 3rd in the game in rushing yards behind only Pacheco.

Having said all of that, the biggest advantage the offense has is in the passing game. Between illegal contact, pass interference, can’t hit the QB high or low, there are a lot of ways to extend drives.

Both. To me it depends on whether or not you're an elite thrower. If you are, sure, run, but if you do that a lot, you will get hurt. That's why Allen is so deadly, similar to Cam....again.....until he got hurt.

Hell Mahomes CAN and DOES run. But he does it when he has to.

 

[Perd Hapley]

He's just not as accurate.

Not as accurate as who? He completed 67% of his passes this year. That’s pretty damn strong.

Without the run, he's not nearly the threat.

You could say the same thing about any modern QB, including Mahomes, Josh Allen, Dak, and others. That still doesn’t mean those guys are “run-first”.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Not as accurate as who? He completed 67% of his passes this year. That’s pretty damn strong.



You could say the same thing about any modern QB, including Mahomes, Josh Allen, Dak, and others. That still doesn’t mean those guys are “run-first”.

Meh, that doesn't really tell us much. Plus that's with his own super-team. Big time sliding scale with all that.

Allen does do a lot of running. But he's also dynamic through the air. Put Mahomes or Allen on the Eagles and they are 20-0. I bet Dak would be better than Hurts as well.

 

[mstateglfr]

Mahomes this regular season
67.1% complete
8.1 passing yards per attempt
38.11 attempts per game
308 yards passing per game
329.88 total yards per game
1.9% passes intercepted
105.2 QBR
5.9 rushing yards per attempt

Hurts this regular season
66.5% complete
8.0 passing yards per attempt
30.66 attempts per game
246.73 yards passing per game
297.4 total yards per game
1.3% passes intercepted
101.5 QBR
4.6 rushing yards per attempt


During the regular season, Hurts threw it 460 times and ran it 165 times. So he threw it 2.75 times for every 1 time he ran it. Is that run first?
FTR, I would be happy if either had replaced Ben in Pittsburgh. Both have excellent completion %, both are mobile, both have good QBR ratings, and both accounted basically for 300+ yards of offense between passing and running each game.

Not really sure why either is being criticized for style of play. Their styles of play are excellent. Excellent styles of play.
But a narrative will exist wherever someone tries to force one to exist.

 

[Chesusdog]

Agree that its difficult for run first QB’s to win it all. Disagree that last night was an example of that. Hurts had 11 more pass attempts than Mahomes last night and threw for 122 more yards, despite Philly leading for most of the game. Also led his team to more offensive points than Mahomes did. Hurts simply isn’t just a “run first” QB anymore. He has evolved quite a bit.

Now, if you want to examine the next few years with Lamar Jackson and Justin Fields, you might find more support for your argument.

Fields will be washed out of the league in a few years.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Fields will be washed out of the league in a few years.

Agreed. He'll be broken in half.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Meh, that doesn't really tell us much. Plus that's with his own super-team. Big time sliding scale with all that.

Allen does do a lot of running. But he's also dynamic through the air. Put Mahomes or Allen on the Eagles and they are 20-0. I bet Dak would be better than Hurts as well.

How accurate is he compared to Trent Dilfer? Nick Foles? Joe Flacco? Eli Manning? Brad Johnson?

Sliding scale or not, he’s a good enough and accurate enough QB to win a Super Bowl, and he proved it all season and last night. He’s not the same QB as he was in 2015 when he was taking off every other play as a freshmen at Bama.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

How accurate is he compared to Trent Dilfer? Nick Foles? Joe Flacco? Eli Manning? Brad Johnson?

Sliding scale or not, he’s a good enough and accurate enough QB to win a Super Bowl, and he proved it all season and last night. He’s not the same QB as he was in 2015 when he was taking off every other play as a freshmen at Bama.

He did? I saw the Chiefs win.

Fortunately for those other guys, they had a defense behind them, and played in a different era, really. Eli was pinpoint accurate and he won 2 Super Bowls due to it. He is not the same as those other guys who were simply game managers.

All I'm saying is, the run-first QB has not won a Super Bowl yet. I don't know that they ever without some luck from the other opponent, because the Eagles had the super team and supposedly had a good defense. And run-first QBs generally get hurt.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

This is just goat trying to bait someone into calling him a racist. Don't fall for it.

 

[onewoof]

113M viewers. 3rd most watched event in USA history

 

[tired]

There are no “run first” qb’s in the NFL.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Hurt is damn good but he can't do it all by himself. Philly's running game didn't do shiat against KC .

 

[HRMSU]

I don’t think we should slam guys into “running” or “passing” boxes. Which one does Josh Allen fall into?

The Eagles scored 35 last night. Hurts threw for over 100 more yards on 11 more attempts. Mahomes ran for 45 yards himself. In fact, the two QBs were 2nd and 3rd in the game in rushing yards behind only Pacheco.

Having said all of that, the biggest advantage the offense has is in the passing game. Between illegal contact, pass interference, can’t hit the QB high or low, there are a lot of ways to extend drives.

Josh Allen is a running QB. He can get really hot sometimes throwing it but his running is what's elite. His shelf life goes as his legs go.

 

[Perd Hapley]

He did? I saw the Chiefs win.

Fortunately for those other guys, they had a defense behind them, and played in a different era, really. Eli was pinpoint accurate and he won 2 Super Bowls due to it. He is not the same as those other guys who were simply game managers.

All I'm saying is, the run-first QB has not won a Super Bowl yet. I don't know that they ever without some luck from the other opponent, because the Eagles had the super team and supposedly had a good defense. And run-first QBs generally get hurt.

I must have missed where the Eagles defense wasn’t one of the best in the NFL. But they got abused in the 2nd half last night, and their punt team giving up the longest return in Super Bowl history didn’t help either. That is where the game was lost. Both QB’s played very well and delivered enough production to win the game. Philly just made too many mistakes on D….especially on those two plays from the 5 yard line where they gave up easy wide open out routes for TD’s twice in a row.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

This is just goat trying to bait someone into calling him a racist. Don't fall for it.

This is the dumbest take/troll on last night's game I've heard yet. I'm too tired of this argument someone else feel free to jump in. The one thing I will ask is how many teams outside of the those who have such a QB (KC, Buffalo) would take Hurts as their QB tomorrow? He actually can pass and has thrown a few big passes this season to Smith, Brown, Goedert, and others.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

This is the dumbest take/troll on last night's game I've heard yet. I'm too tired of this argument someone else feel free to jump in. The one thing I will ask is how many teams outside of the those who have such a QB (KC, Buffalo) would take Hurts as their QB tomorrow? He actually can pass and has thrown a few big passes this season to Smith, Brown, Goedert, and others.

Not many.

 

[Perd Hapley]

This is the dumbest take/troll on last night's game I've heard yet. I'm too tired of this argument someone else feel free to jump in. The one thing I will ask is how many teams outside of the those who have such a QB (KC, Buffalo) would take Hurts as their QB tomorrow? He actually can pass and has thrown a few big passes this season to Smith, Brown, Goedert, and others.

Exactly. At this moment in time, Hurts is the hands down the best QB in the NFC….arguably both the best running QB AND best passing QB in the NFC. If you’re the best QB in a conference, you can win the SB. That doesn’t mean he will win one, he may be the next Jim Kelly for all we know. But he won’t be the limitation that keeps it from happening. It’s actually way harder to get there than it is to win it, and Hurts has already proven capable of getting that done.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

This is just goat trying to bait someone into calling him a racist. Don't fall for it.

It’s certainly meant to stir debate. The race crap is in YOUR own head.