So I got to looking around at some Tiger Woods stats on Sunday

[missouridawg]

And I still don't think the general public knows exactly how great this dude was at golf.

He won his first major (Masters) at age 22.
By the time he was 30, he had won 10 majors.
By the time he was 35, he had won another 4 for 14 majors.

Then he hit the life troubles and didn't win another major for 11 years.

From age 34 to 44 he won 0 majors because of life/injuries/etc... There are obviously some self-inflicted nonsense here... but it feels like those 11 years, if a healthy and focused Tiger was playing golf, it's not out of the question that he would've won another 10 majors.

And then to win the Masters in 2019, is just absurd.

Anyways, I was kind of shocked when I saw that his age 34-44 years were largely wasted. You'd expect that to be prime for a golfer, right? Still in good physical condition, but 10+ years on tour gives you a mental edge the younger guys just don't have without experience.

 

[PirateDawg]

Jack Niclaus said he would rewrite all the record books when he first say him at the Masters. If not for the life issues he would have. With that said I think it will be harder for him as he moves forward. It was obvious he was in pain during the Masters. My experiece with muscle/joint pain is that age doesn't make it better. In fact, the opposite is true. I was amazed he was out there after only 14 months from the accident where he spent 3 months in the hospital. He is definitely a gamer!

 

[mcdawg22]

Yeah it’s hard to find a comparison to him is sports. Someone who is arguably the best of all time but lost half of their career. Koufax and Griffey Jr. come to mind. Tyson as well. Football everyone points to Bo Jackson but it seems unlikely he could play for 10 years with the way he ran. Barry Sanders still had wear on the treads when he gave it up. Who knows how good Sterling Sharpe would have been. For basketball Pete Maravich is up there.

 

[The Peeper]

When he was focused and healthy he was the GOAT. When he started chasing hookers and relying on pills to get up and to go to bed he lost it. This quote made me laugh. If she wanted to "get him out" it was to beat his arse w/ that pitching wedge she broke him out with:

November 2009
Woods crashed his SUV into a tree and a fire hydrant outside his Windermere, Florida, home. Nordegren broke the window to get him out, and Woods was later issued a careless driving citation and fined, Sports Illustrated reported.

 

[johnson86-1]

Yeah it’s hard to find a comparison to him is sports. Someone who is arguably the best of all time but lost half of their career. Koufax and Griffey Jr. come to mind. Tyson as well. Football everyone points to Bo Jackson but it seems unlikely he could play for 10 years with the way he ran. Barry Sanders still had wear on the treads when he gave it up. Who knows how good Sterling Sharpe would have been. For basketball Pete Maravich is up there.

Also weird to have a competitor so driven by competing/winning simultaneously get obsessed with other stuff. The only athletes that come to mind as far as being as driven are Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. Jordan was basically so driven by beating other people that he was imbalanced. Sort of amazing that this didn't cause him more problems outside of basketball. Kobe was driven by legacy, which possibly stopped him from winning as much as he could have. Tiger is apparently just obsessive about whatever he does, whether it being chasing poon, pretending to be special forces, or golf.

I'm sure there are others but kind of hard to stand out in football the same way because being driven can very easily cause you to play in a way that ensures your body will break down. Jerry Rice comes to mind as far as staying in shape and training to compete, but he never came across as almost pathological. Maybe that's just because you just don't see as much of football players because of their being 22 players on the field and wearing helmets hiding some of the emotion/interactions.

ETA: For baseball, maybe Nolan Ryan is equivalent?

 

[mstateglfr]

Yeah, he is better than Jack or Bobby or Ben or Arnold. Put Woods in their time, he is better. Put them in Woods' time, he is better.

But damn did he 17 up that singular driving life goal of his- win 19 majors.

 

[Dawg1976]

All the wasted years after 34. He could easily be around 22 majors now. Not only the hooker and family problems but abusing his body with the excessive workouts had to contribute to his back and knee problems. But he did ok for himself. Ha

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

The way he approached golf changed the game. His intense practice regiment and body training was almost unheard of in golf and now it’s pretty much the norm.

 

[Dgb02]

683 weeks ranked #1 and 281weeks consecutive #1, are the stats that are the most mind blowing to me!

 

[missouridawg]

683 weeks ranked #1 and 281weeks consecutive #1, are the stats that are the most mind blowing to me!

I only looked at the majors. What you state here is just absurd. And then when you go into regular tournament wins, top2s, top3s, top5s, and top10s... it all just feels like a video game once you max out the attributes. He was just insanely good.

 

[Bill Shankly]

You can't call him the greatest ever precisely because of the "life issues". Those turned out to matter athletically.

 

[patdog]

Exactly. Being the GOAT is being the best ever over time. If you want to see some really eyepopping stats, check out Jack Nicklaus from 1970 to 1981. 48 majors, 10 wins, 41 top 10 finishes, 34 top 5 finishes.

 

[Bill Shankly]

Exactly. Being the GOAT is being the best ever over time. If you want to see some really eyepopping stats, check out Jack Nicklaus from 1970 to 1981. 48 majors, 10 wins, 41 top 10 finishes, 34 top 5 finishes.

Jack is the GOAT. I have no doubt that Tiger would have passed him had not the "life issues" not happened. They did and Tiger didn't pass him.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

When he was focused and healthy he was the GOAT. When he started chasing hookers and relying on pills to get up and to go to bed he lost it. This quote made me laugh. If she wanted to "get him out" it was to beat his arse w/ that pitching wedge she broke him out with:

I know Tiger did a lot of questionable things but I still believe it was a product of the way he was raised with a golf club in his hand from the time he could walk. I doubt there was a lot of room for life lessons along the way. I don't know how well he was prepared for the success he had but you have to think there's a decent chance he was not properly prepared for it and suffered some of the perils of unheralded success.

At that time he was the king and it's good to be the king if you know what I mean.

 

[DAWG61]

Batman got lost for awhile after his daddy passed and so did Tiger. He also banged a bunch of stripper's too. Tiger's the goat though no debate about it. Jack played vs a fraction of the talent Tiger's had to face. There obviously was other hall of famer's during Jack's reign but the talent drop off after the top 10-15 names is severe compared to now.

 

[mstateglfr]

You can't call him the greatest ever precisely because of the "life issues". Those turned out to matter athletically.

Sure you can call him the greatest. Tiger has the record for most PGA Tour wins, 9 more than Nicklaus. 15 majors, 3 grand slams, and 3 US AM titles.
He simply won more PGA titles overall and is 2nd in majors.

Tiger may have a lost decade of success, but he still won more PGA tournaments. Thats wild. In spite of the lost decade, he has won more and won more often.

Nicklaus won 73 times in 588 appearances. He won 12.5% of the time he entered a PGA tournament
Tiger won 82 times in 358 appearances. He has won 23% of the time he entered a PGA tournament.


If you base the GOAT only on majors, then I guess Nicklaus is. If you base it on more than just a single point and actually look at careers, Tiger is.
Basing GOAT ranking on majors won puts Walter Hagen as the 3rd best golfer ever and he stopped playing during the depression.
And this is where it's worth pointing out that Tiger and Jack played in totally different eras. It's like trying to drop Chamberlain or Russell in the NBA today. They wouldn't average 22rpg like they did 50 and 60 years ago. Different game.





^ some of the above is my honest view and some is devils advocate. I just get a kick out of these sort of discussions when I see people with such confident declarations when comparing things that are 30-50 years apart in sports. It's just funny.
Jack isn't the best. Tiger isn't the best. Both are. Neither are. They exist in different eras and comparing them with such confidence is silly.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

There is no such thing as a GOAT. There are athletes that dominate their sport in their time. They are all a product of their time in the sport and can only be judged accordingly. Equipment, training, competition and technology are ever changing so you just can't compare across generations.

In my lifetime the example I like to site is in Boxing. Rocky Marciano in the golden age of Boxing goes 49-0 as a heavy weight. Muhammad Ali comes along about when I was born and declares himself the Greatest of All Time. They even put together a simulated match against the two and Marciano wins. But most people today would call the guy who lost 5 times the GOAT. The point is, you can't really compare the two. Marciano was the greatest in his time and Ali in his. No need to even discuss who is better.

Bobby Jones when he saw a young Jack Nicklaus play said "Jack Nicklaus is playing an entirely different game, and one which I'm not even familiar with". Jack effectively said the same about a young Tiger Woods to Arnold Palmer. Just let them all be the greatest of their time.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

The each made the next better

Jack had no one to chase, Tiger was driven by chasing Jack. Would’ve been really cool to see Jack and tiger in their primes at the same time. Tigers level of dominance is astounding, jacks performance in majors is astounding (most 2nd place finishes as well as wins).
And Jones doing what he did while being an amateur is astounding.
And tiger is why there are so many good players today.

 

[NukeDogg]

There is no such thing as a GOAT. There are athletes that dominate their sport in their time. They are all a product of their time in the sport and can only be judged accordingly. Equipment, training, competition and technology are ever changing so you just can't compare across generations.

In my lifetime the example I like to site is in Boxing. Rocky Marciano in the golden age of Boxing goes 49-0 as a heavy weight. Muhammad Ali comes along about when I was born and declares himself the Greatest of All Time. They even put together a simulated match against the two and Marciano wins. But most people today would call the guy who lost 5 times the GOAT. The point is, you can't really compare the two. Marciano was the greatest in his time and Ali in his. No need to even discuss who is better.

Bobby Jones when he saw a young Jack Nicklaus play said "Jack Nicklaus is playing an entirely different game, and one which I'm not even familiar with". Jack effectively said the same about a young Tiger Woods to Arnold Palmer. Just let them all be the greatest of their time.

AMEN! I'm so dang sick of everyone trying to crown someone as the GOAT of this and the GOAT of that. Different eras can't be melded into one thing. Well said Bruce

 

[patdog]

This is really the right answer. All any player can do is be the best of his generation. You just can't compare between generations. Training, equipment, money, strength of competition, field/course conditions, etc. are all different between eras.