So, I keep hearing all this stuff about how baseball recruiting for us has become difficult due to scholarship limitations. So anyway, my question is what exactly are the hope and lucky day scholarships? And why does Ole Miss get the lucky day and we don't? Im guessing that this is just a private donation and if it is, shouldn't it probably be our first priority, even before a practice facility. This might have been discussed but im just curious because you see these names thrown around alot and im sure alot of people don't fully understand why and how they exist.
Someone in the know...
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So, I keep hearing all this stuff about how baseball recruiting for us has become difficult due to scholarship limitations. So anyway, my question is what exactly are the hope and lucky day scholarships? And why does Ole Miss get the lucky day and we don't? Im guessing that this is just a private donation and if it is, shouldn't it probably be our first priority, even before a practice facility. This might have been discussed but im just curious because you see these names thrown around alot and im sure alot of people don't fully understand why and how they exist.
scholarships were developled and are funded by a private donation fromOM alum Frank Day. Some people say he specifically forbade any of the money to got to MSU students, but Doc was able to get $100,000 for some scholarship program at State. Regardless, the majority of the money goes to OM and USM students. These are basically the equivalent of the state lottery scholarships in other states.
Yes, it would be nice if someone would donate about $20,000,000 to get a program like this off the ground, but I don't know that it's a bigger priority than an indoor practice facility, or even upgrades to The Dude.
Yes, it would be nice if someone would donate about $20,000,000 to get a program like this off the ground, but I don't know that it's a bigger priority than an indoor practice facility, or even upgrades to The Dude.
is a scholarship that is funded by the Georgia lottery starting in 1993. It was the first of its kind so all lottery scholarships are generically often referred to as HOPE. Louisiana has TOPS. Tennessee has one and so do other states. TN, LA, and Ga's are unique in that they pay a lot of money yet are fairly easy to obtain (usually a 3.0 with admissible ACT). Therefore, its easy for them to get baseball players that qualify for those.
Lucky Day is a private scholarship funded by the late Frank Day. It provides scholarships to ole miss and southern students that score a 20 and have about a 3.0. It awards anywhere from 1k to 7k per year. Again, relatively easy to obtain. State doesn't get it b/c allegedly Day didn't care for State (though some try to claim that we just didnt ask for it which I don't believe). Doc actually got us $100K from the Day Foundation so that's a start. The amount of money it would take to have that type of scholarship is really high. It would just take a stroke of luck to get a huge donation. We just need to keep building the endowment.
But what many don't realize is that while these are disadvantages. They aren't huge disadvantages. Georgia has had HOPE since 1993. But they didn't get any good again until Polk (who still had some fire) got there. LSU has had TOPS throughout the Laval era, but they sucked--why? b/c of the coach and not the scholarship.
And most importantly, people need to realize that baseball players that go to college, for the most part, can afford to go. Scholarships, while nice, aren't a huge deal. Yes, there are certain cases where they are. But for the most part, they are not.
Our problem in recruiting is targeting the wrong players. The GPers shout about HOPE b/c they are dying for an excuse to be losers. Its sad.
Lucky Day is a private scholarship funded by the late Frank Day. It provides scholarships to ole miss and southern students that score a 20 and have about a 3.0. It awards anywhere from 1k to 7k per year. Again, relatively easy to obtain. State doesn't get it b/c allegedly Day didn't care for State (though some try to claim that we just didnt ask for it which I don't believe). Doc actually got us $100K from the Day Foundation so that's a start. The amount of money it would take to have that type of scholarship is really high. It would just take a stroke of luck to get a huge donation. We just need to keep building the endowment.
But what many don't realize is that while these are disadvantages. They aren't huge disadvantages. Georgia has had HOPE since 1993. But they didn't get any good again until Polk (who still had some fire) got there. LSU has had TOPS throughout the Laval era, but they sucked--why? b/c of the coach and not the scholarship.
And most importantly, people need to realize that baseball players that go to college, for the most part, can afford to go. Scholarships, while nice, aren't a huge deal. Yes, there are certain cases where they are. But for the most part, they are not.
Our problem in recruiting is targeting the wrong players. The GPers shout about HOPE b/c they are dying for an excuse to be losers. Its sad.
Exactly. A $100,000 endowment gives 3-4 scholarships at $5,000/yr (i.e. produces between $15,000-$20,000 per year in interest depending on the markets). Even at $1000/yr., that would only be 15-20 scholarships. Since it would have to be applicable for the entire student body, it would take tens of millions to endow something like this.
Seven Year Plan said:
If you're getting $15-$20K per year on only $100K investment, you're doing some damn good (risky) insesting. You can easily get that and more in the good years, but over the long term the stock market averages more like 10%-12%. </p>
Let's say we have some 32 ACT kid with a 4.0 that is a college baseball prospect.
Are you saying that he can earn an academic scholarship based on his academic merits, and we don't have to count that toward our baseball scholarship limits? If you are saying that, that is very different from my understanding.
Or are you saying because you can get that scholarship at a variety of schools and the school doesn't have anything to do with it, it doesn't count?
Can you clarify?
Are you saying that he can earn an academic scholarship based on his academic merits, and we don't have to count that toward our baseball scholarship limits? If you are saying that, that is very different from my understanding.
Or are you saying because you can get that scholarship at a variety of schools and the school doesn't have anything to do with it, it doesn't count?
Can you clarify?
don't count against the number allowed by the NCAA in those sports that give out partial schollys. For example, if you have a kid on a full-ride academically, say a Schilling Scholar, you simply give him a book scholarship and let the academic scholarship pay for the rest.
That's the argument against the HOPE-like scholarships, you can basically get an in-state player, that qualifes, in school guaranteeing him a full-ride and then use your 11.7 on out-of-state kids.
That's the argument against the HOPE-like scholarships, you can basically get an in-state player, that qualifes, in school guaranteeing him a full-ride and then use your 11.7 on out-of-state kids.
Exactly. Baseball, due to the limited scholarships has to try to take advantage of other scholarship opportunities. If a kid can get a full ride academically, then you let him do that and you treat him as a walk on for baseball, to save the other 11.7 for someone else.
And that's why the HOPE scholarships work so well. All you have to do is have that minimum GPA, and you qualify for one. It makes it tough for regular in state students to get into schools like UGA though, because they are so popular. And of course with a free ride, there are tons of in state students looking to get in on the HOPE scholarship. So many that they actually have to turn away a lot of students that do qualify for the HOPE scholarship.
I'm sure however that UGA and other lottery schools can make exceptions for baseball players and allow them in on that academic scholarship.
What's unclear to me though is whether or not the same can be done for football. I would think that if you could get an in state kid in school on a free academic ride, you'd be able to save the other 85 for someone else. That's what we had going with Cliff Davis before he quit. The Astros were paying for his school, so we didn't have to give him one of our 85 scholarships. He was technically a walk on.
And that's why the HOPE scholarships work so well. All you have to do is have that minimum GPA, and you qualify for one. It makes it tough for regular in state students to get into schools like UGA though, because they are so popular. And of course with a free ride, there are tons of in state students looking to get in on the HOPE scholarship. So many that they actually have to turn away a lot of students that do qualify for the HOPE scholarship.
I'm sure however that UGA and other lottery schools can make exceptions for baseball players and allow them in on that academic scholarship.
What's unclear to me though is whether or not the same can be done for football. I would think that if you could get an in state kid in school on a free academic ride, you'd be able to save the other 85 for someone else. That's what we had going with Cliff Davis before he quit. The Astros were paying for his school, so we didn't have to give him one of our 85 scholarships. He was technically a walk on.
is that they can be on solely academic scholarship but once they play, they are counted against the 85. That's probably why they did that with Cliff Davis.
Im not 100% so someone correct me if Im wrong. I just know that football is a full scholarship sport and academic rides can't be used to get around the 85 limit.
Another reason would be to put a football player on academic ride so that the athletic dept doesn't have to pay for his scholarship. He still counts against the 85 but saves the dept money. Im just speculating there.
Im not 100% so someone correct me if Im wrong. I just know that football is a full scholarship sport and academic rides can't be used to get around the 85 limit.
Another reason would be to put a football player on academic ride so that the athletic dept doesn't have to pay for his scholarship. He still counts against the 85 but saves the dept money. Im just speculating there.
is the two-sport athlete. If a student plays two sports - like football and baseball - even if his scholarship "officially" comes baseball, it will count against the 85 football limit. This was done to prevent the old scheme of filling up other sports teams - like baseball - with football players to circumvent the limit.</p>
and on any type of academic scholarship at all, you count as a full scholarship towards the team limitation. You can get need-based financial aid (Pell grants) from the government, but you can't get any type of non-athletic scholarship without it counting towards the team limit.
the scholarship is from a truly independent foundation -- say a Sumner Grant for instance. The University doesn't fund it. They don't have any sayso in who gets it. But, we sure could make sure we know the criteria and help the student athlete apply for it.
What about those?
What about those?
the key is that it is a legitimately obtained scholarship not based on athletics. A good coach will find a way to get players those scholarships and not let it look obvious. The problem at state is that our scholarships either require more academic merit or like the Sumner are limited to certain areas or other requirements.
But to answer the question, if a student receives a sumner award and plays baseball, it won't count against the 11.7.
But to answer the question, if a student receives a sumner award and plays baseball, it won't count against the 11.7.
O
Ole Miss Grad
Guest
I think the GP posters are grossly overestimating the amount of Ole Miss baseball players that get any Lucky Day money at all.
You have to be a Mississippi resident, 3.2 gpa, 20 ACT.....and it's need based, which is why very few of them would qualify.
You have to be a Mississippi resident, 3.2 gpa, 20 ACT.....and it's need based, which is why very few of them would qualify.
I know the long-term averages. The #s I used are what Ole Miss and, assumably, other schools have been getting over the last 5 or so years. Admittedly, those were pretty good years for the markets. I used the higher #s so that someone wouldn't post something to the effect of: "12%? Last year The MSU Foundation got 18.23% return. You are and idiot and know nothing about endowments."</p>
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