The Hubbard Green Light

[StateCollege]

Hubbard is the man, an elite talent. Without question our best offensive weapon. But it was tough to see him miss his last 8 three point attempts. Did you at any point say to yourselves "Ok you've gone cold, that's enough" or were you fine with him still pulling it with a hand in his face? For me, it felt like he was our best chance to come back so I was ok with it. But it was still tough to watch

 

[HuntDawg]

Hubbard is the man, an elite talent. Without question our best offensive weapon. But it was tough to see him miss his last 8 three point attempts. Did you at any point say to yourselves "Ok you've gone cold, that's enough" or were you fine with him still pulling it with a hand in his face? For me, it felt like he was our best chance to come back so I was ok with it. But it was still tough to watch

careful. you might get thrown off the board with that take.

Multiple trips down the floor where we didnt even attempt to run offense. He took a low percentage quick 3. I get told on this board shooters shoot...

He should have tried to effect the game in other ways. Drive and kick, get to the line, etc. but he doesnt have that game yet.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

careful. you might get thrown off the board with that take.

You haven't even sniffed the door.

 

[FlotownDawg]

I don’t think Hubbard taking 23 shots is good. We scored 83 points and beat OM by 12 with Hubbard only scoring five. If our offense devolved to Hubbard just jacking up 18 3-pointers per game, we aren’t going to win. We need other offensive weapons to win games.

 

[TNDawg1]

We don’t have an offense outside of green light Hubbard. How many times do you have to watch his teammates cower at scoring opportunities ? Of course we get down 23 pts and Rams gets loose, but he’s Mr 5 pts in a three game stretch most of the time. Shak attempting less shots than Bell at times. Hubbard is forced to look like X-games freestyle.

 

[onewoof]

9 for 23 was a bit much and imbalanced. That's Jordan/Kobe like green light, like the only reason people come to the games is to see that shooter shoot, whether he makes it or not.

 

[MSU Fan.sixpack]

I completely agree w/FlotownDawg. You can acknowledge he's our best offensive player by far but also want more team play on the offensive side down the stretch. He went cold down the stretch in the Kentucky game too and that let them come back. Taking long contested threes early in the shot clock. To Hubbard's credit, sometimes late in the 2nd half it does seem like everyone is scared to shoot and looking to him. We need to figure something else out besides jacking up threes.

 

[HuntDawg]

We don’t have an offense outside of green light Hubbard. How many times do you have to watch his teammates cower at scoring opportunities ? Of course we get down 23 pts and Rams gets loose, but he’s Mr 5 pts in a three game stretch most of the time. Shak attempting less shots than Bell at times. Hubbard is forced to look like X-games freestyle.

Weve got an offense. After about the 7 heave from out of nowhere, we should have dumped the ball down to the post. Got a double team, and got a good shot.

Our offense is green light hubbard because hubbard hasnt yet developed his game enough to do anything but score. He needs to drive, dish, get to the line, etc. When the shot isnt falling... he just doesnt have that offense yet.

But our offense for hubbards career will be green light hubbard until he learns to take better shot and use defenses trying to stop him as ways to get his teammates open and good shots

 

[HuntDawg]

I completely agree w/FlotownDawg. You can acknowledge he's our best offensive player by far but also want more team play on the offensive side down the stretch. He went cold down the stretch in the Kentucky game too and that let them come back. Taking long contested threes early in the shot clock. To Hubbard's credit, sometimes late in the 2nd half it does seem like everyone is scared to shoot and looking to him. We need to figure something else out besides jacking up threes.

Bingo. People remember the makes. Fail to realize he takes a LOT of bad shots that miss.. and miss way too often.

 

[ZombieKissinger]

Yeah, I’m a huge Hubbard fan, but the shots at the end of the game last night were mostly bad shots. They were also worse than many of the shots against UK, but that game was also a situation where there was a minute left and you had no choice.

 

[SorryDog]

What do y'all propose? Let DJ shoot more? Some more soft Tolu finger rolls? Watch Shak or Rams dribble out the shot clock?
We live or die by Hubbard. He's all we've got.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

Skewed a little by the fact we were playing from behind.

I’m sure when you have a three game stretch like he just had it’s easy to get into a hero ball mentality. Especially when you’re not getting much help from your teammates a lot of times.

We needed points in a hurry and he is our best and frankly only option for that. He’s a volume shooter and you’re gonna have nights where players like him struggle with efficiency. Think Marshall Henderson or a young Victoria Vivians.

 

[civildawg88]

I've never seen a basketball team more scared to shoot the ball than this one, besides Hubbard

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Somebody had to make something happen. So, I'd take my chances with him.
Would not say that about another player that we have.

 

[HuntDawg]

What do y'all propose? Let DJ shoot more? Some more soft Tolu finger rolls? Watch Shak or Rams dribble out the shot clock?
We live or die by Hubbard. He's all we've got.

After about the 5th miss in a row in a 2 possession game down the stretch. I'd probably have drawn up something to at least throw the ball in the post. The shot may still get back to hubbard but at least we arent heaving off balance low percentage shots early in the shot clock.

These werent we are down 12 with 2 min type shots. This was very much a ball game. We werent in desperation mode.

 

[Perd Hapley]

When he missed a few in the mid 2nd half against UK, I briefly thought, yeah lets see if we can get some more guys some open looks. Then in the next 5-6 possessions, you had Murphy totally brick two 3’s, Davis badly miss a wide open 3, and several other decent looks from guys like Matthews and other tertiary options come nowhere close.

Then I thought, “yep, this offense is Tulu option 1A, Hubbard option 1B, and if neither of them can get a decent look we have to simply pray that a token Jeffries 3 with the shot clock at 1 goes in, or we get fouled.” There’s no 3rd option in the offense that is remotely reliable. A&M rolled the dice on selling out to stop Tulu and letting Hubbard get looks, and it paid off for them.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

What do y'all propose? Let DJ shoot more? Some more soft Tolu finger rolls? Watch Shak or Rams dribble out the shot clock?
We live or die by Hubbard. He's all we've got.

My head might have exploded if in that last 2 minutes we were sending dj out there to airball 3s.

 

[HuntDawg]

When he missed a few in the mid 2nd half against UK, I briefly thought, yeah lets see if we can get some more guys some open looks. Then in the next 5-6 possessions, you had Murphy totally brick two 3’s, Davis badly miss a wide open 3, and several other decent looks from guys like Matthews and other tertiary options come nowhere close.

Then I thought, “yep, this offense is Tulu option 1A, Hubbard option 1B, and if neither of them can get a decent look we have to simply pray that a token Jeffries 3 with the shot clock at 1 goes in, or we get fouled.” There’s no 3rd option in the offense that is remotely reliable. A&M rolled the dice on selling out to stop Tulu and letting Hubbard get looks, and it paid off for them.

Agree. But this is what every team is going to do. They are going to take attempt to take Tolu away and let hubbard fire away. He's had his moments, but he's also shooting 36% from the arc. Teams are going to live with that and let him continue to heave his difficult 3s all night.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Shooters shoot. I’d tell him to never pass.

 

[onewoof]

Tolu shooting about 50% from within 2 feet

 

[HuntDawg]

Realize we all watched it:

But at 6:56 mark it was 63-58, Our next possesions were this:

Hubbard missed 3
Hubbard missed 3
Foul for free throws on a breakway
Hubbard missed 3
Hubbard missed 3

It wasnt until 3:30 that someone other than hubbard took a shot that wasnt a put back or breakaway. None were in offense type 3s, none were open clean looks.

At some point in that 3 minute stretch, we gotta run an offense and get a better look. If we had, we would have probably won.

 

[HuntDawg]

Tolu shooting about 50% from within 2 feet

Tolu was 4 for 5 on the night.

Have to get him more shots. If he's only getting 5 shots because of doubles.. then throw it to him, let him get doubled, and kick it out. He's actually not bad at that.

 

[mstateglfr]

We don’t have an offense outside of green light Hubbard. How many times do you have to watch his teammates cower at scoring opportunities ? Of course we get down 23 pts and Rams gets loose, but he’s Mr 5 pts in a three game stretch most of the time. Shak attempting less shots than Bell at times. Hubbard is forced to look like X-games freestyle.

Of course we do.

Shak driving and dumping or hitting a corner shooter.
Shak back cutting baseline from the corner.
Matthews cutting from the wing on a double team.
Tolu pivoting 8 times then pumping twice.
Shak driving and finishing.

etc etc etc.

All these things, and more, frequently happen in the normal run of our offense.
MSU is 145th out of 362 D1 teams in PPG scoring. Hubbard accounts for 22.6% of shots, so the rest of the team is taking 78% of the shots and clearly scoring(based on, you know, stats). Further, many of Hubbard's shots are because of the rest of the team is doing those things I mention above, and more- players are moving to the open spot, forcing defenses to cover, finding the open shooter, etc.

 

[onewoof]

Hubbard 28% from 3 last night. Tolu had 4 boards. Jeffries had 12. Davis had a good night. Shak was pitiful.

 

[NWADog]

Hubbard is the man, an elite talent. Without question our best offensive weapon. But it was tough to see him miss his last 8 three point attempts. Did you at any point say to yourselves "Ok you've gone cold, that's enough" or were you fine with him still pulling it with a hand in his face? For me, it felt like he was our best chance to come back so I was ok with it. But it was still tough to watch

He took those same shots against Kentucky and that’s what brought us back with a shot to win that game. Shooters are gonna shoot when they’re as good as he is. Who would you rather have take those shots? The only other two I’d even consider as he’s gone cold is Moore and Davis. Moore missed several wide open looks last night and Davis was the only other guy to hit shots last night. I’d rather Hubbard get those over Davis any night even when he’s missing. Tolu, Murphy and Bell combined for 8 points. So going in the paint wasn’t working either. I was fine with him taking those.

 

[pmack3641]

Agree. But this is what every team is going to do. They are going to take attempt to take Tolu away and let hubbard fire away. He's had his moments, but he's also shooting 36% from the arc. Teams are going to live with that and let him continue to heave his difficult 3s all night.

Don’t disagree with some of his shot selection or that he needs to drive and dish more, but that will come with maturity. One of the real issues is who’s going to score besides him. Tolu is only good down low, same with Matthews, DJ has no shot, Moore and Davis are so inconsistent never know What your going to get and you can forget about the bench. Other issue currently is Hubbard playing the point most of the game and has to create his own shot instead of working to get open. Until Jan’s has a better roster I’ll take his shooting all day.

 

[Anon1697564126]

What do y'all propose? Let DJ shoot more? Some more soft Tolu finger rolls? Watch Shak or Rams dribble out the shot clock?
We live or die by Hubbard. He's all we've got.

Every time Tolu doesn't dunk inside of 2 feet it should cost him NIL money. He'll be paying us inside of 3 games.

 

[MSU Fan.sixpack]

I would propose running actual offensive sets, moving the ball inside and out, and then if nothing happens then force up a three. The off-balance three is always there, you don't have to force it early on in the shot clock. I don't think you can get very far in a win or go home tournament format if you're close game offense down the stretch relies on one player chucking up threes off balance. You have to find other offensive options.