I don't have much doubt he will somewhat improve us next year. Heck, most any coach would. The question I have is, can we trust the guy who let last season happen, and then did absolutely nothing and let it happen again this year, not to let these type seasons happen again in the future?
The question I have with keeping Lemonis.
- Thread starter patdog
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By keeping him around, we should re-set our expectations to those of a mediocre big ten program. That's what he is. That's what we will get.
A bad season for Miss State should be a 4th seed in a California region. Too many schools get invites to regions for a program like Miss State not to get one. You miss the SEC tournament two seasons in a row when you have the best stadium, best fan base, and the most support in college baseball you are not going to improve very much the following year. That coach does not have the ability to improve. I also worry about the AD. Is he going to take baseball seriously enough to act.
I'm OK with missing a regional occasionally. It happens and has always happened. But when we miss a regional, it should be by just a few games and we should be right back in regionals and challenging for supers the next year.
We are the premiere college baseball program in terms of facilities and fans. But unfortunately not fan financial support through the NIL, which is why we are going to struggle going forward WITHOUT really strong coaching.
Lem ain't that guy.
Sorry to see him stay.
Lem ain't that guy.
Sorry to see him stay.
I have lots of doubt that he will improve the record next season.
Okay, we’ve had the Half-Empty argument. Here’s the Half-Full perspective:
One can make the case that there has been improvement.
RPI was 48 compared to 106 last year.
Nonconference RPI was 35 compared to 172.
Obviously there needs to be more improvement.
Much more.
The run rule losses are just tough to overlook. It’s hard to say we were more competitive and then see that we went 4-11 at home in SEC play including getting swept twice in our own stadium.
I honestly don’t care if we keep him or fire him, he’s already done for me what no other coach in MSU history couldn’t. My question is that if you put up blind resumes of potential coaches is there someone out there that has a better resume? I’m talking a reasonable prospective coach, not the guys who are not coming here regardless of the fans, the stadium, and the money.
No we cannot. He keeps saying over, and over, and over, and over, 'I have to do a better job' and then doesn't. That tells me two things. 1) He is giving us his best. That is good because I'd be pissed if we were losing because he was slacking off. 2) His best is not going to get the job done. That's bad and the only remedy is a new HC.
We should NEVER tolerate anyone capable of letting this happen to our baseball program especially on the heels of an NC!!
In their first 2 years a head coach gets an undeserved share of the credit if a team is good and an undeserved share of the blame if a team is bad. Years 3 and 4 tell you what you have and it doesn't take a lot of baseball intellect to figure this isn't going to work out:
2019: 52-15 (20-10)
2021: 50-18 (20-10)
2022: 26-30 (9-21)
2023: 27-26 (9-21)
2019: 52-15 (20-10)
2021: 50-18 (20-10)
2022: 26-30 (9-21)
2023: 27-26 (9-21)
Yep.
We’re all in agreement that you can’t make a glass is full argument until there’s a LOT more competitiveness.
premiere. There are a lot of teams right there with us if we are premiere... namely Arkansas and LSU right off the bat.
Facility wise its a LOT closer than people think. Florida, SC, Tenn, LSU, Arkansas you should take a look at.
Fan support wise, we are steady, but our attendance numbers are blown out of proportion. Outside of SWB and a regional-- we rarely pack the place full.
Before people start jumping down my throat-- I'm not saying ours isnt one of the best-- its just people throw around our crowds and faciltiies-- and truth be told if you look around the SEC-- a lot of programs are right there with us. And our crowds and facilities arent enough to sway a prosepct to come to our place. Its like choosing b/t a Cadillac and BMW, not choosing b/t a BMW and a ford.
There’s no question that this year’s team was better than last year’s team. The 2nd half version of last year’s team, anyway.
It’s still just all about the pitching to me. Hire a pitching coach that knows what he’s doing and things change for the better immediately….even if we’re still middle of the pack or even 11th / 12th in the SEC. You could do a blind roster swap of our entire pitching staff with a random program from the Sun Belt, and we would gave gotten better results than this past year. I refuse to believe that the talent is that bad, and that nobody can throw strikes because they all suck. Its never that simple.
I don't see him impoving this team. Try and name me your pitching rotation for next season? There is not one guy on the roster now I feel comfortable starting on Friday, Saturday, heck even a Sunday game. Maybe some of the guys who stay might improve to be able to give us an inning or two next season, but not 4 to 6 innings of SEC play. He has to completely rebuild that rotation in a year and hope for no injuries (and hire someone decent to coach them). Don't see it happening. I would rather see us cut him loose, but I don't write those big checks. His post game responses don't give me confidence he knows how to fix this.
Yes. We definitely improved our scheduling. That’s about all RPI tells you.
Unless Cade Smith comes back, it needs to be 3 transfers we don't know about yet.
"We are the premiere college baseball program in terms of facilities and fans"
That's an argument fans make and not one the best recruits put at the top of their list now. Anyone can borrow a ton of money to build a nice stadium. The stadium is nice but it matters less to top recruits than fans believe. Good luck telling a great recruit: "sure, you might get more money elsewhere but look at our facilities and fans."
"And I just bet you'd take the BMW, wouldn't ya?"
Nope. I can afford a BMW but I bought a Honda. I don't need a BMW for status and would rather not spend so much on a symbol (BMW's are really nice cars, though). Look at who the best recruits are choosing to play for and get back with on the BMW vs. Cadillac (facilities) argument. Is there any evidence that players offered more money elsewhere choose State because our left field is better than say Vandy's? Do BMW owners get all the hot wives and girlfriends? Well, that might not be a good question considering the natural hypergamy of women. State won a Natty two years ago but has the potential to be a mediocre baseball program because that's been the case under Lemonis the past two years. Will Lemonis fix it? Can we recruit SEC caliber pitchers and other skilled players by pointing to Polk-Dement and saying LSU, Florida, Vandy, Arky, S.C. and others ain't got this model BMW? Think of the fans too. And have you had the biscuits and gravy at Starkville Cafe? The best.
That's an argument fans make and not one the best recruits put at the top of their list now. Anyone can borrow a ton of money to build a nice stadium. The stadium is nice but it matters less to top recruits than fans believe. Good luck telling a great recruit: "sure, you might get more money elsewhere but look at our facilities and fans."
"And I just bet you'd take the BMW, wouldn't ya?"
Nope. I can afford a BMW but I bought a Honda. I don't need a BMW for status and would rather not spend so much on a symbol (BMW's are really nice cars, though). Look at who the best recruits are choosing to play for and get back with on the BMW vs. Cadillac (facilities) argument. Is there any evidence that players offered more money elsewhere choose State because our left field is better than say Vandy's? Do BMW owners get all the hot wives and girlfriends? Well, that might not be a good question considering the natural hypergamy of women. State won a Natty two years ago but has the potential to be a mediocre baseball program because that's been the case under Lemonis the past two years. Will Lemonis fix it? Can we recruit SEC caliber pitchers and other skilled players by pointing to Polk-Dement and saying LSU, Florida, Vandy, Arky, S.C. and others ain't got this model BMW? Think of the fans too. And have you had the biscuits and gravy at Starkville Cafe? The best.
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I would not have given him another year because our problems went way beyond poor pitching. Poor fundamentals all around. Only way in hell I even consider giving him another year is if he agreed to a drastic change in his contract to make buyout far more palatable and cut his salary, perhaps base it more on incentives like wins, regionals, SR. etc.
Then I would consider offering the best pitching coaches in the country enough $ to make them jump, and just tell Lemonis that's where his paycut is going...take it or leave it.
Then I would consider offering the best pitching coaches in the country enough $ to make them jump, and just tell Lemonis that's where his paycut is going...take it or leave it.
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Hitting was noticeably better. Pitching was noticeably worse. Overall turned out to be a wash.
Minimum expectations next year to keep the Lemon. MUST have a Regional at large bid secured well prior to the SECT. Which means we need to have wins totaling somewhere in the mid-30s or higher. A conference record of around .500 or better. And at least be competitive in whatever Regional we are assigned. And then going forward, he must assure we don't hit rock bottom again like we have the last 2 years. Have to recruit like a big dog ALL THE TIME !!
I agree with this. I can't put my finger on it but there seems to be more going on within the program than just poor performance, poor instruction, and poor development. I hope I am wrong but I fear that those issues are not the true root cause but, at least partially, symptomatic of an underlying cultural problem in the program.
The tea leaves and comments on his IG account suggest Cade isnt coming back. But it could be he is waiting to see where he is drafted. Speculation of course.
Yeah. I'm assuming he's gone and will be happily surprised if he's not.
I would believe you based on the overall stat line but I would say based on the eye test we tended to compete better at the plate or at least we seemed to improve as the season progressed vs last season. We had to do something better to still equal our win total of 9 SEC games with a pitching staff ERA 2 points higher than last seasons.
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