Three reasons we must move on from Arnett...

[thekimmer]

3. He is obviously over his head. He does not have a clue what he is doing. His post game comments are cringe worthy. His decision making is cringe worthy. His body language is cringe worthy. The team's play on the field is cringe worthy. The most telling thing is the defense. The defense never ran the air raid and Arnett was a successful defensive coordinator. Now suddenly the defense is the worst unit on the field BY FAR. We are a senior laden team that makes high school level mistakes. Zach Arnett = Chris Lemonis. Matt Brock = Scott Foxhall. Funny how that works out. We let this go in baseball but cannot afford let this go in football.

2. He was hired by a university president. This is exhibit A as to why to NEVER do this no matter how many people are advising him. I know we were in a tight spot last year but in hindsight it was a huge mistake for Keenum to make this hire.

1. The primary reason stated for his hiring is no longer valid. Keenum said Arnett was hired to maintain continuity of the program after leach's tragic death. This has been a miserable failure! We set a record for season ticket sales and now halfway through the season have lost the fanbase. I would imagine he has lost the players too. There is no continuity to maintain anymore. Selmon must now earn his keep.

 

[blitz2Win]

I never understood the continuity deal unless it was just a ruse to justify the hiring. continuity would have been to keep Leachs veteran staff in place , run the offense that all these 4th and 5th year seniors had run their whole career and keep the 9-4 team from the previous year on a winning trajectory. In hindsight blowing all that up was a disaster. may as well have brought in a new regime, as there was no continuity.

Losing so many players next year would have been the logical year to rebuild or make changes, certainly not this year.

 

[dorndawg]

It looks like we are currently favored by 20.5 points this Saturday. If Arnett somehow mucks that up, I'm guessing it's going to be a long walk off a short year.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I never understood the continuity deal unless it was just a ruse to justify the hiring. continuity would have been to keep Leachs veteran staff in place , run the offense that all these 4th and 5th year seniors had run their whole career and keep the 9-4 team from the previous year on a winning trajectory. In hindsight blowing all that up was a disaster. may as well have brought in a new regime, as there was no continuity.

Losing so many players next year would have been the logical year to rebuild or make changes, certainly not this year.

Yeah, and I think that was Keenum's mindset. Appears Arnett did not keep up his end of the bargain. Or that's at least how it seems to me. It SEEMS as if there could have been a clean break at the end of this year, if Arnett had decided he wanted to go in a different direction, scheme wise. But EVERYONE on the staff was owed another year, not just Arnett.

I had a bad feeling ever since that happened. And I don't blame Barbay, at all. I think Keenum maybe should have been more forceful with what the real 'plan' was.

 

[Podgy]

Remember The Western Michigan

 

[WGWFA]

judging by what has transpired this year I am beginning to think Arnett will not be here next year. I feel like Keenum made the hire so Selmon wouldn’t have to make a hire right out of the gate. Doing this should be giving Selmon enough time to evaluate rather or not to make a hire for the upcoming year. As of right now, I think we have our answer.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I never understood the continuity deal unless it was just a ruse to justify the hiring. continuity would have been to keep Leachs veteran staff in place , run the offense that all these 4th and 5th year seniors had run their whole career and keep the 9-4 team from the previous year on a winning trajectory. In hindsight blowing all that up was a disaster. may as well have brought in a new regime, as there was no continuity.

Losing so many players next year would have been the logical year to rebuild or make changes, certainly not this year.

IF continuity, as we heard, was the key, THEN he should have been forced to keep the offensive staff for year 1. I really need to go look at our depth chart to understand if any credit is due for defensive injuries, but it sure has been an unexpected weakness this season so far.

 

[ckDOG]

I think he was set up to fail by an admin making a lazy or panicked decision. I'm not sure what went down with the guys on the offense, but even if they were warm to staying at MSU after their guy passed, I bet they didn't want to roll the dice on working for a green HC and indicated that early on. That's a big gamble with your career.

So we hired a guy with no program management experience tasked with assembling a staff from scraps. Of course you take the promotion if you are ZA but he wasn't ready. Everybody knew it - we just hoped for the best. He seems to be a likable guy and I hope somehow he develops to be the next Saban but this was a real real dumb hire at this point in his career. He wasnt being groomed by Leach. Nobody else was targeting him as HC. Maybe a G5 HC job was in order at this point? Surely not an SEC HC spot.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

IF continuity, as we heard, was the key, THEN he should have been forced to keep the offensive staff for year 1. I really need to go look at our depth chart to understand if any credit is due for defensive injuries, but it sure has been an unexpected weakness this season so far.

Many of the defensive issues are coaching, plain and simple. Yeah we lost players but we aren't this bad. Arnett should have continued to call the defense this year. Him trying to be this 'CEO' and leave Brock alone tells me all I need to know. He fails to realize that Leach did NOT delegate the offense.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I think he was set up to fail by an admin making a lazy or panicked decision. I'm not sure what went down with the guys on the offense, but even if they were warm to staying at MSU after their guy passed, I bet they didn't want to roll the dice on working for a green HC and indicated that early on. That's a big gamble with your career.

So we hired a guy with no program management experience tasked with assembling a staff from scraps. Of course you take the promotion if you are ZA but he wasn't ready. Everybody knew it - we just hoped for the best. He seems to be a likable guy and I hope somehow he develops to be the next Saban but this was a real real dumb hire at this point in his career. He wasnt being groomed by Leach. Nobody else was targeting him as HC. Maybe a G5 HC job was in order at this point? Surely not an SEC HC spot.

Nah, this isn't true. Those guys wanted to come back, but Arnett didn't want them. He was dead set on 'correcting' things he saw in the program that he felt he needed to fix. He just didn't realize that those were the 20%, and he ignored the 80% that Leach did right.

 

[ckDOG]

IF continuity, as we heard, was the key, THEN he should have been forced to keep the offensive staff for year 1. I really need to go look at our depth chart to understand if any credit is due for defensive injuries, but it sure has been an unexpected weakness this season so far.

This seems like such an obvious strategy that I can't help but think they just said "deuces, nothing personal against ZA, but we aren't going to work for a guy getting his feet wet in the SEC".

If they wanted to stay and he let them go, that's fireable offense #1. If that's the plan he sold Keenum, then fire his *** too.

 

[ckDOG]

Nah, this isn't true. Those guys wanted to come back, but Arnett didn't want them. He was dead set on 'correcting' things he saw in the program that he felt he needed to fix. He just didn't realize that those were the 20%, and he ignored the 80% that Leach did right.

How certain are you? Or were we just trying to rationalize or save face when they decided to bounce?

 

[thekimmer]

Many of the defensive issues are coaching, plain and simple. Yeah we lost players but we aren't this bad. Arnett should have continued to call the defense this year. Him trying to be this 'CEO' and leave Brock alone tells me all I need to know. He fails to realize that Leach did NOT delegate the offense.

The problem with that is as a rookie HC who is already over his skis with those duties he does not have the bandwidth to run the program and call the defense.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The problem with that is as a rookie HC who is already over his skis with those duties he does not have the bandwidth to run the program and call the defense.

Fair enough, but even we see it all. That's why I wonder why it's so hard. It was a tough time when Leach died, but to me, that makes it more clear.

- I think most knew the Air Raid at MSU was sort of swimming against the tide, and that we needed to get back to a more run-based niche scheme. So it was smart to go with the defensive guy, who wasn't married to offense.
- Arnett would not have been a HC if not for this situation, so that tells us it's an interim situation. The rest of the staff should have been afforded the same grace. Most should have just carried on in the same role and focused on football and recruiting.
- Whether it worked or not, after the 2023 season would have been a clean break for everyone. Then Arnett, if successful, could have built the program the way he wanted.

I think even the national media would have agreed that this was the best way to go. And Arnett could have immediately went and go another DC job had it failed. But this takeover and transition to a role he's not suited for (CEO) was just dumb. Most coaches who are offensive or defensive guys are heavily invested in that side of the ball. It's the recruiters like Dabo or Orgeron who make good CEO coaches, and even they can mess it up when they get too involved (because a lot of time that slickster-talk personality makes you dumb). Croom would have probably succeeded more too as a CEO.

 

[ronpolk]

You don’t need hindsight to tell you this was a bad hire. It was a bad hire from the start. Something an SEC program shouldn’t do. The effort is going to start getting worse from some here soon. A couple more losses and Arnett will lose the team, if he has not already. Younger guys will start worrying more about the portal than anything else. And coaches will start worrying about their next job.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

It was definitely a bad time to flip the whole script. In particular if you were making Arnett the head coach. That's enough change. Leave it be and transition. If you look at my posts last year thats exactly what I was saying. The majority on this site said that was crazy. Spurrier had to go blah blah blah. If he was OC material he would be an OC already. And maybe it would not have worked but could it be any worse ??? Slow transition as opposed to rip the band aid off. Terrible portal roster management also btw. Either im incredibly stupid or they are. Not sure which

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

I like Arnett, but he’s making a great salary, so I rationalize that it won’t ruin his career to fire him if needed. I am hopeful that Barbay works out and Arnett can wrangle in the defense much better. His demeanor on the sidelines and press conferences of late make me feel like he has been told it’s over. I hope I’m wrong because that’s a miserable way to spend a season.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

judging by what has transpired this year I am beginning to think Arnett will not be here next year. I feel like Keenum made the hire so Selmon wouldn’t have to make a hire right out of the gate. Doing this should be giving Selmon enough time to evaluate rather or not to make a hire for the upcoming year. As of right now, I think we have our answer.

Interim but with the title for appearances? Kind of dumb to bring in a bunch of new assistant coaches for that. Arnett screwed himself on not staying with modified air raid or going to portal to get a qb that s a better fit in the offense.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Interim but with the title for appearances? Kind of dumb to bring in a bunch of new assistant coaches for that. Arnett screwed himself on not staying with modified air raid or going to portal to get a qb that s a better fit in the offense.

Bingo.

You don’t need hindsight to tell you this was a bad hire. It was a bad hire from the start. Something an SEC program shouldn’t do. The effort is going to start getting worse from some here soon. A couple more losses and Arnett will lose the team, if he has not already. Younger guys will start worrying more about the portal than anything else. And coaches will start worrying about their next job.

It was a bad hire, I think we all agree, but I still don't see it as a bad decision to go that route. I think Arnett is the biggest one to blame here, and I really do hate to pin it all on one person. But that's the way it appears. Maybe a little blame goes to Keenum too for clearly laying out the rationale.

 

[thekimmer]

Interim but with the title for appearances? Kind of dumb to bring in a bunch of new assistant coaches for that. Arnett screwed himself on not staying with modified air raid or going to portal to get a qb that s a better fit in the offense.

Maybe, but sticking with the air raid still would not improve the defense which is the biggest issue by far.

 

[mcdawg22]

Yeah, and I think that was Keenum's mindset. Appears Arnett did not keep up his end of the bargain. Or that's at least how it seems to me. It SEEMS as if there could have been a clean break at the end of this year, if Arnett had decided he wanted to go in a different direction, scheme wise. But EVERYONE on the staff was owed another year, not just Arnett.

I had a bad feeling ever since that happened. And I don't blame Barbay, at all. I think Keenum maybe should have been more forceful with what the real 'plan' was.

What would that look like? If we went 9-4 this year with a solid O and offensive staff was let go people would have been in an uproar. In your scenario there are two options.
1. It’s a closely guarded secret that we are getting rid of that staff, then at the end of the year those guys are let go despite being successful, how does that look and what is the reaction in coaching circles.
2. It’s an understanding that we are going to move on after this year, so the staff is basically looking for jobs the entire year. It’s like Geoff Collins except for an entire year.

We either needed to make moves like we did, or stay with the staff after this year if we were successful.

Honestly, our offense has done enough to be 3-2, even though the performance has been less than ideal. We kept the defense together and look at how that is working out.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

What would that look like? If we went 9-4 this year with a solid O and offensive staff was let go people would have been in an uproar. In your scenario there are two options.
1. It’s a closely guarded secret that we are getting rid of that staff, then at the end of the year those guys are let go despite being successful, how does that look and what is the reaction in coaching circles.
2. It’s an understanding that we are going to move on after this year, so the staff is basically looking for jobs the entire year. It’s like Geoff Collins except for an entire year.

We either needed to make moves like we did, or stay with the staff after this year if we were successful.

Honestly, our offense has done enough to be 3-2, even though the performance has been less than ideal. We kept the defense together and look at how that is working out.

Of course there is some unknown there. And if everything was successful and we went 9-4, Arnett could also choose to keep those guys, and stick with a modified Air Raid going forward. But he never let that plan play out, and we cut bait immediately because Arnett heard the fans scream RuN dA bAwL mOaR!!1

 

[ckDOG]

Maybe, but sticking with the air raid still would not improve the defense which is the biggest issue by far.

It would have helped a little. Talent drop off in the secondary is the biggest issue - no argument there. Air raid was a little more consistent with higher 3rd down %. We are a little more explosive this year but have a sorry 3rd down % (rank = 110) and kill a lot of drives early. Likely bc it's a brand new system - we have decent talent. We are close to -6 minutes on TOP per game which is a recipe for suck unless you put up a ton of pts.

Again...some of that is **** defense. Some of that is unnecessary stress from short drives bc the team has a brand new system to learn.

 

[birdawg]

Keenum made the right call when hiring ZA under the circumstances. I think it opens the door for firing him after 1 season by letting Selmon "get his guy".

In fact, I hope that was Keenum's strategy when naming ZA HC before having an AD in case ZA flamed out as a first time HC. The goal was to hold this very experienced roster together. ZA did that, but screwed the pooch on the field. So let Selmon get his guy.

 

[mcdawg22]

Of course there is some unknown there. And if everything was successful and we went 9-4, Arnett could also choose to keep those guys, and stick with a modified Air Raid going forward. But he never let that plan play out, and we cut bait immediately because Arnett heard the fans scream RuN dA bAwL mOaR!!1

Understood. It just looked like you were suggesting that a change come after the 2023 season regardless.

I don’t care if we throw it 60 times or run it 60 times as long as points go on that scoreboard. I’ll admit the old State fan in me tightens up every time we drop back, but 2015 Dak, and 21/22 Will Rogers did a lot to alleviate that side effect.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Understood. It just looked like you were suggesting that a change come after the 2023 season regardless.

I don’t care if we throw it 60 times or run it 60 times as long as points go on that scoreboard. I’ll admit the old State fan in me tightens up every time we drop back, but 2015 Dak, and 21/22 Will Rogers did a lot to alleviate that side effect.

Yeah. I'm just assuming that if Arnett already was skeptical of the Leach guys and was frustrated (and I think he was considering he got rid of them and that the prevailing thought was that we won with defense in spite of the offense), then there would likely be some friction during the year, no matter how good we were.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Arnett might have been worried about loyalties respect and jealousy for getting head job from guys like spurrier and muller. Who knows. Arnett might not have liked air raid at all. Peterson may have been behind most of it. Not sure.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Keenum made the right call when hiring ZA under the circumstances. I think it opens the door for firing him after 1 season by letting Selmon "get his guy".

In fact, I hope that was Keenum's strategy when naming ZA HC before having an AD in case ZA flamed out as a first time HC. The goal was to hold this very experienced roster together. ZA did that, but screwed the pooch on the field. So let Selmon get his guy.

Questions is who is Selmon's guy? He is tight with OU but went to wake. I'm hoping he is thinking we need experience.

 

[swagdog]

1. The primary reason stated for his hiring is no longer valid. Keenum said Arnett was hired to maintain continuity of the program after leach's tragic death. This has been a miserable failure! We set a record for season ticket sales and now halfway through the season have lost the fanbase. I would imagine he has lost the players too. There is no continuity to maintain anymore. Selmon must now earn his keep.

I saw one of our players posting on Instagram Stories DURING the game Saturday... He made a sack on the opening drive and then shared the highlight someone had posted to his stories not even 5 minutes later.

That's when I knew the game, and the season, was over.

 

[PhredPhantom]

Selmon will not fix this problem.
Selmon will not fix this problem.
Selmon will not fix this problem.
He lost me when he kept Lemonis after last season. He appears to just be in the AD position to draw a paycheck. He gets paid the same whether we win or lose.

Lemonis should have been gone at the end of last season. He's still here.
Arnett needs to go at the end of this season. He'll be here again next season.
Selmon need to go ASAP. He'll still be here next year because We are Mississippi State.

 

[patdog]

And two reasons we won't. Mark Keenum and Zac Selmon.

 

[SylvesterCream4.0]

Selmon will not fix this problem.
Selmon will not fix this problem.
Selmon will not fix this problem.
He lost me when he kept Lemonis after last season. He appears to just be in the AD position to draw a paycheck. He gets paid the same whether we win or lose.

Lemonis should have been gone at the end of last season. He's still here.
Arnett needs to go at the end of this season. He'll be here again next season.
Selmon need to go ASAP. He'll still be here next year because We are Mississippi State.

This guy gets it. Nothing will be done because Selmon does nothing. Hope for a winless SEC record and a miracle if you want ZA gone.

 

[RockyDog]

Selmon already has his man. Caleb Williams is off to the NFL and his coach doesn’t want to play in the Big 10. Lincoln Riley is in the bag!!!

 

[Darryl Steight]

It would have helped a little. Talent drop off in the secondary is the biggest issue - no argument there. Air raid was a little more consistent with higher 3rd down %. We are a little more explosive this year but have a sorry 3rd down % (rank = 110) and kill a lot of drives early. Likely bc it's a brand new system - we have decent talent. We are close to -6 minutes on TOP per game which is a recipe for suck unless you put up a ton of pts.

Again...some of that is **** defense. Some of that is unnecessary stress from short drives bc the team has a brand new system to learn.

Agree with most of what you're saying, except the secondary being the biggest issue. I think there are two main problems about the defense this year:
1. Arnett was a better DC than Brock.
2. Injuries have absolutely killed us up front. Williams being out (and now done for the year) is a huge blow. He was maybe our best depth guy and probably starter by the end of the year. De Russell being out has hurt. Dinkins is the strongest guy on the team and at least a depth guy, and maybe our best 'clog the middle' guy on short yardage. Not only have we missed their play, but it makes Pickering and Crumedy be almost helpless by the second half because they play every snap. And to relate it to our pass defense - no pressure AT ALL on the opposing QB is disaster for the secondary. We could have Smoot, Bean, Slay, and Banks back there but with no pressure on the quarterback it wouldn't matter.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Relax, Francis. We're gonna get it together and go 7-5 this year, in spite of a first year Coach, sub par assistants and the worst talent in the SEC West.

 

[3407Dewey]

3. He is obviously over his head. He does not have a clue what he is doing. His post game comments are cringe worthy. His decision making is cringe worthy. His body language is cringe worthy. The team's play on the field is cringe worthy. The most telling thing is the defense. The defense never ran the air raid and Arnett was a successful defensive coordinator. Now suddenly the defense is the worst unit on the field BY FAR. We are a senior laden team that makes high school level mistakes. Zach Arnett = Chris Lemonis. Matt Brock = Scott Foxhall. Funny how that works out. We let this go in baseball but cannot afford let this go in football.

2. He was hired by a university president. This is exhibit A as to why to NEVER do this no matter how many people are advising him. I know we were in a tight spot last year but in hindsight it was a huge mistake for Keenum to make this hire.

1. The primary reason stated for his hiring is no longer valid. Keenum said Arnett was hired to maintain continuity of the program after leach's tragic death. This has been a miserable failure! We set a record for season ticket sales and now halfway through the season have lost the fanbase. I would imagine he has lost the players too. There is no continuity to maintain anymore. Selmon must now earn his keep.

You may be right, but allow me to retort...
3. Cringe worthy post game comments are all over the sport. Arnett isn't the only one out there making stupid comments. If you want to fire him based on the performance of the defense, you have to wonder what really is the difference between last year and this year. We have far more continuity in the coaching staff on the defensive side of the ball. We're largely running the same scheme. So what changed? From what I can tell, we lost some key players and have some key injuries. Well then, we should have recruited better, right? Yes, but that's not on Arnett. At least not yet.
2. So who makes the hire then? Bracky? Or just wait until... when? After signing day?
1. I also wonder about whether he has lost the players. So far, I don't think that he has. With Morehead, I saw a lot less effort and a generally undisciplined team. I don't see that this year. Maybe that's just a continuation of the culture Leach established. If we start seeing players throwing coaches or each other under the bus, that will be a good indication that we have a culture problem. Arnett seems to be pissed. What he does about it will be important. It's funny reading here on the board the different perspectives. Half of the crowd is upset that the coach is too calm and the other half is upset that he's not tantruming bad enough. To me, it just doesn't matter. Planning and execution and instilling confidence in the players is more important than the emotions you're wearing on your sleeves.

 

[birdawg]

Selmon will not fix this problem.
Selmon will not fix this problem.
Selmon will not fix this problem.
He lost me when he kept Lemonis after last season. He appears to just be in the AD position to draw a paycheck. He gets paid the same whether we win or lose.

Lemonis should have been gone at the end of last season. He's still here.
Arnett needs to go at the end of this season. He'll be here again next season.
Selmon need to go ASAP. He'll still be here next year because We are Mississippi State.

I think comparing the firing of a HC that won a National Championship within the prior 3 years vs a 1st time HC that was hired bc the former HC died are completely different scenarios.

 

[Son_of_34]

Selmon will not fix this problem.
Selmon will not fix this problem.
Selmon will not fix this problem.
He lost me when he kept Lemonis after last season. He appears to just be in the AD position to draw a paycheck. He gets paid the same whether we win or lose.

Lemonis should have been gone at the end of last season. He's still here.
Arnett needs to go at the end of this season. He'll be here again next season.
Selmon need to go ASAP. He'll still be here next year because We are Mississippi State.

Selmon let one of ours best home grown fund raisers in the department walk because of his ego...he's also in over his head and in competition to be worse than LT