Thunder & Lightning: Another Loss Keeps Mississippi State On The Bubble

[HD6]

Mississippi State saw another opportunity get away on Saturday in Arkansas, and the Bulldogs are running out of chances to put a signature win on their NCAA Tournament resume. Brian Hadad and Robbie Faulk take a look at the clock, which shows little time left for Ben Howland’s team to...
The post Thunder & Lightning: Another Loss Keeps Mississippi State On The Bubble appeared first on SuperTalk Mississippi.


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[The Peeper]

When will this "bubble" burst? There have been posts/threads on this site for weeks and weeks saying every game during that stretch was a "must win" and every loss killed any remaining chance we had, yet, here we are. Eternal optimists?

 

[dawgstudent]

When will this "bubble" burst? There have been posts/threads on this site for weeks and weeks saying every game during that stretch was a "must win" and every loss killed any remaining chance we had, yet, here we are. Eternal optimists?

As long as we hold serve at home and win 2 on the road (here's looking at you Missouri, South Carolina, Texas A&M, LSU, Alabama) - I think we make the tourney. We play Auburn in Starkville so we might need 3 on the road.

If we go 10-8 or better in the conference, we make it.

Tennessee
@ LSU
@ Alabama
Missouri
@ Missouri
@ South Carolina
Vanderbilt
Auburn
@ Texas A&M

I think State finishes 6-3 or 5-4. So that puts us at 20-11 (11-7) or 19-12 (10-8). I think we get in with that record regardless of SEC tournament. Anything less - need to make some noise in SEC tournament.

 

[thekimmer]

As long as we hold serve at home and win 2 on the road

I agree with that but here is the rub. We have to win on the road where we are currently winless and holding serve at home includes beating #1 Auburn. If we don't do that now we have to find 3 road wins.

I think the fact that we are even on the bubble is a sign we need to move on. This is year 7 with 1 NCCAT and 0 wins. This was predicted to be a solid tournament team in pre-season. Enough already. No hard feelings. (All of the 'howland clowns' nonsense is unnecessary and harmful BTW.) Thanks for trying but its just time to turn the page.

 

[dawgstudent]

It's a catch 22 for me with men's basketball.

I know we haven't made a tournament consistently. I know we are putting lipstick on a pig with the Hump renovation. We don't seem to invest in the atmosphere and make good decisions around gameday. We probably should make the change with Howland.

But at the same time, I think if we fire Howland - MSU basketball will be worse than when Rick Ray was coaching for about 5-7 years. It's a huge risk in my opinion to let him go and I'd rather be at least respectable.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

It's a catch 22 for me with men's basketball.

I know we haven't made a tournament consistently. I know we are putting lipstick on a pig with the Hump renovation. We don't seem to invest in the atmosphere and make good decisions around gameday. We probably should make the change with Howland.

But at the same time, I think if we fire Howland - MSU basketball will be worse than when Rick Ray was coaching for about 5-7 years. It's a huge risk in my opinion to let him go and I'd rather be at least respectable.

If you fire Howland, you have to have his replacement lined up. I’d be ok with that scenario. If not, keep Howland another year.

 

[patdog]

It is a catch 22. One issue I have with Howland is when have we ever exceeded expectations based on our talent level? Never. We've had maybe 1 or 2 years where we've overall performed to our talent level, but we **** the bed in the postseason even then. I think we go 4-5 and are back in the NIT again. However, I agree I don't think you can fire Howland. He consistently does just enough to keep his job.

 

[oh yeah]

I still think we don't have anyone with a 'killer instinct/I'm gonna close this thing out and not let us lose the game' type mentality. We've lost too many games late in the second half. Some of it is obviously coaching, with the offensive play sets but someone needs to step up and close out games.

 

[thekimmer]

If you fire Howland, you have to have his replacement lined up. I’d be ok with that scenario. If not, keep Howland another year.

I absolutely agree with this. We tried the faux retirement schtick with Stans. Nobody bought it and neither will they buy with howland so you gotta have your boy in the boat before hitting the eject button on ben.

 

[dawgstudent]

I absolutely agree with this. We tried the faux retirement schtick with Stans. Nobody bought it and neither will they buy with howland so you gotta have your boy in the boat before hitting the eject button on ben.

And it's precisely what we did with Rick Ray. Ben Howland is the greatest hire in MSU history based on past accomplishments. Still amazed that we were able to get him.

 

[thekimmer]

It's a catch 22 for me with men's basketball.

I know we haven't made a tournament consistently. I know we are putting lipstick on a pig with the Hump renovation. We don't seem to invest in the atmosphere and make good decisions around gameday. We probably should make the change with Howland.

But at the same time, I think if we fire Howland - MSU basketball will be worse than when Rick Ray was coaching for about 5-7 years. It's a huge risk in my opinion to let him go and I'd rather be at least respectable.

We are going to take a step back next season no matter who has the job. I would rather risk falling into the basement to take a chance on improving our program than being a perpetual NIT invitee. I don't see how canning Ben would put us worse than Rick Ray. We got Ray because we had the audacity to just summarily dump the winningest coach in our history and do it without a plan. Howland has a good reputation but he hasn't done squat at state.

 

[thekimmer]

And it's precisely what we did with Rick Ray. Ben Howland is the greatest hire in MSU history based on past accomplishments. Still amazed that we were able to get him.

He had a good resume but his accomplishments at state do not agree with the greatest hire statement.

 

[dawgstudent]

I repeat he is the greatest hire at Mississippi State based on past accomplishments.

 

[MSUDC11]

Still amazed that we were able to get him.

I mean he had been out of coaching for two years at the time.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Howland went to one NCAA tournament in his last 5 years at UCLA and it was a first round loss. He was fired because UCLA fans felt his style of offense was boring and fan apathy set it. UCLA has been to 4 NCAA tournaments including 2 Sweet Sixteens and one Final Four since firing Howland.

 

[dawgstudent]

2 years is nothing. This isn't like he was out of coaching for a decade.

 

[The Peeper]

Ron Polk II jumps up and down and screams "Look at me, look at me!". At that point he had built 3 different programs from nothing and taken those 3 different programs to the NCAA College World Series

 

[MSUDC11]

2 years is nothing. This isn't like he was out of coaching for a decade.

The time is less important than the mere fact that he was out of coaching. That's how we got him. We hired him away from the PAC 12 Network or whoever he was doing TV for at the time, we weren't really competing with other schools trying to hire him. We gauged his interest early in the 2014-2015 season and it was basically a done deal by the time we were for sure getting rid of Rick Ray.

 

[VegasDawg13]

When will this "bubble" burst? There have been posts/threads on this site for weeks and weeks saying every game during that stretch was a "must win" and every loss killed any remaining chance we had, yet, here we are. Eternal optimists?

Anyone that called any of our games that we've lost a "must win" was wrong. Our NET has us on the bubble. A loss to a strong team doesn't really hurt our NET. So none of these games against really good teams are must-wins in a vacuum, but we have to eventually get one or two of them or our resume is going to be weak.

 

[dawgnabit]

It's a catch 22 for me with men's basketball.

I know we haven't made a tournament consistently. I know we are putting lipstick on a pig with the Hump renovation. We don't seem to invest in the atmosphere and make good decisions around gameday. We probably should make the change with Howland.

But at the same time, I think if we fire Howland - MSU basketball will be worse than when Rick Ray was coaching for about 5-7 years. It's a huge risk in my opinion to let him go and I'd rather be at least respectable.

This is where I have fallen. I was bought in at the beginning of the season but now have grown apathetic towards it. It seems our administration has put basketball on the backburner so why shouldn't we? We have had atmosphere issues in the Hump for over a decade and nobody has tried anything to fix it. Our fans have grown distant from the program, and we seem to just carry on and hope it gets better. It sucks because I grew up loving MSU basketball even more than football (born in '93 so my childhood consisted of the Croom era in football)

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Howland went to one NCAA tournament in his last 5 years at UCLA and it was a first round loss. He was fired because UCLA fans felt his style of offense was boring and fan apathy set it. UCLA has been to 4 NCAA tournaments including 2 Sweet Sixteens and one Final Four since firing Howland.

3 of 5, not 1 of 5, and 2 losses in the Second Round

 

[RiverCityDawg]

It's a catch 22 for me with men's basketball.

I know we haven't made a tournament consistently. I know we are putting lipstick on a pig with the Hump renovation. We don't seem to invest in the atmosphere and make good decisions around gameday. We probably should make the change with Howland.

But at the same time, I think if we fire Howland - MSU basketball will be worse than when Rick Ray was coaching for about 5-7 years. It's a huge risk in my opinion to let him go and I'd rather be at least respectable.

I fully understand this perspective and agree to a large extent, though I don't think him "retiring" necessarily means we would be worse than the Rick Ray days. That's a possibility but the worst case scenario, I think.

But with that said, it doesn't seem like very many people are enjoying the product right now. Even the wins are ugly and sighs of relief more so than fun and entertaining. Each fan has to weigh this in their own minds, but I think the risk of moving on from Howland is worth it to possibly inject some life into the program. I don't see the downside as being that much worse than where most fans are now, which is apathetic or perpetually frustrated.

I get wanting to be respectable, but my apathy level is near Rick Ray levels, so personally, if we don't make the tournament, I would like to see us go in a new direction.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

So I guess the confidence is low that Cohen would make a good hire?