Thunder & Lightning: Did Mississippi State Make the Right Move in Extending Mike

[HD6]

Thunder & Lightning: Did Mississippi State Make the Right Move in Extending Mike

Mississippi State gave Coach Mike Leach a contract extension and raise this week, locking in Leach as the head man until 2025. Right move for the Bulldogs, or should John Cohen have let the season play out before making that decision? Brian Hadad and Robbie Faulk discuss that plus hit...
The post Thunder & Lightning: Did Mississippi State Make the Right Move in Extending Mike Leach’s Contract? appeared first on SuperTalk Mississippi.


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[Ralph Cramden]

You guys didn't dig too deep into that question. I know he has a lot of haters but I'm not exactly sure why. He has the best winning percentage of any coach we have had. I guess time will tell

 

[MSUDC11]

You guys didn't dig too deep into that question. I know he has a lot of haters but I'm not exactly sure why. He has the best winning percentage of any coach we have had. I guess time will tell

People can’t get over the 0-2 Egg Bowl record and also took a bowl game where we were missing a ton of guys unusually hard.

It’s easy to focus on the low points I guess (those two games plus Memphis) but yeah we had a bunch of quality wins that our own fans give Leach like zero credit for. The Kentucky and NC State teams we beat had really good years, and winning in College Station or in Auburn is always a great accomplishment, we did both. And were a kicker away from winning in Fayetteville too.

But people are too upset about the last two games to realize we bring back 8 starters on both sides of the ball from a team that was Top 30 in total offense and total defense last year. What should probably be a year with a good bit of excitement going in isn’t at all.

But look, you’re free to spin our situation however you’d like. I just don’t agree at all with the notion that last year was a total bust and think we have a chance to be really good this year.

 

[patdog]

He has the best winning percentage of any coach we have had.

Fake news. Dan Mullen, Jackie Sherrill and even Joe Moorhead have a higher winning percentage.

 

[Smoked Toag]

People can’t get over the 0-2 Egg Bowl record and also took a bowl game where we were missing a ton of guys unusually hard.

It’s easy to focus on the low points I guess (those two games plus Memphis) but yeah we had a bunch of quality wins that our own fans give Leach like zero credit for. The Kentucky and NC State teams we beat had really good years, and winning in College Station or in Auburn is always a great accomplishment, we did both. And were a kicker away from winning in Fayetteville too.

But people are too upset about the last two games to realize we bring back 8 starters on both sides of the ball from a team that was Top 30 in total offense and total defense last year. What should probably be a year with a good bit of excitement going in isn’t at all.

But look, you’re free to spin our situation however you’d like. I just don’t agree at all with the notion that last year was a total bust and think we have a chance to be really good this year.

Can't say it much better than this.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Fake news. Dan Mullen, Jackie Sherrill and even Joe Moorhead have a higher winning percentage.

You need to learn how to use Google. Jackie was .500. Leach is .686. Mullen is like .59 ? Career head coaching wins and losses. Google it CNN

 

[Smoked Toag]

You need to learn how to use Google. Jackie was .500. Leach is .686. Mullen is like .59 ? Career head coaching wins and losses. Google it CNN

You're all over the place. You're using the Kang's percentage at MSU and Leach's career percentage. Patdog was at least using MSU-only.

 

[Faustdog]

If you want to use MSU only it's unfair to count the covid year in 2020 where we had next to no practice and played a full slate of SEC games only.

 

[patdog]

The other teams had spring practice? And one of the 2 added SEC games was Vanderbilt, so they really did us a favor there.

 

[MSUDC11]

If you want to use MSU only it's unfair to count the covid year in 2020 where we had next to no practice and played a full slate of SEC games only.

Exactly, especially considering how many times Mullen went to bowl games with a sub .500 SEC record. Heck he had a 7-6 team in 2011 that went 2-6 in conference with the only two wins being against terrible Kentucky and Ole Miss teams.

 

[Mjoelner]

Did the other teams, even those with new coaches, totally flip their offense from the previous year 180 degrees?

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Has any MSU coached survived going 0-3 against Ole Miss in Egg Bowls?

 

[patdog]

Wade Walker went 0-5-1 in Egg Bowls, including losing 4 in a row before he was fired in 1961.

 

[natchezdawg]

That was not the only factor at play though..

Felker and Emory both lost three in a row and ended up being fired, but neither Coach had a winning season in any of those three years. Three straight losing seasons was a bigger factor than losing to Ole Miss.

 

[thatsbaseball]

LOL I don't know but I'll bet none have ever lost less sleep about it **

 

[Smoked Toag]

Did the other teams, even those with new coaches, totally flip their offense from the previous year 180 degrees?

I don't think anybody is using this to hate on Leach, they just need consistent facts.

But to your point....if a coach has to flip an offense and that takes a few years, well, that's their problem, along with the AD who committed to that. However, in our case, it wasn't as bad as you say, as Moorhead had already started transitioning us to a passing offense. That's why Leach succeeded sooner than he otherwise would have.

 

[MSUDC11]

Has any MSU coached survived going 0-3 against Ole Miss in Egg Bowls?

That’s a bit of a loaded question. Historically if we are losing three straight Egg Bowls we are having several bad years in a row. We’ve never had a coach lose three straight Egg Bowls but also go to bowl games in each of the three years, which could easily happen this year. Just looking at the EB record may not necessarily tell the whole story.

 

[Faustdog]

Right. Add 3-4 gimme non-conference games and you have a more fair comparison.

The other posters also make a fair point about such a drastic system change with extremely limited practice time.

 

[dorndawg]

That’s a bit of a loaded question. Historically if we are losing three straight Egg Bowls we are having several bad years in a row. We’ve never had a coach lose three straight Egg Bowls but also go to bowl games in each of the three years, which could easily happen this year. Just looking at the EB record may not necessarily tell the whole story.

Going to a bowl is so much easier today than even a few years ago. Making a bowl in football = making the SEC tournament in baseball; i.e., a baseline expectation.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Oh I apologize. Jackie was a stout .666 in his career totals. Where does that rank him ?? I stand by my statement. Obviously the way last year ended was very disappointing but I think extending him was the correct decision. I expect improvement this year as we have seen each year.

 

[paindonthurt]

It was 100% the right decision. Some of these people can’t get out of their own way.

 

[Smoked Toag]

Going to a bowl is so much easier today than even a few years ago.

Untrue. 12 game schedule became permanent in 2006. Since then, it's all about your OOC. From 2006-2009, we played a P5 OOC opponent. We didn't for the most part throughout Mullen's tenure (this OK State once, BYU twice), so it's fundamentally harder to get to 6-6 now that we have a permanent P5 opponent (6-6 is the real threshold we're talking about here, not just "making a bowl", which can be variable).

If we go to a 9-game SEC schedule, it will get even harder.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

We need the SPS list of people who were for him from the start and against him from the start. I suspect it would be exceptional that anyone who started on one side has seen enough evidence to change their mind the other direction and I bet posting history supports that. And I'm certain that I'm not bored enough to go figure it out.

 

[Smoked Toag]

We need the SPS list of people who were for him from the start and against him from the start. I suspect it would be exceptional that anyone who started on one side has seen enough evidence to change their mind the other direction and I bet posting history supports that. And I'm certain that I'm not bored enough to go figure it out.

Agree, but most people were always in the middle. I was for him, solely because we had already wasted 2 years trying to become a passing team, so I figured we may as well double down and get the most pass-happy guy out there and see if it would work out. We've never done it before, so why the hell not.

Ultimately I think we're more of a running program, but I'm willing to ride this Air Raid train as far as it takes us. If it can ever get us either past 10-2, or at 10-2 maybe twice in a row, I'll be a believer.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

I was for him. I realize it might be a failed experiment but judging his past accomplishments I think it will work out pretty good. I don't think we will win the SEC but I bet we get into the 9-3, 10-2 range regularly. Which for us would be rarified air. He does not really have losing records. Maybe 3 times in his career ? And that's usually first and second year. And yes, this is the SEC, not Pac 12 or whatever it was. But he also will have studs here that he only dreamed of a WSU

 

[dawgstudent]

You need to learn how to use Google. Jackie was .500. Leach is .686. Mullen is like .59 ? Career head coaching wins and losses. Google it CNN

Pretty sure Jackie was 68-47-2.

 

[Go Budaw]

The other teams had spring practice? And one of the 2 added SEC games was Vanderbilt, so they really did us a favor there.

The other teams were all SEC teams. 3-7 that year is a better SEC winning percentage than 2011, which was a legit bowl team with 6 wins. You pretty much have to throw that year out when talking about overall winning percentage compared to other MSU coaches.

Leach is currently 7-11 in SEC play. .389 winning percentage in his first 18 games.

Mullen was also 7-11 in SEC play in his first 18 games….except he had the advantage of not playing 10 of those 18 games in his first year with a new system.

That’s a more applicable comparison. Just food for thought.

 

[BrunswickDawg]

Pretty sure Jackie was 68-47-2.

2001-03 don't exist in your timeline. I like that.

 

[HD6]

Yes, that is correct. Not sure where others are getting these numbers from.

 

[pmack3641]

Not a fan of Leach, but giving him a raise at this point is a non issue. Now if he has a losing 2022, loses the egg bowl again then it becomes a different story. What happens next, warm or hot seat or don’t wait just make a change.

 

[Seinfeld]

I had a work meeting this morning where something was proposed that I didn't particularly love, but I also didn't have a counter-proposal to offer, so we decided to just let it ride for now and come back to it next week. This is about where I sit with Leach.

Do I love him or think he's going to lead us to CFP? Not really, but do I have a better suggestion in this day and age of SEC supremacy, NIL, and the portal? Nope

And for what it's worth, I fully concede that Kiffin has been the better hire to date, but I'll also stand my belief that Leach will end up being the better hire in the long run.

 

[bsquared24]

Is it too much to ask that this type of salary be tied to results? Maybe 2M base, 250k per OOC win, 500k per SEC and bowl win, 1M for NY6 win. Results based …

 

[Ralph Cramden]

According to sports reference Jackie was 179-121 overall and 74 -76 at State.....so what is your reference source ??

 

[HD6]

I witnessed it personally.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Looking at coaches who have a long track record of "doing more with less" vs P5 conferences, something that is even more critical now with NIL, transfer portal, etc., you'd be hard-pressed to find a better one than The Pirate. Given our situation in the SEC, especially with OU & Texas coming in, I think doing what we can to keep Leach is a no-brainer.

Furthermore, last year's record should have been more like 9-3 or 10-2. We were a mediocre FG kicker and a couple of atrocious officiating calls/no-calls from being just that. In particular UPig & Memphis on the officiating. LSU may have turned on a decent kicker.

 

[patdog]

Furthermore, last year's record should have been more like 8-4 or 9-3.

We were 2-3 in games decided by 7 points or less. 4-4 in games decided by 14 points or less. 7-6 was about right for that team.

 

[blacklistedbully]

We were 2-3 in games decided by 7 points or less. 4-4 in games decided by 14 points or less. 7-6 was about right for that team.

Doesn't change the fact of what I posted. Most years you can find games on a lot of team's schedules like what you mention. So if you're gonna harp on his W/L record, it is only fair to point out what I did.

How many games did we win last year where the other team played better, but we won due to officiating or well-below average FG kicking?

 

[patdog]

The fact is, we were as close as we possibly could have been to .500 in close games. Sure, we could have easily been 9-4. We could have just as easily been 5-7.

 

[blacklistedbully]

The fact is, we were as close as we possibly could have been to .500 in close games. Sure, we could have easily been 9-4. We could have just as easily been 5-7.

But due to poor officiating & far below expectations from kickers. Can't really put that on Leach...not fairly anyway. For that matter, he had us playing better than OM in the Egg Bowl. Our players just stopped playing well enough.

I prefer to analyze Leach going forward based on what he had us prepared to accomplish, including the upside of the "could have gone either way" stuff. While you can correctly say the close games broke about even, you can't accurately say Leach was not hurt more by bad calls & terrible kicking than our opponents in the close games we won.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

I witnessed it personally.

Check your glasses then.