Todd's post got me thinking.....
- Thread starter DowntownDawg
- Start date
Most people seem to have gotten over any ill-will towards the Kang. I don't really know why, but that's the way it seems to be.</p>
...and I think it might have to do with the fact that he didn't make a complete *** of himself on the way out the door.
C
Cains Major
Guest
Ultimately Polk will be honored.... maybe later, but he will be forgiven. We think Polk has MSU in his best interest.(even though possibly now misguided). Now, the Jackel will be honored...but recognized, as one, you did not know if you could truly trust or not.
needs to go back and watch some tapes of those games. I'll always love him for what he did his first 10 years at MSU, but I'll never, ever forgive him for the shape he left the program in. And I'd just as soon not hear any of this NCAA investigation/probation brought us down ********. Other schools get investigated and put on probation and don't wind up where we were when he left.
Not only was that season horrible, not only should Jackie have resigned after the previous season, but on top of those things he announced his resignation the night before the Auburn game. Everything about that season sucked, even the news of his resignation, because you knew we had zero chance to even attempt to put up a fight the next day. Thanks Jackie
I like Ron ok overall, but heck, Polk hasn't accomplish anything of real note at MSU really since about 1990. Yea, we have made a couple of CWS runs under him since then (97, 07) but neither of those teams really were what I considered Omaha material. The 07 team was the last SEC team to get in the regionals and the 97 team, though better, was still a number 2 seed at home when we beat Washington (who as a #1 had to travel all the way across the country---wouldn't happen today). Let's face it, most of what Polk accomplished at MSU in baseball was done when the other SEC schools didn't give a rip about baseball whatsoever. Polk certainly has some accomplishments, but of all the men's sports programs at MSU, he's had by far the best advantage with the resources available to him.
Jackie, on the other hand, depite his last 3 lousy years, is the ONLY reason MSU has ANY football accomplishments whatsoever in the modern era of college football. Having to try and win in football (the kingpin college sport) in the toughest conference in America at a school with meager resources and a losing tradition, the KANG managed 7+ win seasons in 7 out of his first 10 years including 6 bowl trips and an SEC West title and having us in the lead with 6 minutes to go in the SEC championship game against the eventual National Champion Tennessee. Jackie Sherrill is the reason I care about MSU football today and was the one guy that showed the typical downtrodden MSU fan that we didn't have to just accept losing in football every year (minus the fluke once per decade bowl season). Jackie definitely accomplished a lot given the state of the program he had to deal with. If he had retired after the Snow Bowl win, he would still probably be revered at MSU in the same manner as the Bear at Bama. Even with his allowing the program to go in the toilet his last 3 years, I still can't forget all the fun he gave me with MSU football through the 90s.
Jackie, on the other hand, depite his last 3 lousy years, is the ONLY reason MSU has ANY football accomplishments whatsoever in the modern era of college football. Having to try and win in football (the kingpin college sport) in the toughest conference in America at a school with meager resources and a losing tradition, the KANG managed 7+ win seasons in 7 out of his first 10 years including 6 bowl trips and an SEC West title and having us in the lead with 6 minutes to go in the SEC championship game against the eventual National Champion Tennessee. Jackie Sherrill is the reason I care about MSU football today and was the one guy that showed the typical downtrodden MSU fan that we didn't have to just accept losing in football every year (minus the fluke once per decade bowl season). Jackie definitely accomplished a lot given the state of the program he had to deal with. If he had retired after the Snow Bowl win, he would still probably be revered at MSU in the same manner as the Bear at Bama. Even with his allowing the program to go in the toilet his last 3 years, I still can't forget all the fun he gave me with MSU football through the 90s.
I give Polk a pass and here's why:
He should not have been brought back in the first place, and even though he requested/demanded it, our AD should have put his foot down and said no. There was no reason to bring him back that's logical other than it was convenient. We knew what we were getting with Polk, and we knew that he wouldn't be here more than 10 years or so at his age even then. We also should have known that it was highly unlikely that he would have been able to duplicate his success and enthusiasm (in the 80's) from the first go around. Heck, the fact that he tried to retire in 92 and took a hiatus from baseball in 97 should have been a red flag. Plus, his rambling about the NCAA just weren't funny anymore. We should have known that he was going to use us as a platform in his battle against the NCAA, as he did during his first tenure. All of these were things that were KNOWN.
LT gave into Polk for some reason, and it has set our baseball program 10 years back- counting from the time we hired Polk to the time I estimate it will take for us to rebuild completely.
With JWS, I don't blame him for wanting to go on and try to rebuild the football program. The man is a competitor, he is not programmed to quit, no matter what is going on. LT should have pulled the plug after 2002 because it was obvious to anyone with brain stem function that he couldn't turn it around. JWS needed someone to tell him that though, and instead we had to suffer through another year of "football" in which the highlight was Jack Cristal saying that the drive of the game was the "Drive home to Tupelo". Not to mention all the other crap.
So, in short, I despise neither Polk nor JWS, but I do despise LT.
He should not have been brought back in the first place, and even though he requested/demanded it, our AD should have put his foot down and said no. There was no reason to bring him back that's logical other than it was convenient. We knew what we were getting with Polk, and we knew that he wouldn't be here more than 10 years or so at his age even then. We also should have known that it was highly unlikely that he would have been able to duplicate his success and enthusiasm (in the 80's) from the first go around. Heck, the fact that he tried to retire in 92 and took a hiatus from baseball in 97 should have been a red flag. Plus, his rambling about the NCAA just weren't funny anymore. We should have known that he was going to use us as a platform in his battle against the NCAA, as he did during his first tenure. All of these were things that were KNOWN.
LT gave into Polk for some reason, and it has set our baseball program 10 years back- counting from the time we hired Polk to the time I estimate it will take for us to rebuild completely.
With JWS, I don't blame him for wanting to go on and try to rebuild the football program. The man is a competitor, he is not programmed to quit, no matter what is going on. LT should have pulled the plug after 2002 because it was obvious to anyone with brain stem function that he couldn't turn it around. JWS needed someone to tell him that though, and instead we had to suffer through another year of "football" in which the highlight was Jack Cristal saying that the drive of the game was the "Drive home to Tupelo". Not to mention all the other crap.
So, in short, I despise neither Polk nor JWS, but I do despise LT.
It's hard to hold a grudge against a guy who put State football on the map as an SEC contender and nationally recognized program. Yes he stunk it up bad the last 3 years but I would rather have his 13 years including the last 3 than the 5 year tenure of Rockey Felker. The only reason Rockey isn't villified like Jackie is that he was a "nice guy". Tech and 10 anyone? And as far as Polk goes, I sincerely feel like he is unstable. You couldn't orchestrate an undoing of a reputation like he is doing to himself. He may snap before year's end. I'm not saying he is going to go postal on the athletic department when/if Raffo doesn't get the job but it will be interesting to see how he reacts.
is that Felker recruited the team and set the stage for Sherrill's first two bowl seasons. And Tech and 10 wasn't nearly as bad as the 2003 season (and it wasn't preceded by back to back 3-8 seasons). Sherrill left our program in a lot worse shape than it was ever in under Felker (or any other MSU coach since the 1960s).
*******. He did win those first couple of years with Rockey's recruits, then he proved he could win with his own. But as bad as those last 3 years were, if that was our punishment for the the most success Mississippi State will probably ever enjoy in football then I'll take it.
hire a top-notched, seasoned head coach in baseball. Sherrill on the other hand left the program in such bad shape we had to take a flyer on a guy with ZERO head coaching experience. Baseball fans will expect to have us in a Regional next year. In football we were happy to beat OM Croom's first year. The only way the two departures would be comparable is if Sherrill had retired after 2001 and not left us on probation.
but the original post was who will go out as the "most despised" between Polk and Sherrill. I don't despise Sherrill at all. He took us places we may not see for a long long time if ever. So I don't despise him. I'm thrilled at the tradition and prominence Polk has gained for us and I will always hold what he has done for our university in the highest regard. But he seems to have lost his mind.
The point remains. Expectations for the next baseball coach will be vastly different than Croom's first year.
That is correct and we also had a zero search when Ron was rehired. We will pay for the laziness of the outgoing AD for a long time and it isn't over yet. I disagree that Ron forced LT to rehire him. LT took his usual easy way out and went right back to Ron without going anywhere else. It was the same reason Jackie was hired. LT really din't want Jackie and offered the job first to Ray Perkins but Perkins told him we'd have to upgrade facilities and pay our coaches more. LT wasn't going to do it. While the alumni was revolting, LT called Alan Jones , the former assistant AD to Sherrill and he got them back to Jackie. Dr. Z was in a corner with many folks wanting Bobby Collins, so he agreed to hire Jackie and called the money boys to put up enough money to satisfy the coaches salaries and then paid a lot of Jacie's salary from the deal with the Foundation and some of the Telsouth deal. We are and always have been our own worst enemy, not UM. They just sit back and laugh at our stupidity and lack of leadership and vision.
TR is right. Croom a mediocre coach at best took over the worst program in the best conference.
I will ALWAYS despise JWS for what he did to the program, but more for not quitting after 2002.
Polk sucks but at least he's had a little success in his latter years.
I will ALWAYS despise JWS for what he did to the program, but more for not quitting after 2002.
Polk sucks but at least he's had a little success in his latter years.
his last year before "retirement" winning a home regional over Washington. Patty Mac took us to the CWS the next year in '98 where we had to go out and win the Texas A&M regional. </p>
M
myway14
Guest
"Dr. Z was in a corner with many folks wanting Bobby Collins, so he agreed to hire Jackie and called the money boys to put up enough money to satisfy the coaches "
Having talked one on one with Don Zacharias, I can tell you he was in no corner. LT did not want to hire JWS, but Don did. It was Dr. Zacharias who called the NCAA who told him they had NOTHING on JWS. They still don't btw. It was amazingly easy to talk one on one with Dr. Zacharias, with JWS, and yes even with LT. Facts were easy to come by. Don't know where all these things come from.
Having talked one on one with Don Zacharias, I can tell you he was in no corner. LT did not want to hire JWS, but Don did. It was Dr. Zacharias who called the NCAA who told him they had NOTHING on JWS. They still don't btw. It was amazingly easy to talk one on one with Dr. Zacharias, with JWS, and yes even with LT. Facts were easy to come by. Don't know where all these things come from.
Doug, I have no idea what Dr. Z told you but he had snubbed Jackie because of the NCAA scare when they offered the deal to Perkins and then Perkins made some logical requests such as paying assistant coaches more and upgrading our facilities. The Sherrill situation evolved after Ray told them what they needed to hear and that is when Dr. Z called the NCAA. Now, I got that straight from Sherrill's ex assistant AD who now lives in Biloxi , Ray, and Jackie. In fact, Jackie's people were mad as hell when he didn't get the first offer. Now, if you don't believe that, call Alan in Biloxi where he works now and he will tell you. LT tried his usual cheap way of doing things and had no idea what it took to get MSU to another level. Even, Ray and Jackie had enough sense to talk to Rockey and he told them the same thing. We have suffered from lack of vision and pure laziness for decades. If it weren't for Portera, you'd have wallowed in mediocrity in basketball as well as Reboul would have been your coach and another disaster like the Polk rehiring and renewing of Fannings contract would have happened. Dr. Z was better than some President's we have had but he was almost as naive as Lee. A group of us went to meet with him about how our basketball and football teams were doomed to failure without change and he brought in Bryce Griffis to the meeting and the excuse was "we can't compete, we don't have enough money". I knew right then that we were in trouble. Money is important but if it is all about money, then how do we compete in men's basketball? We have people at MSU who have been brainwashed to believe we can't win, and that is sad. Hopefully Greg Byrne can help make people understand that it takes money, but more so, more people have to feel a part of the process.
But they are both egomaniacs who think they earned the right to destroy the programs they built.
Jackie did a masterful job at his destruction job. Good job Jackie.
Polk could have and would have done the same thing if he hadn't had a hissy fit a few weeks ago when his new boss Greg Byrne didn't kiss his *** like the old AD did and so he resigned to show up "the kid". Unfortunately, when "the kid" hires someone other than Raffo, it will be "the kid" who shows up the master.
Jackie did a masterful job at his destruction job. Good job Jackie.
Polk could have and would have done the same thing if he hadn't had a hissy fit a few weeks ago when his new boss Greg Byrne didn't kiss his *** like the old AD did and so he resigned to show up "the kid". Unfortunately, when "the kid" hires someone other than Raffo, it will be "the kid" who shows up the master.
Strong and Fisher, told the media they weren't interested. The fact is we needed to make a splash, and Croom was the splashiest coach on our radar. To be sure, we certainly could've hired a Div 1aa coach, but very few DIa coaches or major assistants were interested.
Hate to inform you TR, Jimbo was never interviewed by LT so that story was another lie that LT put out because he interviewed nobody but Sly.
was that Jimbo was genuinely interested in the MSU job, but he had an agent, and LT didn't want to deal with anyone who had an agent.
I'm guessing that Croom didn't have an agent.
I'll be honest though, I'm not sure that Jimbo would have done a whole lot better than Croom anyway.
I'm guessing that Croom didn't have an agent.
I'll be honest though, I'm not sure that Jimbo would have done a whole lot better than Croom anyway.
Sherrill quit that Croom would be hired. There was nothing resembling a search ever done. There are plenty of things out there to blame Jackie for but having to hire a failed NFL OC to make a damn "splash" ain`t one of them.
Polk didn't build MSU baseball. The fans built MSU baseball. Baseball was important to MSU fans before Polk's arrival. Polk was able to take that interest and support and run with it until he became crazed with saving college baseball.
Beside, Gregory was a much better coach.
Just sayin'
Beside, Gregory was a much better coach.
Just sayin'
Polk did a great job from 1976 till 2000, but he was definitely the right man at the right place at the right time. If he'd been hired by Tennessee, for example, the whole history of SEC baseball would have been different.
But you can't say that Paul Gregory was a better coach. Gregory has 1 CWS season and 0 CWS wins. Polk has 6 CWS seasons and 6 CWS wins (MSU only).
But you can't say that Paul Gregory was a better coach. Gregory has 1 CWS season and 0 CWS wins. Polk has 6 CWS seasons and 6 CWS wins (MSU only).
In terms of comparing CWS appearances, I have also wanted to know more about the regional setup (or district playoffs as they were known then). It appears to me that only the conference champion made the field back when Gregory coached which would have limited his ability to make CWS runs.
If a conference championship were a requirement to even make the postseason, State wouldn't have even had an opportunity to compete for a CWS since 1989.
I am not sure if this was the way it was, but looking at a media guide, it looked to me that a conference championship was the only way to make the postseason. I don't have a media guide in front of me, so I may well be remembering wrong though.
If a conference championship were a requirement to even make the postseason, State wouldn't have even had an opportunity to compete for a CWS since 1989.
I am not sure if this was the way it was, but looking at a media guide, it looked to me that a conference championship was the only way to make the postseason. I don't have a media guide in front of me, so I may well be remembering wrong though.
you can reconcile a national search with the "list list" that all AD's supposedly keep of who they would like to hire should a position come open. It seems to me that the notion of a national search really flies in the face of a call to the #1 person on the list who says "yes."
To be honest, I like the list method better than the national search, assuming the list maker isn't selling us short.
To be honest, I like the list method better than the national search, assuming the list maker isn't selling us short.
G
Goat Holder
Guest
100% the opposite. LT went looking for Ron Polk. That's straight from the horse's mouth. I agree that LT should shoulder the big part of the blame.
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