USC & UCLA to B1G by 2024; conferences react; TV contracts thread

doctornick

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Word is also that the Presidents don't want to leave USC and UCLA on an island. To keep them happy, long term, they need to add more West coast teams.

Where is this “word”? I’m being serious because I actually get the distinct impression that USC/UCLA do not want additional west coast schools - they feel that recruiting will improve without other PAC schools “stealing” SoCal recruits which is the hotbed of the West Coast. They also disliked playing constant late night games (especially the “after dark” starting 10pm or later on the east coast) that reduced their presence on highlight shows and during discussion of the sport. Playing in a conference based on the east/central time zones will give them more exposure to the main media markets in the country.

The travel is going to be a bigger issue for Olympic sports but there are ways to lessen that impact but I think they largely accept that it’s the “price to pay” for improving their conference situation.
 

doctornick

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Take Oregon, Stanford, Washington, and be done with it. Screw ND.

Well, they would definitely take an even number of teams for scheduling purposes. But that said... the easier option is take no one. There's no need to expand further unless there is some way the additional schools make the conference as a whole better (or, more important, make more money for everyone). I don't see any of the remaining Pac-12 schools increasing revenue enough to be "worth it" to invite. And, if there were "worth it", they would have already been invited - the economics hasn't changed since the end of June and the Big Ten could have invited Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Colorado, et al at any point if they wanted or the TV execs were pushing for it. Now with a new TV deal signed, there seems like even less reason to invite new teams at this time.
 

91Joe95

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Take Oregon, Stanford, Washington, and be done with it. Screw ND.

If they did would that be the end of the Rose Bowl's PAC 12 tie in? As it stands, while everything is still set, I would think the Rose Bowl execs are getting just a tad bit concerned. I wonder if the Big 10 looks towards ACC country for its next expansion. There's a few teams there with the market and brand value to be intriguing.
 

Nits74

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If they did would that be the end of the Rose Bowl's PAC 12 tie in? As it stands, while everything is still set, I would think the Rose Bowl execs are getting just a tad bit concerned. I wonder if the Big 10 looks towards ACC country for its next expansion. There's a few teams there with the market and brand value to be intriguing.
You make a good point, but my guess is that the tie in with the Rose bowl may be done once 2024 rolls around.
 

Tom McAndrew

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I wonder if the Big 10 looks towards ACC country for its next expansion. There's a few teams there with the market and brand value to be intriguing.

There are some interesting teams in the ACC, but due to the existing Grant Of Rights (GOR) signed by ACC members, none of them are going anywhere unless the league folds, or a university decides to buy out, so to speak, its GOR from the ACC, and the league agrees to it (which they have absolutely reason to do).

 

Fortheglory612

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Nits74

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UNC is so-so in football, but is great in BB, and elite in several of the Olympic sports. If not for the GOR that they've signed with the ACC, I think they'd be very high on the list of both the B1G and the SEC.
I like NC also. He makes a good point about the growth of the state. It's changing demographics and the academics at UNC would make it a desirable fit.
 
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L.A.Lion

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At the moment UCLA has a travel problem that likely can be solved only by an act of the state legislature. Right now UCLA is barred by state law from playing in 22 of the other 49 states and that list includes Indiana, Iowa, and Ohio.
 

psuro

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At the moment UCLA has a travel problem that likely can be solved only by an act of the state legislature. Right now UCLA is barred by state law from playing in 22 of the other 49 states and that list includes Indiana, Iowa, and Ohio.
Because those states are geographically boring as hell?
 
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PSUFBFAN

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At the moment UCLA has a travel problem that likely can be solved only by an act of the state legislature. Right now UCLA is barred by state law from playing in 22 of the other 49 states and that list includes Indiana, Iowa, and Ohio.
Interesting that an anonymous poster on a Penn State message board knows something that could potentially derail the entire B10 expansion deal....that none of the dozens of lawyers and university administrators knew when they were doing their due diligence on the deal. A tip of the cap to you.
 
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NittPicker

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At the moment UCLA has a travel problem that likely can be solved only by an act of the state legislature. Right now UCLA is barred by state law from playing in 22 of the other 49 states and that list includes Indiana, Iowa, and Ohio.
Not exactly. The law bars state-funded travel to certain states. I've read numerous articles about how UCLA athletics could sidestep that restriction.
 
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Because those states are geographically boring as hell?
Nope. Because California says they have anti-LGBTQ laws. Interestingly, none of those states were the homes of any PAC 12 schools until Utah was added in July and Arizona will be added in September, so we get to see how they deal with it before UCLA makes the move.
 

psuro

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Nope. Because California says they have anti-LGBTQ laws. Interestingly, none of those states were the homes of any PAC 12 schools until Utah was added in July and Arizona will be added in September, so we get to see how they deal with it before UCLA makes the move.
Yeah...I know.....
Sassy Red Wine GIF by Married At First Sight
 
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L.A.Lion

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Interesting that an anonymous poster on a Penn State message board knows something that could potentially derail the entire B10 expansion deal....that none of the dozens of lawyers and university administrators knew when they were doing their due diligence on the deal. A tip of the cap to you.

"Entire"? USC is a private university to which the state law does not apply, so I don't know why you've used that word.

Here's the operative language from the 2016 statute:

"(b) A state agency, department, board, authority, or commission, including an agency, department, board, authority, or commission of the University of California, the Board of Regents of the University of California, or the California State University, and the Legislature shall not do either of the following:
(1) Require any of its employees, officers, or members to travel to a state that, after June 26, 2015, has enacted a law that * * *
(2) Approve a request for state-funded or state-sponsored travel to a state that, after June 26, 2015, has enacted a law that * * *"

I've omitted the description of the laws the California legislature didn't like. The statute further requires that the attorney general maintain a list of states with such laws and Indiana, Iowa, and Ohio are on it. There are six exceptions to that subsection, one of which is to "meet contractual obligations incurred before January 1, 2017," which allows UC and Cal State teams to continue to travel to Idaho and Utah, which are also on the list.

Since I'm a attorney practicing in the Los Angeles area and you're not, I'll help you with reading the language in the statute that backs up what I said: "a[] department * * * of the University of California * * * or the California State University * * * shall not * * * require any of its employees to travel to a state" on the AG's list. See that word "department"? Yeah, that includes UC and Cal State athletic departments. I'm sure you get this, but I'll say it any way: coaches and staff are all employees subject to subsection (b)(1).

I also don't know why you'd say "none of the dozens of lawyers and university administrators knew" about that statute. I neither said nor implied such a thing and your non sequitur inference completely misses the likelihood that the responsible officials believed they could address the issue. That they would have confidence in their plan to do so in no way conflicts with what I said: the statute as currently written is a big problem that will require a fix if UCLA is going to send teams to Indiana, Iowa, or Ohio.

Here's a tip of the cap right back atcha for your trenchant powers of observation and incisive insight into both the legal and political landscapes in California.
 
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L.A.Lion

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Not exactly. The law bars state-funded travel to certain states. I've read numerous articles about how UCLA athletics could sidestep that restriction.
Not exactly. The statute bars UC and Cal State from requiring employees to travel to those states in addition to approving requests for "state-funded or state-sponsored travel" to those states. Unless UCLA has already lined up support in the legislature for a fix, the statute as currently written is not a minor problem for them.
 
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L.A.Lion

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Nope. Because California says they have anti-LGBTQ laws. Interestingly, none of those states were the homes of any PAC 12 schools until Utah was added in July and Arizona will be added in September, so we get to see how they deal with it before UCLA makes the move.
There's an exception for contractual obligation existing as of 2017, which would cover UCLA travel to Utah and Arizona as long as UCLA is subject to Pac 12 membership obligations. If UCLA does join the Big Ten, the state will need to do something if they want UCLA to play in a bowl game in Texas, Florida, or Georgia, also on the list.
 
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NittPicker

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Not exactly. The statute bars UC and Cal State from requiring employees to travel to those states in addition to approving requests for "state-funded or state-sponsored travel" to those states. The statute as currently written is not a minor problem for UCLA.
Again, not exactly. It would certainly apply to a professor, for example, who may want to travel to an academic conference on behalf of the university. Of course if they didn't travel on the university's dime then nothing would stop them.

Which bring us to athletics. Are away games truly "state funded" if the expenses are classified as having been paid for with private gifts? And are away games truly "state-sponsored"? It's a matter accounting and definition. As a dumb guy at Penn State once said, "All money is fungible".
 

L.A.Lion

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Again, not exactly. It would certainly apply to a professor, for example, who may want to travel to an academic conference on behalf of the university. Of course if they didn't travel on the university's dime then nothing would stop them.

Which bring us to athletics. Are away games truly "state funded" if the expenses are classified as having been paid for with private gifts? And are away games truly "state-sponsored"? It's a matter accounting and definition. As a dumb guy at Penn State once said, "All money is fungible".
Good luck interpreting travel of a UCLA team comprising student-athletes receiving UC scholarship money, subject to UCLA athetic department rules, wearing UCLA uniforms with the UCLA name and logo that are property of the state, and accompanied by and under the supervision of UCLA employees as not "state-sponsored" travel.
 
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PSUFBFAN

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Oct 7, 2021
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"Entire"? USC is a private university to which the state law does not apply, so I don't know why you've used that word.

Here's the operative language from the 2016 statute:

"(b) A state agency, department, board, authority, or commission, including an agency, department, board, authority, or commission of the University of California, the Board of Regents of the University of California, or the California State University, and the Legislature shall not do either of the following:
(1) Require any of its employees, officers, or members to travel to a state that, after June 26, 2015, has enacted a law that * * *
(2) Approve a request for state-funded or state-sponsored travel to a state that, after June 26, 2015, has enacted a law that * * *"

I've omitted the description of the laws the California legislature didn't like. The statute further requires that the attorney general maintain a list of states with such laws and Indiana, Iowa, and Ohio are on it. There are six exceptions to that subsection, one of which is to "meet contractual obligations incurred before January 1, 2017," which allows UC and Cal State teams to continue to travel to Idaho and Utah, which are also on the list.

Since I'm a attorney practicing in the Los Angeles area and you're not, I'll help you with reading the language in the statute that backs up what I said: "a[] department * * * of the University of California * * * or the California State University * * * shall not * * * require any of its employees to travel to a state" on the AG's list. See that word "department"? Yeah, that includes UC and Cal State athletic departments. I'm sure you get this, but I'll say it any way: coaches and staff are all employees subject to subsection (b)(1).

I also don't know why you'd say "none of the dozens of lawyers and university administrators knew" about that statute. I neither said nor implied such a thing and your non sequitur inference completely misses the likelihood that the responsible officials believed they could address the issue. That they would have confidence in their plan to do so in no way conflicts with what I said: the statute as currently written is a big problem that will require a fix if UCLA is going to send teams to Indiana, Iowa, or Ohio.

Here's a tip of the cap right back atcha for your trenchant powers of observation and incisive insight into both the legal and political landscapes in California.
I'm willing to bet that UCLA travels to their first scheduled away game in Indiana, Iowa, or Ohio.
 
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91Joe95

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"Entire"? USC is a private university to which the state law does not apply, so I don't know why you've used that word.

Here's the operative language from the 2016 statute:

"(b) A state agency, department, board, authority, or commission, including an agency, department, board, authority, or commission of the University of California, the Board of Regents of the University of California, or the California State University, and the Legislature shall not do either of the following:
(1) Require any of its employees, officers, or members to travel to a state that, after June 26, 2015, has enacted a law that * * *
(2) Approve a request for state-funded or state-sponsored travel to a state that, after June 26, 2015, has enacted a law that * * *"

I've omitted the description of the laws the California legislature didn't like. The statute further requires that the attorney general maintain a list of states with such laws and Indiana, Iowa, and Ohio are on it. There are six exceptions to that subsection, one of which is to "meet contractual obligations incurred before January 1, 2017," which allows UC and Cal State teams to continue to travel to Idaho and Utah, which are also on the list.

Since I'm a attorney practicing in the Los Angeles area and you're not, I'll help you with reading the language in the statute that backs up what I said: "a[] department * * * of the University of California * * * or the California State University * * * shall not * * * require any of its employees to travel to a state" on the AG's list. See that word "department"? Yeah, that includes UC and Cal State athletic departments. I'm sure you get this, but I'll say it any way: coaches and staff are all employees subject to subsection (b)(1).

I also don't know why you'd say "none of the dozens of lawyers and university administrators knew" about that statute. I neither said nor implied such a thing and your non sequitur inference completely misses the likelihood that the responsible officials believed they could address the issue. That they would have confidence in their plan to do so in no way conflicts with what I said: the statute as currently written is a big problem that will require a fix if UCLA is going to send teams to Indiana, Iowa, or Ohio.

Here's a tip of the cap right back atcha for your trenchant powers of observation and incisive insight into both the legal and political landscapes in California.

Eh, just stick the governor on the plane. Problem solved.
 

L.A.Lion

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Oct 28, 2021
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I'm willing to bet that UCLA travels to their first scheduled away game in Indiana, Iowa, or Ohio.

That the UC regents and the state legislature might implement a fix in the next 24 months is utterly irrelevant to what I said: they have a statutory problem today.

When they compare UCLA's projected slice of $7 billion against whatever projections of harm to Cal's ability to repay its stadium renovation debt they come up with and add the strong likelihood that USC will move with or without UCLA, they'll likely have ample motivation to expeditiously implement a fix.
 
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