Warren Buffet wisdom making the rounds

Boom Boom

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Actually his right hand guy Munger.


Reminds me of my poker days. I wasn't there to make money off the pros, I was there to make money off the suckers. Lots of dumb money on Wall Street these days. What's the best way to fleece the suckers, Pack?

Side note: also been reading lately that passive Vanguard-type index money has become the tail that wags the dog. It invests so much in stock like Apple that it is driving it higher in a self-fulfilling prophecy way. Been thinking on the ramifications. What say the Pack?
 
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BoDawg.sixpack

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Trickle down is real, but you have to be a committed disciplined investor. Not smart, not particularly intelligent. Just committed and disciplined. The American markets have constantly shown us that every pullback is a buy opportunity.
 

BirdPuppy

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Regarding the consequences of passive investing, look into Mike Green. He lays out the case on passive investing ruining markets better than anyone else. I agree with him 100%; passive funds are mindless investors with zero regard for fundamentals.

Something like 50% of every dollar invested in the S&P500 is coming from a passive fund; of those dollars, 30-35% go towards the mag 7. Pulling these numbers from memory so don’t quote me. All sorts of ramifications that I don’t have the time to lay out here, but he has plenty of material you can find online.
 
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GloryDawg

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I would just wait and keep a much cash on hand as possible. It is going to bust. Then there will be a lot of bargains.
 
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horshack.sixpack

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Oct 30, 2012
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Actually his right hand guy Munger.


Reminds me of my poker days. I wasn't there to make money off the pros, I was there to make money off the suckers. Lots of dumb money on Wall Street these days. What's the best way to fleece the suckers, Pack?

Side note: also been reading lately that passive Vanguard-type index money has become the tail that wags the dog. It invests so much in stock like Apple that it is driving it higher in a self-fulfilling prophecy way. Been thinking on the ramifications. What say the Pack?
Toss in the 75% of trade volume being driven by algorithms and it is what keeps me buying EFTs and stocks that are high quality companies with decent dividends.
 

horshack.sixpack

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Oct 30, 2012
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Regarding the consequences of passive investing, look into Mike Green. He lays out the case on passive investing ruining markets better than anyone else. I agree with him 100%; passive funds are mindless investors with zero regard for fundamentals.

Something like 50% of every dollar invested in the S&P500 is coming from a passive fund; of those dollars, 30-35% go towards the mag 7. Pulling these numbers from memory so don’t quote me. All sorts of ramifications that I don’t have the time to lay out here, but he has plenty of material you can find online.
One caveat to this is that there are criteria for being in the S&P 500 that makes that group fluid. I could argue that an investment into an S&P 500 ETF is not mindless, it is just a choice to accept the S&P 500 criteria as a good enough reason to own the stock. A 500 ETF won't command any large fees from RIA's because it can automatically rebalance and reallocate funds, however, go take a look at how many RIAs beat the S&P 500 over any 10 year period, particularly once you include the fees.
 

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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Regarding the consequences of passive investing, look into Mike Green. He lays out the case on passive investing ruining markets better than anyone else. I agree with him 100%; passive funds are mindless investors with zero regard for fundamentals.

Something like 50% of every dollar invested in the S&P500 is coming from a passive fund; of those dollars, 30-35% go towards the mag 7. Pulling these numbers from memory so don’t quote me. All sorts of ramifications that I don’t have the time to lay out here, but he has plenty of material you can find online.
I have read that as long as you have about 10% of funds being actively invested, you get good enough price discovery that it's ok for 90% of the funds to be passive. I didn't read at all into the methodology they used to determine this. And obviously there were plenty of computer models that missed the implications repeatedly tranching the same debt multiple times. But it doesn't seem implausible on its face. My main question is out of the active money, how much of it is trying to anticipate the moves of the passive money, which I think would create some positive feedback loops.
 

Hot Rock

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Jan 2, 2010
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Buy low and sell high... that right?

On a somewhat more serious note" Just figure whatever company is in the dog house with some group that screams boycott and watch it drop like rock. Pay attention to the real numbers and buy like hell when it drops below a number that makes sense. Budweiser Stocks were a damn good investment a few months ago.

Look at the graph: When did that ad campaign start?

1709150474920.png
 

Crazy Cotton

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Aug 26, 2012
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Buy low and sell high... that right?

On a somewhat more serious note" Just figure whatever company is in the dog house with some group that screams boycott and watch it drop like rock. Pay attention to the real numbers and buy like hell when it drops below a number that makes sense. Budweiser Stocks were a damn good investment a few months ago.

Look at the graph: When did that ad campaign start?

View attachment 534550
That's why I always buy Target during Pride month
1709152182674.png
 

Perd Hapley

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Sep 30, 2022
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Regarding the consequences of passive investing, look into Mike Green. He lays out the case on passive investing ruining markets better than anyone else. I agree with him 100%; passive funds are mindless investors with zero regard for fundamentals.

Something like 50% of every dollar invested in the S&P500 is coming from a passive fund; of those dollars, 30-35% go towards the mag 7. Pulling these numbers from memory so don’t quote me. All sorts of ramifications that I don’t have the time to lay out here, but he has plenty of material you can find online.
I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with passive investing. Its fine for those who are content to get their 10-12% CAGR with little risk and fees involved. Most all the big index funds from Vanguard, Fidelity, TDA, etc. are going to be strict in their selection criteria and rebalance requirements to maintain a quality group of companies with good metrics across the board. In Buffett’s analogy, the index fund is probably like the guy who has a huge stack and just sits at the blackjack or roulette table forever….making continuous small bets and assuring themselves they won’t possibly win more than $100-$200, but also assuring they won’t lose anything.

However, for those seeking more opportunity, the biggest thing to know is that insitutional money is smart money….but it is slow money. And like 80% of the market is institutional money. The reasoning is pretty simple….the big brokerages all have so much pricing power, that in their own self-interest they have to act with restraint to keep from creating a panic or a fever around any given asset. Meta has a bad quarter, well, Fidelity can’t just dump 50% of their Meta instantaneously. There’s no buyer at that volume unless they are willing to lose their asś on the trade. So they have to very slowly and gradually unwind their position. The same is also true in reverse. Amazon reports an earnings beat, they can’t go all-in without paying a heavy premium. So they have to slowly increase their position by small, frequent trades.

Individual investors can take advantage of this by being more like Buffett. You don’t have to be an expert on the whole market or know the ins and outs of every sector. Pick 3-5 companies that both interest you and that you know well. 17 sector diversity and all that….overrrated. Find out how much the share of the company is actually worth. 17 “buying the dip” and other nonsense. If the real, underlying metrics say the shafe is worth $X, you see it’s price at only 50-60% of X, buy the damn stock. Then hold the stock, keep monitoring its fundamentals, readjust it’s value as the inputs change, sell if the price gets way above X, buy back in if it drops well below X, rinse and repeat.

That’s how individual investors take advantage of the smart, slow money. By moving faster. Entire positions can be liquidated or recreated as the institutional money pushes a share price up or down. The trick is knowing the actual value, not just trying to predict the future human behavior based on trends. Very few people really want to do that, because its boring. But it works, carries low risk if done correctly, and can yield much bigger returns than passive funds.
 
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Boom Boom

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I disagreed then agreed, so I'm gonna quibble.
I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with passive investing.
the above wasnt about it being inherently wrong, but more that its become so fashionable that its become a price driver rather than a price follower, which from below i think we agree on.
Its fine for those who are content to get their 10-12% CAGR with little risk and fees involved. Most all the big index funds from Vanguard, Fidelity, TDA, etc. are going to be strict in their selection criteria and rebalance requirements to maintain a quality group of companies with good metrics across the board. In Buffett’s analogy, the index fund is probably like the guy who has a huge stack and just sits at the blackjack or roulette table forever….making continuous small bets and assuring themselves they won’t possibly win more than $100-$200, but also assuring they won’t lose anything.
yes, but also for those without the time to investigate, or the fortitutde to stick to it, etc. Fire and forget is nice. Also, it's making a time value of money play combined with the worth of the general economy. This is fine for the young or middle age investor: if stocks collapse its because everything collapsed, and if that happens your middling 401k is the least of your concerns. For the retiree or nearly so, not so much. Too many assume stocks will always go up. In reality, stagnation of national (and global) economies is a common occurrence over a decade or two time spans. I'm particularly amazed by those who are convinced economic decline is imminent but stocks will go up like always.
However, for those seeking more opportunity, the biggest thing to know is that insitutional money is smart money….but it is slow money. And like 80% of the market is institutional money. The reasoning is pretty simple….the big brokerages all have so much pricing power, that in their own self-interest they have to act with restraint to keep from creating a panic or a fever around any given asset. Meta has a bad quarter, well, Fidelity can’t just dump 50% of their Meta instantaneously. There’s no buyer at that volume unless they are willing to lose their asś on the trade. So they have to very slowly and gradually unwind their position. The same is also true in reverse. Amazon reports an earnings beat, they can’t go all-in without paying a heavy premium. So they have to slowly increase their position by small, frequent trades.
i think the issue is the passive investor is becoming that buyer that can take that volume. The risk to the passive investor is they may become the ones holding the bag in the next downturn. Those decent annual returns wont look good after factoring in a giant loss due to holding companies that collapsed. The institutional investor would be out well before the stock is delisted. The passive investor will be the one with no one to sell to, to unwind.
Individual investors can take advantage of this by being more like Buffett. You don’t have to be an expert on the whole market or know the ins and outs of every sector. Pick 3-5 companies that both interest you and that you know well. 17 sector diversity and all that….overrrated. Find out how much the share of the company is actually worth. 17 “buying the dip” and other nonsense. If the real, underlying metrics say the shafe is worth $X, you see it’s price at only 50-60% of X, buy the damn stock. Then hold the stock, keep monitoring its fundamentals, readjust it’s value as the inputs change, sell if the price gets way above X, buy back in if it drops well below X, rinse and repeat.
the quibble here is the price isnt X, its X plus Y, where Y is the general overpriced market. You cant buy anything priced below its worth anymore, you can just buy things relatively priced low. Works out the same, until it doesnt.
That’s how individual investors take advantage of the smart, slow money. By moving faster. Entire positions can be liquidated or recreated as the institutional money pushes a share price up or down. The trick is knowing the actual value, not just trying to predict the future human behavior based on trends. Very few people really want to do that, because its boring. But it works, carries low risk if done correctly, and can yield much bigger returns than passive funds.
The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. But I agree.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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Dec 15, 2017
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Very little time to draw nasty images on stock charts these days... But I do believe the old GameStop cóck and balls pattern is playing out just as I predicted a couple of years ago... Look for the GME fanboys to come out of the woodworks ah la the bitcoin bros later this year or next when GME starts to put in that right nut part of the pattern...
Screen Shot 2024-02-29 at 11.56.04 AM.png
 

Perd Hapley

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Sep 30, 2022
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i think the issue is the passive investor is becoming that buyer that can take that volume. The risk to the passive investor is they may become the ones holding the bag in the next downturn. Those decent annual returns wont look good after factoring in a giant loss due to holding companies that collapsed. The institutional investor would be out well before the stock is delisted. The passive investor will be the one with no one to sell to, to unwind.
I don’t see how this is the case at all. The passive investor has his risk spread out too wide to take advantage of the institutional money. He IS the institutional money. Now, forget the passive investor. If you or me decides we want to sell $100k of Tesla in a single trade, we can do so at the market price. It could be 10-20% of our entire portfolio….doesn’t matter….drop in the bucket. We’re out like that. But if Fidelity wants to instantly sell $5 billion of Tesla (representing the same percentage of their portfolio as the $100k would ours), they have no buyer….unless its another brokerage….who is absolutely NOT doing that deal ever at the market price. They are only taking on that volume if they get a huge discount. So, it can’t happen. Even if Fidelity tries to chop up the $5 billion into 1,000 smaller trades, the market is still going to react in real time to that volume of shares….and its going to result in huge and instantaneous downward price pressure.

Thus, they have to slowly and deliberately unwind, whereas the active individual investor with only a few small holdings can move at light speed in comparison. This also serves as a huge check on the system to prevent brokerages from acting unethically or irresponsibly….and works far better than any SEC regulation ever could.

the quibble here is the price isnt X, its X plus Y, where Y is the general overpriced market. You cant buy anything priced below its worth anymore, you can just buy things relatively priced low. Works out the same, until it doesnt.

There are tons of companies you can buy for lower than their worth….they’re much easier to find in a market downturn, but they are there. Do you think NVIDIA’s true intrinsic value has changed at all in the past 2-3 years? It absolutely has not….their company strategy, financials, and earnings potential were all basically the same as today. Yet 2-3 years ago, the market was still overpriced as all get out….yet there NVIDIA stock was selling for 25% of what it is right now. There are plenty of other companies in that boat right now. They don’t have glowing red signs pointing them out. But they are there.

ETA: I don’t think passive index fund type investors is what Buffett and Munger were referring to at all when discussing the “casino-like” nature of the stock market in 2024. Those are the most risk averse investors there are. So it’s interesting to me that the discussion started in your OP that I think should center around the hysteria stocks like GME and others has somehow shifted to the polar opposite end of the spectrum.
 
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