Was Kumar Rocker Injured in 2021?

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I remember how dominate he was by the end of his freshman year and really most of his his college career and then he fell off a bit at the end of that last season and his last game in college was a disaster as we all know.

The Mets drafted him in the first round but wouldn't sign him because of injury concerns so he played independent league in 2022 and the Rangers drafted him #3 overall in 22', but he looked crappy in rookie ball in 22' and had a 3.86 era in A ball in 6 games to start 23' before getting TJ and seeming like a potential bust.

Well that 17er is back. Just made his AAA debut and pitched five scoreless innings, gave up 1 hit, struck out 10, and walked 0. In 5 games in AA and AAA since he came back from TJ he's only given up 6 hits in 24-2/3 innings, has a 0.36 ERA, has struck out 39, and walked 3. The 13-1 k/bb ratio is ridiculous in today's game.


I don't remember exactly, but did Corbin pitch him on short rest in that CWS? Was he possibly already injured or is that game in the finals where something happened. I know at the time, it felt like Leiter was a scarier matchup than Rocker so he might have already been going downhill.

We were talking about Skenes and Strasburg a while back being the most heralded college pitchers ever. But after that 19k no hitter Rocker threw in the Supers his freshman year it certainly felt like he might have become one of the greatest, but he never quite held that elite of the elite form after... Maybe it was just injuries and he should have had surgery earlier, but that dude is apparently topped out at 99.9 last night and is throwing his wipeout slider wherever he wants.

Secretly hope he comes out and says Corbin didn't protect his arm and over pitched him in college, cause 17 Corbin and Vandy.

 

[8dog]

He threw on just 4 full days rest after 111 pitches his previous outing.

 

[Bulldog45]

If I recall correctly Corbin allowed him and Leiter to go late into games throwing a bunch of pitches early in the season and some were questioning the wisdom of that. Like I said if I am remembering correctly.

 

[Braves Dawg]

He had some mysterious surgery on his right arm after going undrafted by the Met's in 2021.

 

[johnson86-1]

I remember how dominate he was by the end of his freshman year and really most of his his college career and then he fell off a bit at the end of that last season and his last game in college was a disaster as we all know.

The Mets drafted him in the first round but wouldn't sign him because of injury concerns so he played independent league in 2022 and the Rangers drafted him #3 overall in 22', but he looked crappy in rookie ball in 22' and had a 3.86 era in A ball in 6 games to start 23' before getting TJ and seeming like a potential bust.

Well that 17er is back. Just made his AAA debut and pitched five scoreless innings, gave up 1 hit, struck out 10, and walked 0. In 5 games in AA and AAA since he came back from TJ he's only given up 6 hits in 24-2/3 innings, has a 0.36 ERA, has struck out 39, and walked 3. The 13-1 k/bb ratio is ridiculous in today's game.


I don't remember exactly, but did Corbin pitch him on short rest in that CWS? Was he possibly already injured or is that game in the finals where something happened. I know at the time, it felt like Leiter was a scarier matchup than Rocker so he might have already been going downhill.

We were talking about Skenes and Strasburg a while back being the most heralded college pitchers ever. But after that 19k no hitter Rocker threw in the Supers his freshman year it certainly felt like he might have become one of the greatest, but he never quite held that elite of the elite form after... Maybe it was just injuries and he should have had surgery earlier, but that dude is apparently topping out at 99 now and throwing his wipeout slider where he wants.

Secretly hope he comes out and says Corbin didn't protect his arm and over pitched him in college, cause 17 Corbin and Vandy.

I think he definitely had some wear and tear. If I remember correctly, his agent had him skip the league physical, which meant the Mets didn't even have to offer whatever percentage of slot to get a compensatory draft pick? So I think they knew there were issues/concerns.

I vaguely remember the rocker camp claiming the mets's concern dealt with a congenital issue that was known by the mets before they drafted him and that it was bad faith to not offer him, but I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that.

Also, semi-related to not getting a good offer to sign, whatever happened to the pitcher taken by the Braves that signed a long term deal with a Japanese team? How has that worked out for him?

ETA: Carter Stewart. Looks like he's going to make at least $17M playing in Japan for 8 years if their contracts are guaranteed. Guess he took a lot of risk off the table going to Japan and will still have the option of trying to jump to MLB at age 26 if he wants.

"On July 26, 2023, Stewart earned his first NPB win after tossing six scoreless innings in a 7–1 victory over the Orix Buffaloes.[17] In 2023, he appeared in 14 games for the Hawks, posting a 3–6 win–loss record, 3.38 ERA, and 67 strikeouts across 77+1⁄3 innings. Stewart also pitched as a starter in Game 1 of the first stage of the 2023 Pacific League Climax Series.[18]

On December 15, 2023, Stewart signed a two–year, $10 million contract extension with the Hawks."

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

He had some mysterious surgery on his right arm after going undrafted by the Met's in 2021.

It certainly seems like the Rangers knew he just needed TJ. To use a #3 overall pick (well below slot bonus if I remember though) on a guy with those questions, they must have figured something out during their diligence.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You're right on. To sum it up, he was just overused and his fundamentals were slipping. I think it's dang near unavoidable these days.

All you have to do is watch how free his arm was in 2019 against us, and how stiff and controlled he was in 2021. Arm deceleration is what they call it, I guess. Landon Sims had a big problem with it too, but that just shows how good both of them were, that they could be elite pitchers with bad fundamentals.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

the first stage of the 2023 Pacific League Climax Series.

Is this on Cinemax or PPV?

 

[Perd Hapley]

I don’t know any of the answers, but everybody drink whenever someone says “travel ball”****

Seriously though, I think its dumb that people are acting like the Mets were worried about TJ with Rocker. Hell, they drafted JT Ginn while he was actively recovering from the TJ surgery….and wasn’t even throwing again yet. And they gave him an even bigger signing bonus than the first round slot value was when he got drafted by the Dodgers the first time with no known issues. Landon Sims still went first round right after TJ. MLB teams don’t care about TJ at all anymore. It’s like WNBA franchises knowing they are going to probably potentially lose a player for an extended period when she gets pregnant…its practically expected at this point. Mets were worried about something potentially more serious health wise, and now they look pretty dumb for it.

Rocker also pitched 60 something innings in the independent league and who knows how many bullpen sessions between leaving Vandy and having the surgery. He might have had some wear and minor pain, but I think he was still very effective for almost all of 2021. Believe it was the short rest after a long outing that got him more than anything in the CG.

 

[patdog]

Also, semi-related to not getting a good offer to sign, whatever happened to the pitcher taken by the Braves that signed a long term deal with a Japanese team? How has that worked out for him?

Looks like he's made a lot of money for very little production. Made Japan major league last year, went 4-10 with 3.38 ERA and signed a new 2-year, $10,000,000 contract.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don’t know any of the answers, but everybody drink whenever someone says “travel ball”****

Seriously though, I think its dumb that people are acting like the Mets were worried about TJ with Rocker. Hell, they drafted JT Ginn while he was actively recovering from the TJ surgery….and wasn’t even throwing again yet. And they gave him an even bigger signing bonus than the first round slot value was when he got drafted by the Dodgers the first time with no known issues. Landon Sims still went first round right after TJ. MLB teams don’t care about TJ at all anymore. It’s like WNBA franchises knowing they are going to probably potentially lose a player for an extended period when she gets pregnant…its practically expected at this point. Mets were worried about something potentially more serious health wise, and now they look pretty dumb for it.

Rocker also pitched 60 something innings in the independent league and who knows how many bullpen sessions between leaving Vandy and having the surgery. He might have had some wear and minor pain, but I think he was still very effective for almost all of 2021. Believe it was the short rest after a long outing that got him more than anything in the CG.

If you've proven yourself to be dominant like Rocker, Ginn and Sims, I tend to agree.

It's not like that for everybody, though.

 

[patdog]

Back to original question. Looks like he's pitched a total of 125 innings since that CWS blowout and had arm surgery of some kind that summer. So yeah, I think pretty clear he was injured. Don't think Corbin was really overusing him like some said. He averaged 6 innings per start in 2021.

 

[HRMSU]

He should be up with the Rangers next year.....very slight chance he gets a start late this year but possible since season is practically over and he's been mowing them down in the minors.

Leiter needs to get his crap together. Not a terrible outing last night for the Rangers but it was against the woeful White Sox. It seems like Leiter presses too much trying to be perfect or live up to the hype. If he ever gets comfortable look out.

I think/hope at some point next year you'll see DeGrom, Leiter and Rocker all in the rotation for the Rangers.

 

[HuntDawg]

Back to original question. Looks like he's pitched a total of 125 innings since that CWS blowout and had arm surgery of some kind that summer. So yeah, I think pretty clear he was injured. Don't think Corbin was really overusing him like some said. He averaged 6 innings per start in 2021.

this ^ go look at the game logs from his time in Vandy. He wasnt over-used... He actually never reached 100 pitches in about 60-70% of his starts at Vandy.. and was only once pushed to an eye popping number. (130 for a no-hitter against duke)

His arm like many others just broke down on him. He looks to be healthy again and doing well.

 

[Perd Hapley]

If you've proven yourself to be dominant like Rocker, Ginn and Sims, I tend to agree.

It's not like that for everybody, though.

Was Ginn really ever that dominant? I mean he had some good outings in the first half of 2019….none of which were very long outings. But he was never close to what Rocker, Leiter, and Sims were.

 

[Perd Hapley]

It certainly seems like the Rangers knew he just needed TJ. To use a #3 overall pick (well below slot bonus if I remember though) on a guy with those questions, they must have figured something out during their diligence.

It was below slot, but not that far below as far as pick position. Rocker was #3 pick and signed for $5.2 million, which was about the slot value of the #9 pick. Had he not signed with Rangers, he’d have still gotten that same money just a few picks later.

He also got about $500k more than the Mets’ slot value was when they took him #10 in 2021….so it is safe to say they had no concerns at all about his health when they drafted him.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Was Ginn really ever that dominant? I mean he had some good outings in the first half of 2019….none of which were very long outings. But he was never close to what Rocker, Leiter, and Sims were.

He was drafted in what, the first or second round out of high school? Yeah he was known.

 

[johnson86-1]

Looks like he's made a lot of money for very little production. Made Japan major league last year, went 4-10 with 3.38 ERA and signed a new 2-year, $10,000,000 contract.

Yea, I thought that too although the super reliable Wikipedia stats I got were a little different from yours.

14 games but a "3–6 win–loss record, 3.38 ERA, and 67 strikeouts across 77+1⁄3 innings"

But I don't know how good $5M per year is for a Japanese pitcher or how good a 3.38 ERA is or how good 5.5 innings per appearance is. Looks like that ERA would be around the 14th in the MLB for starters in 2023?

 

[Perd Hapley]

He was drafted in what, the first or second round out of high school? Yeah he was known.

I know that he was known. I’m just saying the body of work in college was nowhere close to Rocker / Sims or even Mayer at Ole Miss a few years ago, so I don’t think that factored at all into the decision to draft him and pay him in spite of the recent surgery. He actually got a bigger bonus offer while hurt than he did straight out of high school with no injury.

An elite talent isn’t any more or less likely to successfully recover from TJ. These guys are getting drafted based on their measurables and production when healthy….that’s all there is to it unless there’s another non-TJ related health concern that could end their career. TJ is simply a known risk that all teams have to assume with everyone these days.

 

[onewoof]

Kumar has his groove back and will be called up soon. I honestly believe handing him his first loss ever in the post season like we did messed him up a little in addition to the arm injury he had.

 

[QuadrupleOption]

He was definitely not his normal self when he faced us in game 2 and I think it was obvious. I think he was injured or his arm was dead and I think that the Vandy coaching staff used him up and didn't care about his health.

When you look at how we shut down JT Ginn like two years in a row the difference is pretty stark. As much as I like to win, I'd hate to do it at the cost of a player's ability to make a living in the future.

 

[pseudonym]

He just ran into a buzzsaw his last collegiate outing.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

An elite talent isn’t any more or less likely to successfully recover from TJ. These guys are getting drafted based on their measurables and production when healthy….that’s all there is to it unless there’s another non-TJ related health concern that could end their career. TJ is simply a known risk that all teams have to assume with everyone these days.

I didn't say they would. But MLB teams are much more likely to take a chance on them, thus the whole premise of why they get taken, no matter if injured.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

We broke him

 

[MSUDOG24]

He just ran into a buzzsaw his last collegiate outing.

Now there's the spirit!

 

[MStateDawg]

Was Ginn really ever that dominant? I mean he had some good outings in the first half of 2019….none of which were very long outings. But he was never close to what Rocker, Leiter, and Sims were.

Ginn was great for a true freshman. That start he had in Omaha vs Louisville was as good or better than any CWS start for a State pitcher not named Will Bednar.

Compare Ginn to Jurrangelo Cijntje

True Freshman:
Ginn: 8-4 in 17 starts with a 3.13 ERA. 105 strikeouts vs 19 walks
Loo: 3-5 in 13 starts with an 8.10 ERA. 63 strikeouts vs 34 walks

Sophomore:
Loo: 8-2 in 16 starts with a 3.67 ERA. 113 strikeouts vs 30 walks
Ginn: lost to injury


Ginn was as good or better as a freshman than Loo was as a sophomore. Ginn could have had a special sophomore season if he would have stayed healthy.

 

[HotMop]

I saw him pitch at AA 3 weeks ago. He looked good.

 

[onewoof]

Kumar rocks Triple-A debut with career-high 10 strikeouts

There was nothing rocky about Kumar Rocker's introduction to Triple-A. In fact, the Rangers' top pitching prospect worked his deepest outing of the 2024 campaign in his Round Rock debut. Rocker -- Texas' 2022 first-rounder, who had a delayed start to his second pro season as he rehabbed from Tommy

www.mlb.com

 

[Podgy]

I don't remember exactly, but did Corbin pitch him on short rest in that CWS?

I remember it vividly. Corbin made the right call to have him pitch against us.