Watched a gas-throwing 10-year old throw 116 pitches over 2 days this weekend...

[Smoked Toag]

...against my team both times. This kid has a future. Filled up the strike zone. Won the championship. His dad was the coach (and a very nice guy). This tells me two things:

1) My team needs to get better against hard throwers;
2) People truly are ignorant about protecting young arms.

42 pitches the first day, 74 yesterday. Finally pulled him. MLB pitch smart recommends 2 days rest after that first outing. Instead they bring him back and push him to the daily max. I used to think coaches knew but just didn't care. But maybe they are just ignorant? Of course, I didn't say anything because it's not my business and I would just look like a sore loser. But damn, son, get educated. Keep in mind an MLB professional would take a day off after 42 pitches.

Bottom line, can't really blame these college coaches other than some of the more egregious ones, when we hear about TJ. The damage is being done well before that. And this is a real story - with stats to back it up. I hear some craziness about kids throwing like 180 pitches, I don't believe those. I think most of the offenders are like this story, solidly over the line, but not just absolutely criminal (although pretty damn bad).

 

[MStateU]

When I was young we would take 8 months off every year and go fishing and spin-the-night parties. Yet here I sit without a single 10U battle of possumneck championship ring.

 

[philduckworth]

Must have been a USSSA tourney. PG tournies don't allow that.

 

[Smoked Toag]

Must have been a USSSA tourney. PG tournies don't allow that.

Yeah PG uses MLB pitchsmart. This was ****** Grand Slam. Still go by innings.

 

[dawgstudent]

I heard the kids nickname is "Rubber Arm"

 

[mcdawg22]

When I was young we would take 8 months off every year and go fishing and spin-the-night parties. Yet here I sit without a single 10U battle of possumneck championship ring.

How do you live with yourself? The regret must eat you alive.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

...against my team both times. This kid has a future. Filled up the strike zone. Won the championship. His dad was the coach (and a very nice guy). This tells me two things:

1) My team needs to get better against hard throwers;
2) People truly are ignorant about protecting young arms.

42 pitches the first day, 74 yesterday. Finally pulled him. MLB pitch smart recommends 2 days rest after that first outing. Instead they bring him back and push him to the daily max. I used to think coaches knew but just didn't care. But maybe they are just ignorant? Of course, I didn't say anything because it's not my business and I would just look like a sore loser. But damn, son, get educated. Keep in mind an MLB professional would take a day off after 42 pitches.

Bottom line, can't really blame these college coaches other than some of the more egregious ones, when we hear about TJ. The damage is being done well before that. And this is a real story - with stats to back it up. I hear some craziness about kids throwing like 180 pitches, I don't believe those. I think most of the offenders are like this story, solidly over the line, but not just absolutely criminal (although pretty damn bad).

I'll do you one better. Had a 12-year-old on my son's team throw 160 pitches over the course of two games on Saturday. The kid is an assistant coach's son. I know he threw 160 because I do the GameChanger app for our team and repeatedly sent word to our coach how many pitches the kid had thrown.

The only reason I started doing the GameChanger app was to keep up with my son's pitch count after how our coach used him in our first tournament in February. That led in part to my son getting "Little League Elbow". He's fine now but the coach and I had to have a meeting of the minds on how he would be used going forward because my son also plays catcher. Our coach seems to be more interested in how many innings a kid has left to thrown than how many pitches.

I even had parents from another team come up and ask me why the kid was throwing so much. Much like you I told them I didn't know and it was up to his dad to put a stop to it if the coach wasn't.

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

True story - my son’s 11U team lost yesterday in the semifinals to a pitcher who threw 113 pitches. Keep in mind, that 113 doesn’t count the 50 warmup pitches he threw over 5 innings. Or the other throws he made from shortstop in that team’s other 2 games yesterday.

But Grand Slam only keeps up with innings and Coach Dad REALLY wanted to make it to the championship….

 

[Smoked Toag]

I'll do you one better. Had a 12-year-old on my son's team throw 160 pitches over the course of two games on Saturday. The kid is an assistant coach's son. I know he threw 160 because I do the GameChanger app for our team and repeatedly sent word to our coach how many pitches the kid had thrown.

The only reason I started doing the GameChanger app was to keep up with my son's pitch count after how our coach used him in our first tournament in February. That led in part to my son getting "Little League Elbow". He's fine now but the coach and I had to have a meeting of the minds on how he would be used going forward because my son also plays catcher. Our coach seems to be more interested in how many innings a kid has left to thrown than how many pitches.

I even had parents from another team come up and ask me why the kid was throwing so much. Much like you I told them I didn't know and it was up to his dad to put a stop to it if the coach wasn't.

GameChanger don't lie, it's there for everyone to see.

Man I think I'd get off that team if I were you. If it was my own team I wouldn't have a problem saying something. I just didn't want to call out an opposing team.

At the end of the day, this system is SO 17ed up. From the tournament directing/scheduling to the 'organizations'. These blowhard shaved-arm ex-JUCO burnouts are laughing their way all the way to the bank.

 

[LandArchDawg]

Sounds like a UCL surgery in the making.

 

[8dog]

That ring is gonna look so good in a box in the attic in 10 years.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

GameChanger don't lie, it's there for everyone to see.

Man I think I'd get off that team if I were you. If it was my own team I wouldn't have a problem saying something. I just didn't want to call out an opposing team.

At the end of the day, this system is SO 17ed up. From the tournament directing/scheduling to the 'organizations'. These blowhard shaved-arm ex-JUCO burnouts are laughing their way all the way to the bank.

Oh trust me we are gone after this season. I'm not for quitting mid season because I'm trying to teach him to honor commitments but I've told the coach what I expect going forward regarding pitch counts and if he deviates from that we will be leaving sooner than the end of the season. I honestly don't care if he doesn't pitch another inning this season but he probably will because we don't have a lot of guys that can get it over the plate. I would prefer he get reps at catcher and first base for the rest of the season but we'll see.

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

I can’t believe organizations still use “innings pitched”. Such a dumb metric that doesn’t really measure anything helpful. Theoretically, 1 inning pitched could be 3 pitches or infinity pitches pitched.

Actual pitch count is the only way to go. I’m glad the MHSAA and MSAIS starting using pitch count a few years back, but unfortunately, I’m afraid a lot of the damage is done well before the kids make it to the 9th grade.

 

[Smoked Toag]

I can’t believe organizations still use “innings pitched”. Such a dumb metric that doesn’t really measure anything helpful. Theoretically, 1 inning pitched could be 3 pitches or infinity pitches pitched.

Actual pitch count is the only way to go. I’m glad the MHSAA and MSAIS starting using pitch count a few years back, but unfortunately, I’m afraid a lot of the damage is done well before the kids make it to the 9th grade.

The coach from that team said basically all of his kids were also taking lessons. So you have that on top of pitching on the weekends and throwing in practice. People just have no idea what they are doing. I know a lot of the dumbass dads think they are toughening them up but if you want to do that, make them work in the yard or something. Or play football.

 

[Cooterpoot]

Moral of the story- Don't play daddy ball. Especially when dad is an idiot.

 

[jdbulldog]

Wannabe coaches after that championship season….a sickening thing to watch.

 

[johnson86-1]

This may be a stupid question, but if you don't keep pitching, are there other things people commonly do that cause UCL problems later on?

Just trying to give the parents and coaches the benefit of the doubt, knowing how watered down travel ball has become, there are obviously a lot of kids that aren't even going to play high school ball, much less college. If some of the parents are self aware enough to know that their kid isn't likely continue pitching much in high school and at all in college, how much is over pitching in travel ball going to hurt them later? Will they be likely to hurt it not pitching or have chronic soreness or anything? If not many kids are having UCL issues in high school, maybe they think it doesn't matter for the kids that aren't college prospects?

 

[MStateU]

It’s crippling***

 

[dahmer17]

When I was young we would take 8 months off every year and go fishing and spin-the-night parties. Yet here I sit without a single 10U battle of possumneck championship ring.

That was the year Carmack won the whole thing?

 

[dawgstudent]

We are still coach pitch but our coach probably needs TJ surgery.

[TWEET]1518600454753726464[/TWEET]

 

[Smoked Toag]

This may be a stupid question, but if you don't keep pitching, are there other things people commonly do that cause UCL problems later on?

Just trying to give the parents and coaches the benefit of the doubt, knowing how watered down travel ball has become, there are obviously a lot of kids that aren't even going to play high school ball, much less college. If some of the parents are self aware enough to know that their kid isn't likely continue pitching much in high school and at all in college, how much is over pitching in travel ball going to hurt them later? Will they be likely to hurt it not pitching or have chronic soreness or anything? If not many kids are having UCL issues in high school, maybe they think it doesn't matter for the kids that aren't college prospects?

Bad or even average pitchers aren't being overused. It's the best of the best. I have a hard time believing that any parent who puts that level of time and energy into it, plus lessons, plus actual talent, isn't at least somewhat thinking about the kid's baseball-playing future (even if they are really really stupid about it).

They seem to be better about it in AAA (even though it still happens a good bit), because those teams generally have plenty of talented pitchers. It's the jakelegs in A and AA that try to ride the studs with all caution thrown to the wind.

 

[johnson86-1]

That ring is gonna look so good in a box in the attic in 10 years.

That's a little unfair. That plastic will take hundreds of years to decompose, so there's going to be a record that somebody won that Florida Panhandle U10 Springbreak Super Regional Championship Bash at the Beach Sponsored by Cane's hanging out in a landfill until probably 2522.

 

[MStateU]

Yes because they cheated and recruited a boy from Zama***

 

[CoastTrash]

GameChanger don't lie, it's there for everyone to see.

Man I think I'd get off that team if I were you. If it was my own team I wouldn't have a problem saying something. I just didn't want to call out an opposing team.

At the end of the day, this system is SO 17ed up. From the tournament directing/scheduling to the 'organizations'. These blowhard shaved-arm ex-JUCO burnouts are laughing their way all the way to the bank.

Very interested in anyone's concrete steps as to how to change the current culture/system. Do you go back to a predominantly recreational/local system? Lots of folks don't really want that as they are making money - everyone from the tournament organizations to the local communities that benefit from the influx of out-of-town guests. Lot's of beeching about this "system" but the system is the way it is because there is no better alternative, but I'd love to be proven wrong here.

 

[Smoked Toag]

Very interested in anyone's concrete steps as to how to change the current culture/system. Do you go back to a predominantly recreational/local system? Lots of folks don't really want that as they are making money - everyone from the tournament organizations to the local communities that benefit from the influx of out-of-town guests. Lot's of beeching about this "system" but the system is the way it is because there is no better alternative, but I'd love to be proven wrong here.

It's the tournament format that is the biggest problem. I'd love to just see a 'regular season' type of format from March-May, with tournament formats in June. You have a record, SOS, etc. At end of you are placed into A, AA or AAA and then play your tournaments for 'rings' or trophies or whatever. You can still play on the weekend, and still get your 3-4 games in guaranteed. More players get to develop.

You can still pay entry fees and all that. I have no problem with folks trying to make money, since more games = more money, that's how it works. But do the **** right. Right now they are chasing ONLY profit, NOT development of the game of baseball. If they would do both, youth baseball would probably explode again.

I don't know that things are ever going back to pure rec ball. That system had its problems too.

You have to have somebody in charge that actually cares. Somebody that sees the system for what it is, and what it should be.

 

[beachbumdawg]

...against my team both times. This kid has a future. Filled up the strike zone. Won the championship. His dad was the coach (and a very nice guy). This tells me two things:

1) My team needs to get better against hard throwers;
2) People truly are ignorant about protecting young arms.

42 pitches the first day, 74 yesterday. Finally pulled him. MLB pitch smart recommends 2 days rest after that first outing. Instead they bring him back and push him to the daily max. I used to think coaches knew but just didn't care. But maybe they are just ignorant? Of course, I didn't say anything because it's not my business and I would just look like a sore loser. But damn, son, get educated. Keep in mind an MLB professional would take a day off after 42 pitches.

Bottom line, can't really blame these college coaches other than some of the more egregious ones, when we hear about TJ. The damage is being done well before that. And this is a real story - with stats to back it up. I hear some craziness about kids throwing like 180 pitches, I don't believe those. I think most of the offenders are like this story, solidly over the line, but not just absolutely criminal (although pretty damn bad).

I’m just thankful my 10yr old doesn’t have a broken hand - he took 67 off his hand on a check swing (kid topped at 71 in game - was up to 73 in warmups)

 

[RedStickDawg]

I don’t disagree about it really not being your business, but for the kid’s sake I’d make it my business and let him know what an idiot I think he is for abusing a child like that to win a stupid ring that no one will give a care about years from now. It’s simply not worth it. I help coach a 10U travel team in Baton Rouge and our HC is a former MLB pitcher. We literally baby every single arm we have and if we get to semi final or championship and we are out of arms then we just walk across and forfeit. It’s not worth a kid’s arm…EVER. That coach needs to hear it from someone so he at least knows people are seeing what’s happening and it’s not acceptable. It’ll come back to haunt him one way or another.

 

[garddog]

49 years old and I still have pain and can't throw a baseball 50 feet anymore. Messed myself up at 15 years old over throwing. Most kids have been taught to "be tough" so they never say anything till it is too late.

It is absolutely criminal with the information that is available these days that kids are being used like that.

 

[HotMop]

I'll do you one better. Had a 12-year-old on my son's team throw 160 pitches over the course of two games on Saturday. The kid is an assistant coach's son. I know he threw 160 because I do the GameChanger app for our team and repeatedly sent word to our coach how many pitches the kid had thrown.

The only reason I started doing the GameChanger app was to keep up with my son's pitch count after how our coach used him in our first tournament in February. That led in part to my son getting "Little League Elbow". He's fine now but the coach and I had to have a meeting of the minds on how he would be used going forward because my son also plays catcher. Our coach seems to be more interested in how many innings a kid has left to thrown than how many pitches.

I even had parents from another team come up and ask me why the kid was throwing so much. Much like you I told them I didn't know and it was up to his dad to put a stop to it if the coach wasn't.

Why would you pay to play for a coach who has a kid on the team? I straight up told my last seasons director that I wouldn't play on a team because the coach had his 2 daughter's on the team. Club dropped from 6 teams to 3, had Daddy's coaching every team.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

Why would you pay to play for a coach who has a kid on the team? I straight up told my last seasons director that I wouldn't play on a team because the coach had his 2 daughter's on the team. Club dropped from 6 teams to 3, had Daddy's coaching every team.

The head coach doesn't have a son on the team. His kid is a senior in high school. That's why we decided to join this team. This was the assistant coach's son who was pitching.

 

[HotMop]

The head coach doesn't have a son on the team. His kid is a senior in high school. That's why we decided to join this team. This was the assistant coach's son who was pitching.

That's what I said, a Coach.

 

[coachnorm]

I will one up the issue and talk about a know it all parent who screwed up is sons baseball career. The player was one of those year round baseball players who played catcher. The player would catch all seven innings in nearly all games year round. Pitchers are on pitch counts on most reputable organizations but catchers aren't. This means if a certain amount of pitches are thrown during a game or series, the catcher will throw back to the pitcher nearly all pitches thrown during the game or series? The know it all clown parent exposed his son to overworking his arm to the point that he was compromised his senior year of high school. Believe it or not, starting catchers throw more than starting pitchers? I wonder how many clown club managers benefit from overworked young baseball participants?

 

[johnson86-1]

Why would you pay to play for a coach who has a kid on the team? I straight up told my last seasons director that I wouldn't play on a team because the coach had his 2 daughter's on the team. Club dropped from 6 teams to 3, had Daddy's coaching every team.

Why would 90% of people pay a prior midlevel baseball player to coach their kids who have ~0% of playing college ball? I mean, if you have money to burn, that's great. Spend it on coaching I guess. But if you don't say, have a vacation home, I bet in 20 years your kid would appreciate having a vacation home more than having had paid baseball coaches when he was in elementary and middle school.

 

[archdog]

Hell I am 40 and I cannot throw a baseball overhand anymore. Not from over-pitching, but it was from trying to man up and out drive an old man when I was 30. I was on hole 10 at the bridges, and really smashed it, but I felt my shoulder tear in half. Still hurts to this day.

Before that, I could still throw straight gas.