We are past the point of no return

[615dawg]

Mississippi State is finished as a major football program. We can't compete in this era of NIL and the transfer portal. Any decent player we have will be playing for someone else next year and we will be in a constant state of rebuild. We just got curb stomped by a MAC program at home. We still have five games (four on the road) against top ten teams that are all unbeaten. We are likely looking at 2-10 (0-8) and by the time Massachusetts comes into town, we may have packed it in.

All those years of being "The People's University" and giving scholarships to students that aren't college ready and eventually drop out have given us big numbers and a bunch of Pell Grant money to build a nice campus, but its about to be all for nothing. US News rankings come out Tuesday - we will be dead last in the SEC and amongst the three worst in a Power 4 conference because we have ignored academic growth for a decade and a half.

The Starkville economy is doomed. Ive already seen diehard fans dropping tickets for next week. Why waste your time and money on this? Why waste any emotional bandwidth on this?

The Croom era was different. You didn't have the transfer portal and SEC players making $1 million plus. What little our fanbase gives to NIL will go to baseball.

 

[POTUS]

The odds we are still in the P4 by 2040 are miniscule. You can scream “cHarRrTurr mEMbur!” all you want but we are going the way of Oregon State. Also Ole Miss is clearly here to stay. It’s basically a worst nightmare scenario come true. I’m not even upset. We’re just completely 17’d and there’s no way out.

 

[615dawg]

The odds we are still in the P4 by 2040 are miniscule. You can scream “cHarRrTurr mEMbur!” all you want but we are going the way of Oregon State. Also Ole Miss is clearly here to stay. It’s basically a worst nightmare scenario come true. I’m not even upset. We’re just completely 17’d and there’s no way out.

Ive been saying it for three years. The OSU/WSU issue opened a few more to it and now more people are seeing it. We're done. And it won't take until 2040. The plans are already laid out. The next round of TV negotiations (2030-2032) will demand a completely different design for college football.

The day the NCAA allowed NIL with no restrictions destroyed the sport. We're headed for an NFL model of 24-32 teams playing at the highest level.

 

[POTUS]

Ive been saying it for three years. The OSU/WSU issue opened a few more to it and now more people are seeing it. We're done. And it won't take until 2040. The plans are already laid out. The next round of TV negotiations (2030-2032) will demand a completely different design for college football.

The day the NCAA allowed NIL with no restrictions destroyed the sport.

I just put 2040 because I can’t remember when the ACC grant of rights is up. That’s d-day for our future.

 

[615dawg]

I just put 2040 because I can’t remember when the ACC grant of rights is up. That’s d-day for our future.

Exactly. When this story is written, that will be the catalyst for the end of college football.

 

[Villagedawg]

Exactly. When this story is written, that will be the catalyst for the end of college football.

I’d say don’t look now, but college football is already over at P4 level. It’s already a pro developmental league. Has been for a while, but the old transfer rules kept the illusion that it was about the school on the jersey. Unlimited transfer and nil just shattered the illusion. How many P4 players are true student athletes. Very few. The future of what we think of as college football is outside the P4.

 

[615dawg]

Look what is happening at Georgia. Over 25 players have been cited for reckless driving or DUI. You are giving these 18-22 year olds some serious money in which they are buying frivolous things, including cars. This is infiltrating college campuses nationwide. Sure athletes have always received some form of special treatment, but now you are adding a bunch of cash to the equation and the entitlement is through the roof.

We are going to have some serious issues when the guys making $500k in NIL money don't pan out in the NFL and have to sell insurance. Its a fine career option, but its going to be a serious downgrade in quality of life.

 

[patdog]

Don't be ridiculous. Of course we'll never compete with the top schools in the SEC. We never have. But we could damn sure compete better than schools like Arizona St. and Toledo if we'd ever get our heads out of our a$$es.

 

[615dawg]

And another thing - the simple response everyone is spouting on social media is "Fire Lebby"/"Fire everyone" Its not that simple.

Arguably the greatest coach the sport has ever seen retired early because of this NIL/transfer crap and where its going.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

I'm glad I haven't purchased real estate in Starkville in the last 4 years. I can see enrollment declining and the town starting to thin out. Some folks who are depending on that home equity being part of their retirement equation may have to work until they can get full SS benefits.

 

[Maroon13]

Yeah. Broken record ......but The transfer portal and nil concerns me the most going forward. Lebby and company will gain experience and knowledge. They'll get better at coaching. However there is no guarantee any of our few good athletes stick around for the rebuild. ...and you know OM and a few others will be coming for our few good athletes in the off season.

 

[Maroon13]

Speaking of nil entitlement..... how many of these G5s (Toledo, Memphis) have players that have been in their program 3-4 years? I really want to know.

You may be seeing a situation in college football similar to college basketball. Where smaller schools have none nil guys who stick around and learn for a few years and gell as a team and get better. One can dream.......

 

[She Mate Me]

I'm generally pretty level headed in my older age about fandom, but I fear the negativeness about our football program is warranted.

This new era was never going to be good for programs like ours, even with the huge advantage of being in the SEC.

But then we tragically lost a solid HC at basically the exact worst time and here we are.

This will be a historically bad season at MSU. After last night that is obvious to me now.

I wasn't sure what the ASU game meant, but I was worried. Toledo allowed for a more honest assessment. You pretty much know what a MAC team is. Usually pretty solidly coached but undermanned vs most any SEC team.

Toledo had significantly better talent and coaching than we did. There can be no doubt.

We are at 1971, 1988 and late Jackie, most of Croom levels. And it's in an era where our typical ways of recovering from those lows are gone.

I'm not hopeful.

 

[615dawg]

Speaking of nil entitlement..... how many of these G5s (Toledo, Memphis) have players that have been in their program 3-4 years? I really want to know.

You may be seeing a situation in college football similar to college basketball. Where smaller schools have none nil guys who stick around and learn for a few years and gell as a team and get better. One can dream.......

What you have with P4 programs are basically mercenaries. Well coached G5 teams will continue to pick off the struggling P4 teams.

 

[615dawg]

I'm generally pretty level headed in my older age about fandom, but I fear the negativeness about our football program is warranted.

This new era was never going to be good for programs like ours, even with the huge advantage of being in the SEC.

But then we tragically lost a solid HC at basically the exact worst time and here we are.

This will be a historically bad season at MSU. After last night that is obvious to me now.

I wasn't sure what the ASU game meant, but I was worried. Toledo allowed for a more honest assessment. You pretty much know what a MAC team is. Usually pretty solidly coached but undermanned vs most any SEC team.

Toledo had significantly better talent and coaching than we did. There can be no doubt.

We are at 1971, 1988 and late Jackie, most of Croom levels. And it's in an era where our typical ways of recovering from those lows are gone.

I'm not hopeful.

Well said. We've been here before, but there has ALWAYS been a clear path out - upgrade coaching, get some solid recruits, upgrade facilities, etc.

Not only are we going to continue to struggle with NIL and our best talent transferring, the roster limits going to 105. That means that Ole miss, LSU, Alabama, and Auburn can take 80 more players - many of which would have considered MSU.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Mississippi State is finished as a major football program. We can't compete in this era of NIL and the transfer portal. Any decent player we have will be playing for someone else next year and we will be in a constant state of rebuild. We just got curb stomped by a MAC program at home. We still have five games (four on the road) against top ten teams that are all unbeaten. We are likely looking at 2-10 (0-8) and by the time Massachusetts comes into town, we may have packed it in.

All those years of being "The People's University" and giving scholarships to students that aren't college ready and eventually drop out have given us big numbers and a bunch of Pell Grant money to build a nice campus, but its about to be all for nothing. US News rankings come out Tuesday - we will be dead last in the SEC and amongst the three worst in a Power 4 conference because we have ignored academic growth for a decade and a half.

The Starkville economy is doomed. Ive already seen diehard fans dropping tickets for next week. Why waste your time and money on this? Why waste any emotional bandwidth on this?

The Croom era was different. You didn't have the transfer portal and SEC players making $1 million plus. What little our fanbase gives to NIL will go to baseball.

I submit Tech and 10 as one hopeful indicator. Luckily, as State fans, we have ample history of bottoming out to provide some hope for the future…the way, way distant future…

 

[bulldognation]

And another thing - the simple response everyone is spouting on social media is "Fire Lebby"/"Fire everyone" Its not that simple.

Arguably the greatest coach the sport has ever seen retired early because of this NIL/transfer crap and where it’s going.

I’m sure NIL may have been a part of it. But when your employer builds a bronze statue of you and names the field after you, really what else is there left to accomplish?

 

[Perd Hapley]

College football as a whole is dead. It’s not just MSU. It’s just a terrible product now, and has been for awhile.

5 years ago, things like Memphis and Boston College boatracing Florida State, Georgia State and Toledo boatracing SEC teams, and Northern Illinois beating ND would be once a season occurrences, which made them special moments.

All 5 of those things have happened in the past 2 weeks, and all for the same reason. Those teams aren’t better, they just were facing teams that didn’t give a 17 if they won or lost….because the money is all they care about. NIL and the portal has just made it impossible to manage these egos, and has destabilized the entire foundation of the sport to where only 10-12 programs max can have any kind of discipline. The NFL doesn’t have that problem. Everyone has the same money to pay out, and if you don’t perform you get cut. And you have to perform for 3-4 years before getting a huge contract.

I mean….Lebby is an absolutely terrible head coach, but at the same time, its hard to blame him. He’s had nobody to mentor him that knows how to manage things in this era….especially at a school like MSU. None of these coaches really have a clue how to keep things in line. Look at how quickly it has fallen apart for Norvell. That’s why Saban walked away….his legs had been cut out from under him.

 

[615dawg]

College football as a whole is dead. It’s not just MSU. It’s just a terrible product now, and has been for awhile.

5 years ago, things like Memphis and Boston College boatracing Florida State, Georgia State and Toledo boatracing SEC teams, and Northern Illinois beating ND would be once a season occurrences, which made them special moments.

All 5 of those things have happened in the past 2 weeks, and all for the same reason. Those teams aren’t better, they just were facing teams that didn’t give a 17 if they won or lost….because the money is all they care about. NIL and the portal has just made it impossible to manage these egos, and has destabilized the entire foundation of the sport to where only 10-12 programs max can have any kind of discipline.

I mean….Lebby is an absolutely terrible head coach, but at the same time, its hard to blame him. He’s had nobody to mentor him that knows how to manage things in this era….especially at a school like MSU.

Yep. The death of college football started with the ridiculous expansion of bowls - most of which lost millions without ESPN subsidies. Then you had TV networks making schedules, then making conferences. Not every decision made in the past 25 years has been bad, but all of them together have led to this. We let some TV network executives destroy the sport.

Now you have third string guys walking into Nick Saban's office demanding a million dollars or he will transfer. Its a cancer.

 

[SchrodingersDawg]

Yeah. Broken record ......but The transfer portal and nil concerns me the most going forward. Lebby and company will gain experience and knowledge. They'll get better at coaching. However there is no guarantee any of our few good athletes stick around for the rebuild. ...and you know OM and a few others will be coming for our few good athletes in the off season.

The joke's going to be on them!

 

[8dog]

This thread is a trip.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Arguably the greatest coach the sport has ever seen retired early because of this NIL/transfer crap and where its going.

You do realize he is 72 years old? That's well past retirement age for any profession.

 

[mstateglfr]

The odds we are still in the P4 by 2040 are miniscule. You can scream “cHarRrTurr mEMbur!” all you want but we are going the way of Oregon State. Also Ole Miss is clearly here to stay. It’s basically a worst nightmare scenario come true. I’m not even upset. We’re just completely 17’d and there’s no way out.

That's more than 15 years from now.
The odds that there is even a P4 in 15 years is miniscule, at least based on the rapid change over the prior 15 years.

 

[ababyatemydingo]

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

If we are going to do that...

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

 

[Podgy]

Well said. We've been here before, but there has ALWAYS been a clear path out - upgrade coaching, get some solid recruits, upgrade facilities, etc.

Not only are we going to continue to struggle with NIL and our best talent transferring, the roster limits going to 105. That means that Ole miss, LSU, Alabama, and Auburn can take 80 more players - many of which would have considered MSU.

That new roster limit just compounds our problems. It's almost like Alabama, Jawja, Michigan, Ohio State and Texas got together and decided that it's only fair that the wealthiest universities that care about football the most write rules that ensure they benefit the most. There's really not enough elite college talent to go around. The NFL knows that it's not a bad thing for small market teams to have a lot of success.

 

[Maroon13]

The mentor part..... that's a good point. Look how good Mullen was after being with Myer. Then Mullen kept a good number guys himself.

But you don't have long time coaches anymore. Like Bear Bryant, Pat Dye, Dooley, Bowden and etc. All these staffs leave and change teams, I wonder how much they're learning on the job themselves.

 

[Podgy]

Yep. The death of college football started with the ridiculous expansion of bowls - most of which lost millions without ESPN subsidies. Then you had TV networks making schedules, then making conferences. Not every decision made in the past 25 years has been bad, but all of them together have led to this. We let some TV network executives destroy the sport.

Now you have third string guys walking into Nick Saban's office demanding a million dollars or he will transfer. Its a cancer.

I like being able to see pretty much any team in any sport on TV. I don't have to buy season tix.

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

I’m sure NIL may have been a part of it. But when your employer builds a bronze statue of you and names the field after you, really what else is there left to accomplish?

And he was 72 or 73 years old. He was so tired, that he has an office on campus and goes up there every week. Doing 3 or 4 commercial. Doing pre-game shows.

 

[85Bears]

The mentor part..... that's a good point. Look how good Mullen was after being with Myer. Then Mullen kept a good number guys himself.

But you don't have long time coaches anymore. Like Bear Bryant, Pat Dye, Dooley, Bowden and etc. All these staffs leave and change teams, I wonder how much they're learning on the job themselves.

We had some coaching talent on Leachs staff but we were in a hurry to purge all those guys. What a joke

 

[leeinator]

It's really hard to imagine where this will all end and how it will look, but rest assured, it won't be good for us. I'm thinking we may have to accept competing in a lower level conference, or a lower division of our current one. And in some ways, that might not be so bad......at least we'll be more competitive and the opportunity to play for a lower level championship.

 

[StealYourState]

It's really hard to imagine where this will all end and how it will look, but rest assured, it won't be good for us. I'm thinking we may have to accept competing in a lower level conference, or a lower division of our current one. And in some ways, that might not be so bad......at least we'll be more competitive and the opportunity to play for a lower level championship.

It's really hard to imagine where this will all end and how it will look, but rest assured, it won't be good for us. I'm thinking we may have to accept competing in a lower level conference, or a lower division of our current one. And in some ways, that might not be so bad......at least we'll be more competitive and the opportunity to play for a lower level championship.

I can smell the Gene’s Page on you through my computer

 

[blacklistedbully]

I submit Tech and 10 as one hopeful indicator. Luckily, as State fans, we have ample history of bottoming out to provide some hope for the future…the way, way distant future…

The game today is NOTHING like it was in the past. It simply makes no sense to think the same chances of recovering are available to us now.

IMO the only way we survive and maybe thrive occasionally is if they do something to limit the extreme damage, such as a form of salary cap and luxury taxes. For me, that wouldn't get me back to caring about what is now essentially semipro football, minor league baseball (actually worse because being semipro in college is a better life than that of a minor-leaguer), etc.

There is no longer a real connection to the students and alum who actually care about our universities. Players are mercenaries where there is not even a need to create an illusion or mix of reality and illusion that we've had before. It's so much more difficult to care about players when we lose the connection of "them" being "us".

 

[blacklistedbully]

It's really hard to imagine where this will all end and how it will look, but rest assured, it won't be good for us. I'm thinking we may have to accept competing in a lower level conference, or a lower division of our current one. And in some ways, that might not be so bad......at least we'll be more competitive and the opportunity to play for a lower level championship.

Does anybody really care much or even know who won the Minor League Baseball championships? How'd you like to live in a world where Ole Miss fans get to sneer, ridicule, look down upon us and torment us from then on? Would you still be passionate and engaged if we became Southern Miss, after having been an SEC team from the inception?

How about becoming one of those programs that gets paid $1 million+ to get our asses whipped by traveling to the SEC teams as one of their gimme, tune-up games...canon fodder for their fans amusement as they consider a win over us only acceptable if they beat us by at least 30 points?

 

[Perd Hapley]

This thread is a trip.

Not really sure what is meant by this.

I mean, I was a 3-decade die hard MSU fan, and I’m not ever going to go out of my way to watch another MSU football game again for as long as I live. In person or on TV. I’m done. Permanently. Everything with NIL / portal and all the BS of the past few years, plus only 6 combined quarters I watched of MSU games in 2024 is all it really took for me to get there. I’m totally OK with that, and I know that I’m not the only one.

But by all means, keep whistling past the graveyard as to what this sport and MSU’s place in it has become.

 

[85Bears]

Not really sure what is meant by this.

I mean, I was a 3-decade die hard MSU fan, and I’m not ever going to go out of my way to watch another MSU football game again for as long as I live. In person or on TV. I’m done. Permanently. Everything with NIL / portal and all the BS of the past few years, plus only 6 combined quarters I watched of MSU games in 2024 is all it really took for me to get there. I’m totally OK with that, and I know that I’m not the only one.

But by all means, keep whistling past the graveyard as to what this sport and MSU’s place in it has become.

Im about there as well. If every sec game is 52-7 im not tuning in for that. I Need to deer hunt more any way

 

[Dawg84]

We had some coaching talent on Leachs staff but we were in a hurry to purge all those guys. What a joke

Kinda crazy… we start winning with a branded coach, yet the fan base was constantly saying he didn’t belong here.

 

[MagicDawg]

I was there last night. Marched in Alumni Band at halftime. At the end I walked off the field and straight to my car.

I'm grateful I lived to see 2014.

I will continue to be a Mississippi State Bulldog, but the program that Dak and Dan left us is no more. Ten years on, our long fall from the mountaintop is utterly complete.

Cheers!

 

[theoriginalSALTYdog]

Then there's this.........I heard this song hundreds of times at The Club back in the day..........