What is Ray thinking?

[Prestonyte]

OK, make his pay competitive based on this past season. But no extension or painful buyout if we revert back to the same Kingston teams of the past few years.
Gamecocks' AD Ray Tanner on Mark Kingston extension progress (on3.com)

 

[Blues man]

Wonder if Ray too has a rep and his rep is talking to Kingston's rep while we all get played.

 

[Fried Chicken]

I get a one year extension but agree…no buyout. I can’t recall hearing any program interested in speaking with Kingston about their HC vacancy. No need for buyout to get him to stick around as he isn’t going anywhere anyway.

Plus, the lack of pitching next year is pretty stunning. Hope some of these younger guys step up!

 

[ToddFlanders]

OK, make his pay competitive based on this past season. But no extension or painful buyout if we revert back to the same Kingston teams of the past few years.
Gamecocks' AD Ray Tanner on Mark Kingston extension progress (on3.com)

Exactly. Pay him a little more than the new guy at UGA that has no track record as a head coach, put on some years, but you don’t give in to big buyouts until someone else comes knocking (and maybe not even then). But, if another team wants to come in and try and take him (there are zero from all accounts right now), then talk bigger numbers.

for now, give him a nice pat on the back and a raise, but don’t put the school in a horrible position prematurely like he did with Muschamp and Martin.

 

[Cocky99]

So Ray extended Kingston one year- with no buy out if he gets fired? As if Ray actually put him in the hot seat?
It sounds like Ray learned from his Muschamp blunder. Even though anyone within common sense would have known NOT to do that in the first place.
Ray probably still has no business as an A/D. You just can’t mishandle a football hire as bad as he did with Muschamp…

 

[Sweetwatergolf]

So Ray extended Kingston one year- with no buy out if he gets fired? As if Ray actually put him in the hot seat?
It sounds like Ray learned from his Muschamp blunder. Even though anyone within common sense would have known NOT to do that in the first place.
Ray probably still has no business as an A/D. You just can’t mishandle a football hire as bad as he did with Muschamp…

This is all he deserves IMO. Extension would be for this past year performance. Show continued progress and pay will increase accordingly.
Definitely no buy out.....

 

[Big JC]

As great as baseball is, it is still a money loser sport to the tune of around $1.5 million last year. KIngston has been good but not great and should be happy with what Ray gave him.

 

[Deleted11512]

Exactly. Pay him a little more than the new guy at UGA that has no track record as a head coach, put on some years, but you don’t give in to big buyouts until someone else comes knocking (and maybe not even then). But, if another team wants to come in and try and take him (there are zero from all accounts right now), then talk bigger numbers.

for now, give him a nice pat on the back and a raise, but don’t put the school in a horrible position prematurely like he did with Muschamp and Martin.

He shouldn't get a raise, period. He's done nothing to warrant it. He's got a losing record in the SEC. He's lucky to have this damn job. Ray made a mistake in hiring him, he doesn't have to keep making mistakes with the guy. Want to extend him to see if he can build on this past year, fine. But that should be all he gets. No raise, no buyout. If he doesn't like it, good luck finding another major program to pay him $600K/yr....spoiler alert, he can't. This is the same thinking that got him in trouble with Muschamp. He had one good year and Ray thought that was enough...it's not. Especially when the guy's track record suggests it's an anomaly. I'd rather him hire a guy with zero head coaching experience than a guy with bad head coaching experience.

 

[ToddFlanders]

He shouldn't get a raise, period. He's done nothing to warrant it. He's got a losing record in the SEC. He's lucky to have this damn job. Ray made a mistake in hiring him, he doesn't have to keep making mistakes with the guy. Want to extend him to see if he can build on this past year, fine. But that should be all he gets. No raise, no buyout. If he doesn't like it, good luck finding another major program to pay him $600K/yr....spoiler alert, he can't. This is the same thinking that got him in trouble with Muschamp. He had one good year and Ray thought that was enough...it's not. Especially when the guy's track record suggests it's an anomaly. I'd rather him hire a guy with zero head coaching experience than a guy with bad head coaching experience.

Nine of the 14 SEC coaches make over $1M a year - so at $600k, he's way under the market for the conference. I don't think they need to get close to $1M, but he should make more than the new UGA coach. But again, nothing that handcuffs USC to him if this last season ends up as a successful blip on the radar.

 

[Deleted11512]

Nine of the 14 SEC coaches make over $1M a year - so at $600k, he's way under the market for the conference. I don't think they need to get close to $1M, but he should make more than the new UGA coach. But again, nothing that handcuffs USC to him if this last season ends up as a successful blip on the radar.

Lets dive in to all making more than King:

Corbin - $2.4M. CWS ring, multiple trips to Omaha
Bianco - $1.6M CWS ring
Schlossnagle - $1.6M 5 trips to Omaha at TCU. 14 out of 15 years at TCU in the tourny. A&M opened the wallet for him, rightfully so.
Vitello - $1.5M 2 Omaha appearances in 5 years at UT...his first HC job. Got his big raise after leading UT to a 40-21 record in 2019, then going to Omaha and winning 50 games in 2021.
Van Horn - $1.4M No real need to justify anything with him. If anything you could say he's underpaid. He's been to Omaha 9 times between Ark/Neb.
O'Sullivan - $1.3M CWS ring, 8 appearances in Omaha. Will either have another ring or his 2nd runner up tonight
Lemonis - $1.3M CWS ring, one other Omaha appearance. 4 out of 5 years at Indiana in tournament. Although 22 & 23 have been awful for him.
Jay Johnson - $1.3M 2 Omaha appearances at AZ, another this year at LSU. Will either be champion or runner up tonight.
Butch Thompson - $1.3M 5 of 7 years at AU in tourny. 2 Omaha appearances and a super appearance.
Wes Johnson - $700K Never been a HC, but a lot of great experience as a pitching coach.

While he's "under market" in terms of pay, he's also waaaay "under market" in terms of qualifications compared to his peers. This is the best conference in the country, and it's not even close. SEC baseball is much more dominant than SEC football.

Everyone making over $1M has at least two Omaha appearances, with 4 of them having CWS rings. While that's a large jump from $700K to $1.3M, we shouldn't pay more just because UGA might have overpaid for a guy that's never been a HC before. He's getting more than UK's HC, who also has 2 supers under his belt. I'd say he's being paid accordingly. If RT feels the need to pay more, he needs to find a better option. Baseball doesn't make money as it is. There's no need in lighting (more) money on fire with King's contract.

 

[jasonscottinsc]

You have to give coaches extensions that put them at an institution for a minimum of four years or else that's used against you in recruiting where coaches can say your coach won't be here when you're a senior etc.... it's common sense. There won't be a big buyout, but you have to extend him. That's the nature of the coaching business.

This past year was really good and a lot of talent coming back. As others have stated, SEC baseball may be even better than SEC football in terms of number of great teams every year. Since 2008, there has been an SEC team in the championship series/game every year but one, and five other SEC teams have won the CWS since USC last won it in 2011. .... that means we're not the only ones who give a crap about baseball.

 

[Forkcock]

Lets dive in to all making more than King:

Corbin - $2.4M. CWS ring, multiple trips to Omaha
Bianco - $1.6M CWS ring
Schlossnagle - $1.6M 5 trips to Omaha at TCU. 14 out of 15 years at TCU in the tourny. A&M opened the wallet for him, rightfully so.
Vitello - $1.5M 2 Omaha appearances in 5 years at UT...his first HC job. Got his big raise after leading UT to a 40-21 record in 2019, then going to Omaha and winning 50 games in 2021.
Van Horn - $1.4M No real need to justify anything with him. If anything you could say he's underpaid. He's been to Omaha 9 times between Ark/Neb.
O'Sullivan - $1.3M CWS ring, 8 appearances in Omaha. Will either have another ring or his 2nd runner up tonight
Lemonis - $1.3M CWS ring, one other Omaha appearance. 4 out of 5 years at Indiana in tournament. Although 22 & 23 have been awful for him.
Jay Johnson - $1.3M 2 Omaha appearances at AZ, another this year at LSU. Will either be champion or runner up tonight.
Butch Thompson - $1.3M 5 of 7 years at AU in tourny. 2 Omaha appearances and a super appearance.
Wes Johnson - $700K Never been a HC, but a lot of great experience as a pitching coach.

While he's "under market" in terms of pay, he's also waaaay "under market" in terms of qualifications compared to his peers. This is the best conference in the country, and it's not even close. SEC baseball is much more dominant than SEC football.

Everyone making over $1M has at least two Omaha appearances, with 4 of them having CWS rings. While that's a large jump from $700K to $1.3M, we shouldn't pay more just because UGA might have overpaid for a guy that's never been a HC before. He's getting more than UK's HC, who also has 2 supers under his belt. I'd say he's being paid accordingly. If RT feels the need to pay more, he needs to find a better option. Baseball doesn't make money as it is. There's no need in lighting (more) money on fire with King's contract.

He's worse than I thought.

 

[Deleted11512]

You have to give coaches extensions that put them at an institution for a minimum of four years or else that's used against you in recruiting where coaches can say your coach won't be here when you're a senior etc.... it's common sense. There won't be a big buyout, but you have to extend him. That's the nature of the coaching business.

This past year was really good and a lot of talent coming back. As others have stated, SEC baseball may be even better than SEC football in terms of number of great teams every year. Since 2008, there has been an SEC team in the championship series/game every year but one, and five other SEC teams have won the CWS since USC last won it in 2011. .... that means we're not the only ones who give a crap about baseball.

I agree. Since he's keeping him you have to extend him. But there shouldn't be a buy out and shouldn't be a raise involved.

 

[will110]

Lets dive in to all making more than King:

Corbin - $2.4M. CWS ring, multiple trips to Omaha
Bianco - $1.6M CWS ring
Schlossnagle - $1.6M 5 trips to Omaha at TCU. 14 out of 15 years at TCU in the tourny. A&M opened the wallet for him, rightfully so.
Vitello - $1.5M 2 Omaha appearances in 5 years at UT...his first HC job. Got his big raise after leading UT to a 40-21 record in 2019, then going to Omaha and winning 50 games in 2021.
Van Horn - $1.4M No real need to justify anything with him. If anything you could say he's underpaid. He's been to Omaha 9 times between Ark/Neb.
O'Sullivan - $1.3M CWS ring, 8 appearances in Omaha. Will either have another ring or his 2nd runner up tonight
Lemonis - $1.3M CWS ring, one other Omaha appearance. 4 out of 5 years at Indiana in tournament. Although 22 & 23 have been awful for him.
Jay Johnson - $1.3M 2 Omaha appearances at AZ, another this year at LSU. Will either be champion or runner up tonight.
Butch Thompson - $1.3M 5 of 7 years at AU in tourny. 2 Omaha appearances and a super appearance.
Wes Johnson - $700K Never been a HC, but a lot of great experience as a pitching coach.

While he's "under market" in terms of pay, he's also waaaay "under market" in terms of qualifications compared to his peers. This is the best conference in the country, and it's not even close. SEC baseball is much more dominant than SEC football.

Everyone making over $1M has at least two Omaha appearances, with 4 of them having CWS rings. While that's a large jump from $700K to $1.3M, we shouldn't pay more just because UGA might have overpaid for a guy that's never been a HC before. He's getting more than UK's HC, who also has 2 supers under his belt. I'd say he's being paid accordingly. If RT feels the need to pay more, he needs to find a better option. Baseball doesn't make money as it is. There's no need in lighting (more) money on fire with King's contract.

I knew his numbers were mediocre, but yikes at these comparisons.

 

[Blues man]

Lets dive in to all making more than King:

Corbin - $2.4M. CWS ring, multiple trips to Omaha
Bianco - $1.6M CWS ring
Schlossnagle - $1.6M 5 trips to Omaha at TCU. 14 out of 15 years at TCU in the tourny. A&M opened the wallet for him, rightfully so.
Vitello - $1.5M 2 Omaha appearances in 5 years at UT...his first HC job. Got his big raise after leading UT to a 40-21 record in 2019, then going to Omaha and winning 50 games in 2021.
Van Horn - $1.4M No real need to justify anything with him. If anything you could say he's underpaid. He's been to Omaha 9 times between Ark/Neb.
O'Sullivan - $1.3M CWS ring, 8 appearances in Omaha. Will either have another ring or his 2nd runner up tonight
Lemonis - $1.3M CWS ring, one other Omaha appearance. 4 out of 5 years at Indiana in tournament. Although 22 & 23 have been awful for him.
Jay Johnson - $1.3M 2 Omaha appearances at AZ, another this year at LSU. Will either be champion or runner up tonight.
Butch Thompson - $1.3M 5 of 7 years at AU in tourny. 2 Omaha appearances and a super appearance.
Wes Johnson - $700K Never been a HC, but a lot of great experience as a pitching coach.

While he's "under market" in terms of pay, he's also waaaay "under market" in terms of qualifications compared to his peers. This is the best conference in the country, and it's not even close. SEC baseball is much more dominant than SEC football.

Everyone making over $1M has at least two Omaha appearances, with 4 of them having CWS rings. While that's a large jump from $700K to $1.3M, we shouldn't pay more just because UGA might have overpaid for a guy that's never been a HC before. He's getting more than UK's HC, who also has 2 supers under his belt. I'd say he's being paid accordingly. If RT feels the need to pay more, he needs to find a better option. Baseball doesn't make money as it is. There's no need in lighting (more) money on fire with King's contract.

Good post. It certainly is a good look when schools pay big for success rather than the privilege of coaching somewhere.

 

[Deleted11512]

I knew his numbers were mediocre, but yikes at these comparisons.

Exactly. People too often get caught up in the surface discussion of "he's underpaid based on the market". The problem is, he's not in the market. Simply making a super isn't really competitive when you're talking about the SEC. It doesn't register.

 

[Forkcock]

This is the most damning thread I’ve ever seen, regarding Kingston.

 

[CockyCody]

From what I have seen of and from Ray, I would say he is thinking about food!!

 

[gamecox4982]

The only way Ray is able to do that is because he as Monty Lee in his back pocket

 

[Deleted11512]

The only way Ray is able to do that is because he as Monty Lee in his back pocket

Yeah, no thanks on that one. Winning at Clem shouldn't have been that hard. The ACC isn't necessarily good, and Monte failed. That would make no sense....therefore, it will likely happen with RT calling the shots. If Monte is the next coach, it proves that RT didn't learn his lesson with WM.

 

[KingWard]

OK, make his pay competitive based on this past season. But no extension or painful buyout if we revert back to the same Kingston teams of the past few years.
Gamecocks' AD Ray Tanner on Mark Kingston extension progress (on3.com)

Not the time for a big commitment, nothing beyond a gesture paving the way to a larger commitment if warranted. We can replace THIS guy if we need to. What other SEC program is going to throw big money at HIM?

 

[Deleted11512]

Not the time for a big commitment, nothing beyond a gesture paving the way to a larger commitment if warranted. We can replace THIS guy if we need to. What other SEC program is going to throw big money at HIM?

This is the correct answer. Not only SEC program, but what legit P5 program is going to hire a guy that can't post a winning record at a place like SC? Baffling. There's literally nobody to compete with, other than yourself.

 

[jasonscottinsc]

I agree. Since he's keeping him you have to extend him. But there shouldn't be a buy out and shouldn't be a raise involved.

No agent worth his salt would allow his client to sign a contract without some securities in there.

 

[Deleted11512]

No agent worth his salt would allow his client to sign a contract without some securities in there.

In this case neither the agent nor the client has any negotiating power whatsoever. He doesn't have a better (or comparable) option, and if he did, I would hope RT would encourage him to pursue it. The security is the job itself at this point. He hasn't proven worthy to keep this job, yet he remains. He and his agent are very lucky we've got RT on the job, even if there is no raise involved. The $600 he's getting is much better than the $250 he's going to get as an assistant or HC at a mid major.