What would it take to get back to a 2014 high

[TaleofTwoDogs]

After seeing the first CFP rankings it brought back memories of us being in the first poll back in 2014. Assuming that NIL money is available (big if) would adding a couple of Dak and Simmons level players to our existing recruiting class take us over the hump and back to the 2014 glory year? Are we close enough as a program for a couple of players to make enough of a difference? Also wondering if NIL was in place back in Dak's time what is value would have been.

 

[AstroDog]

A nice start would be signing the 5 star WR from Choctaw County. Then start looking for some Simmons-Jones type DL.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

After seeing the first CFP rankings it brought back memories of us being in the first poll back in 2014. Assuming that NIL money is available (big if) would adding a couple of Dak and Simmons level players to our existing recruiting class take us over the hump and back to the 2014 glory year? Are we close enough as a program for a couple of players to make enough of a difference? Also wondering if NIL was in place back in Dak's time what is value would have been.

A year where we have a once in a generation QB, good defense, and the West is mostly having a down year.

 

[mcdawg22]

A year where we have a once in a generation QB, good defense, and the West is mostly having a down year.

Everyone says the West was down that year. Maybe Alabama was, but it actually was very good in 2014.

 

[Ibdancin]

After seeing the first CFP rankings it brought back memories of us being in the first poll back in 2014. Assuming that NIL money is available (big if) would adding a couple of Dak and Simmons level players to our existing recruiting class take us over the hump and back to the 2014 glory year? Are we close enough as a program for a couple of players to make enough of a difference? Also wondering if NIL was in place back in Dak's time what is value would have been.

- To back the players in the seats to make a difference in noise in the game.
- Allow Leach time to build the program. It took Mullen how long to have that special season? Exactly.

Let Leach build and when he retires, hire a person from his tree that can step in and keep it rolling.


Everybody thinks NIL has changed that. It has not. Look at TAMU who purchased the greatest class ever. Watch what happens over the next month or 2. You are going to see players bolt because the freshmen are the ones the "investors" want on the field. It's their investment. So those highly recruited players from 2 to 3 years ago are going to go.

The issue with NIL is going to be no connection to the school or desire to earn it. When you pay a HS player coming in, he isn't earning his spot. That's why the drug use in the locker room at TAMU happened.

With NIL, MSU needs a different approach. Recruit as normal with smaller NILS and ROB those players buried in a depth chart from other rich Rosters with NIL that have good back grounds. Take Bama and their LBs... They are LB rich and 3 to 4 per class.

 

[aTotal360]

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Goat's plan of attack for State football:

Recruiting:
- Strategically use our limited NIL on defensive talent, we are DLU after all;
- Concentrate our high school recruiting on MS and immediately surrounding areas, perhaps one or two other hand-picked areas where a coach may have a tie (like Leach in Texas);
- Continue to mine JUCOs and the blue blood SEC programs for talented transfers looking for playing time;

Coaching:
- Keep the defense consistent and strong every year, even if this means a defensive guy as head coach, as long as he's open to the next point below;
- Run an innovative, weird offense and commit to this year in year out;
- Eliminate special teams as much as possible outside kicker and punter.

Marketing:
- Take the Oregon approach with uniforms;
- Fundraise like crazy;
- Promote the Golden Triangle and its economy, need more people in the area, bottom line.

Do these things consistently and we have a chance to have more 2014-level success.

 

[PBRME]

Enough developed talent to match up head to head with the best team in the SEC.

 

[POTUS]

It would be in line with everything Leach has done in his career for him to have a season where we are better than 10-3 so, I'd say it's almost a certainty we'll have a better year than 2014. Will we front load all our wins like we did that year? That's another story.

Also, all the hagiography about 2014 is humorous to me because we lost to Alabama & Ole Miss that year and it seems like so many posters here refuse to acknowledge any success that doesn't include beating either of those two. For my part, 2014 was fun but disappointing. We missed a chance to win in Tuscaloosa against a weakened Bama and we absolutely blew the Egg Bowl. Win one of those games and it actually is the kind of season that most people make it out to be.

 

[Dawgg]

 

[Ibdancin]

Goat's plan of attack for State football:

Recruiting:
- Strategically use our limited NIL on defensive talent, we are DLU after all;
- Concentrate our high school recruiting on MS and immediately surrounding areas, perhaps one or two other hand-picked areas where a coach may have a tie (like Leach in Texas);
- Continue to mine JUCOs and the blue blood SEC programs for talented transfers looking for playing time;

Coaching:
- Keep the defense consistent and strong every year, even if this means a defensive guy as head coach, as long as he's open to the next point below;
- Run an innovative, weird offense and commit to this year in year out;
- Eliminate special teams as much as possible outside kicker and punter.

Marketing:
- Take the Oregon approach with uniforms;
- Fundraise like crazy;
- Promote the Golden Triangle and its economy, need more people in the area, bottom line.

Do these things consistently and we have a chance to have more 2014-level success.

RECRUITING... Agree with most of that.

Coaching... It's exactly what we have now. Our DC is basically left alone! We do run an innovated offense. And our Rooms needed for it to excel are improving every class!

Marketing.... Not the easy part. I think our Social Media is really good. I think spending advertising dollars on Social Media needs to pick up. Fundraising since Cohen is gone, will pick up. I read where membership in the bulldawgNIL has doubled since he left.

The area I think is LACKING is the CITY itself. The University needs to develop a "tourist" type feel. Whatever that can be, let it be. The city has done well laying out the road system, now use it. Maybe open the doors to an invest of a "six Flags" type place with a water park (just a thought). Bring in an out door shopping place like a Tanger. Here is why you do those things.

- People will be more willing to attend a game with kids if there are other things to do.
- Brings in a lot of TAX dollars to the area.
- The promotion of the CITY and area will result in growth and that results in NIL money.

The one thing that HAS to happen is a regional push to advertise the city and the university as a great place to shop, dine and entertain. The university HAS to start holding non sports related events REGULARLY. Make people WANT to come to the university for concerts in a hall. A touring dance company. ETC ETC....


In hhort, Make MSU and the City, THE place to be for family fun.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Coaching... It's exactly what we have now. Our DC is basically left alone! We do run an innovated offense. And our Rooms needed for it to excel are improving every class!

Exactly right. That's why I don't understand why people ***** about Leach. In addition, we have stability.

On the Starkville/GTR/tourism part, I think that's happening too.

 

[Ibdancin]

Exactly right. That's why I don't understand why people ***** about Leach. In addition, we have stability.

On the Starkville/GTR/tourism part, I think that's happening too.

It's a must if we want to be the place to be.

 

[L4Dawg]

RECRUITING... Agree with most of that.

Coaching... It's exactly what we have now. Our DC is basically left alone! We do run an innovated offense. And our Rooms needed for it to excel are improving every class!

Marketing.... Not the easy part. I think our Social Media is really good. I think spending advertising dollars on Social Media needs to pick up. Fundraising since Cohen is gone, will pick up. I read where membership in the bulldawgNIL has doubled since he left.

The area I think is LACKING is the CITY itself. The University needs to develop a "tourist" type feel. Whatever that can be, let it be. The city has done well laying out the road system, now use it. Maybe open the doors to an invest of a "six Flags" type place with a water park (just a thought). Bring in an out door shopping place like a Tanger. Here is why you do those things.

- People will be more willing to attend a game with kids if there are other things to do.
- Brings in a lot of TAX dollars to the area.
- The promotion of the CITY and area will result in growth and that results in NIL money.

The one thing that HAS to happen is a regional push to advertise the city and the university as a great place to shop, dine and entertain. The university HAS to start holding non sports related events REGULARLY. Make people WANT to come to the university for concerts in a hall. A touring dance company. ETC ETC....


In hhort, Make MSU and the City, THE place to be for family fun.

Our offense was innovative 40 years ago. It's not anymore. It's old and outdated. Virtually EVERY offense has elements of the Air Raid now. The pure Air Raid is an outdated dinosaur.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Our offense was innovative 40 years ago. It's not anymore. It's old and outdated. Virtually EVERY offense has elements of the Air Raid now. The pure Air Raid is an outdated dinosaur.

Then why is it producing? I think we'd all agree that we have marginal talent running it right now against one of the harder schedules in the country, and according to advanced metrics (not the L4 eye test), we are 26th in the country.

2022 COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFENSIVE FEI RATINGS | Football Outsiders

As of July 2023, all FEI ratings and supporting data have been revised and republished here.

www.footballoutsiders.com

For comparison, we were 18th in the country in 2014.

Time to let it go. And it's still an 'odd' offense, because no one else in the country runs it. That's what we must have.

 

[Ibdancin]

Our offense was innovative 40 years ago. It's not anymore. It's old and outdated. Virtually EVERY offense has elements of the Air Raid now. The pure Air Raid is an outdated dinosaur.

That's simply your opinion because you don't want it. The truth behind it is that it's a top offense.

 

[L4Dawg]

That's simply your opinion because you don't want it. The truth behind it is that it's a top offense.

Y'all need to look at the data. It's average at best.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

We did not have top talent in 2014. But we had good talent in Dak, Josh, and D'Runya on offense. We also had really aggressive O-Line play. But they were thin and wore down by year's end.
After we hit number 1, we had trouble beating UK and Arkansas. ---- it was almost as if we were not ready to play those games.
We went to Tuscaloosa and shat our britches in the first 10 minutes ---- as if we were not ready to play. (When we finally got our act together on offense, the game was over and Grantham's defense could not get off the field.)
We looked way over matched against Hugh Freeze's OM booster purchased talent. --- probably wouldn't have mattered if we were prepared or not for that one.
We did not look prepared for GT in the Orange Bowl. We looked like we had no business being there.

Dan Mullen got us to number 1 in 2014 and then decided he no longer gave a crap about being in Starkville or coaching at MSU. I can't enjoy looking back on the three game stretch against LSU, A&M, and Auburn. They weren't that good and, the truth is, neither were we.

 

[LOTRGOTDAWGFAN]

i can't even imagine what would have been the case in the following 2015 season had d'runniya and josh robertson stayed. We also need personnel to convince talent NOT to leave early for the NFL, finish their degree plans, and be wary of nfl scouts and BS promises being made.

 

[L4Dawg]

We did not have top talent in 2014. But we had good talent in Dak, Josh, and D'Runya on offense. We also had really aggressive O-Line play. But they were thin and wore down by year's end.
After we hit number 1, we had trouble beating UK and Arkansas. ---- it was almost as if we were not ready to play those games.
We went to Tuscaloosa and shat our britches in the first 10 minutes ---- as if we were not ready to play. (When we finally got our act together on offense, the game was over and Grantham's defense could not get off the field.)
We looked way over matched against Hugh Freeze's OM booster purchased talent. --- probably wouldn't have mattered if we were prepared or not for that one.
We did not look prepared for GT in the Orange Bowl. We looked like we had no business being there.

Dan Mullen got us to number 1 in 2014 and then decided he no longer gave a crap about being in Starkville or coaching at MSU. I can't enjoy looking back on the three game stretch against LSU, A&M, and Auburn. They weren't that good and, the truth is, neither were we.

Dak got hurt in the UK game. It didn't keep him out, but he wasn't the same. That had more to do with the collapse than anything.

 

[L4Dawg]

We did not have top talent in 2014. But we had good talent in Dak, Josh, and D'Runya on offense. We also had really aggressive O-Line play. But they were thin and wore down by year's end.
After we hit number 1, we had trouble beating UK and Arkansas. ---- it was almost as if we were not ready to play those games.
We went to Tuscaloosa and shat our britches in the first 10 minutes ---- as if we were not ready to play. (When we finally got our act together on offense, the game was over and Grantham's defense could not get off the field.)
We looked way over matched against Hugh Freeze's OM booster purchased talent. --- probably wouldn't have mattered if we were prepared or not for that one.
We did not look prepared for GT in the Orange Bowl. We looked like we had no business being there.

Dan Mullen got us to number 1 in 2014 and then decided he no longer gave a crap about being in Starkville or coaching at MSU. I can't enjoy looking back on the three game stretch against LSU, A&M, and Auburn. They weren't that good and, the truth is, neither were we.

You need to find another team if you can't look back enjoy beating LSU, A&M, and Auburn in consecutive games....SERIOUSLY.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Y'all need to look at the data. It's average at best.

I gave you the data. You ignored it, as usual, because it doesn't back up your POV.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

We did not have top talent in 2014. But we had good talent in Dak, Josh, and D'Runya on offense. We also had really aggressive O-Line play. But they were thin and wore down by year's end.
After we hit number 1, we had trouble beating UK and Arkansas. ---- it was almost as if we were not ready to play those games.
We went to Tuscaloosa and shat our britches in the first 10 minutes ---- as if we were not ready to play. (When we finally got our act together on offense, the game was over and Grantham's defense could not get off the field.)
We looked way over matched against Hugh Freeze's OM booster purchased talent. --- probably wouldn't have mattered if we were prepared or not for that one.
We did not look prepared for GT in the Orange Bowl. We looked like we had no business being there.

Dan Mullen got us to number 1 in 2014 and then decided he no longer gave a crap about being in Starkville or coaching at MSU. I can't enjoy looking back on the three game stretch against LSU, A&M, and Auburn. They weren't that good and, the truth is, neither were we.

You're right that the season ended in Tuscaloosa. As far as Kentucky and Arkansas, well, everybody has 'down' games, but we won, so who cares. Alabama was our big test, and we didn't get it done.

Had we beaten Alabama, then the Egg Bowl wouldn't have mattered. We'd still be going to Atlanta to take on Missouri, and we'd have won, and made the playoff. It's really sickening to think about.

What's worse is that we'd have fans who were pissed off about that because while we would have been 12-1 and SEC champions and in the playoff, we would have lost to Ole Miss and our idiot segment would be raising hell.

Anyways, I agree with your post to an extent, but disagree that we weren't good. We were a very good team that year. I doubt we win the national championship though, seems Ohio State was rolling at that point.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

i can't even imagine what would have been the case in the following 2015 season had d'runniya and josh robertson stayed. We also need personnel to convince talent NOT to leave early for the NFL, finish their degree plans, and be wary of nfl scouts and BS promises being made.

Derunnya did come back. But I agree Robinson would have helped us. I bet we at least beat LSU and Texas A&M had he returned.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Dak got hurt in the UK game. It didn't keep him out, but he wasn't the same. That had more to do with the collapse than anything.

Dak was hurt against Kentucky and Arkansas, and we won those games.

He was back to full speed against Alabama, and just had a below average game, unfortunately. Cost us the Heisman, SEC title and a shot at the national title.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

You need to find another team if you can't look back enjoy beating LSU, A&M, and Auburn in consecutive games....SERIOUSLY.

SERIOUSLY. I enjoyed it immensely at the time, but it pains me to look back on those games and think about what it led to and what it means now.

 

[LOTRGOTDAWGFAN]

Derunnya did come back. But I agree Robinson would have helped us. I bet we at least beat LSU and Texas A&M had he returned.

they still haven't solved his murder...

Murder of beloved athlete De’Runnya Wilson remains unsolved 2 years later: ‘His family deserves justice, closure’

It’s been just over two years since former basketball and football standout De’Runnya “Bear” Wilson was found shot to death in his Birmingham home, and investigators are again asking for the public’s help in solving the cold case.

www.al.com

 

[Grover777]

Dak Prescott

 

[BigDawg0074]

The offense needs better WR and OL for sure. Defense is in need of better LBs and DBs and safeties. If DL talent just stays even they can get by. I think the QB situation is stable for now assuming the future stars don’t bail.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The offense needs better WR and OL for sure. Defense is in need of better LBs and DBs and safeties. If DL talent just stays even they can get by. I think the QB situation is stable for now assuming the future stars don’t bail.

Funny. Those who were initially skeptical of the Leach hire (me) generally commented that historically, throwing QBs, great WRs, and long/wide OL were the 3 things MSU had failed to recruit that well. And of course, that's what the Air Raid needs. So, 3 years in (basically the phase 1 'cycle'), we should not expect our program to be any better than 7-5 or 8-4 in an 'up' year like this one. Heading into phase 2 (which we're already recruiting for), you hope to see Leach either land those guys, or adapt and do what's necessary to get past 7/8 wins 2-3 years from now.

That's what Mullen did. Went 8-4 in 2010 in his 'upper class' phase 1 cycle with a bunch of guys that were here already, then built the program his way for the phase 2 peak in 2014/2015. But he also had an offense tailor made for the players MSU gets regularly.

We'll see if Leach can do the same. But we should expect to be mediocre until 2025 or so. The good news is, we'll be at least mediocre. Many years MSU was much less than that. May as well see this through until the very end.

 

[Grover777]

This isn’t the up year, especially not with this schedule. Next year will be the up year. This is actually the second full year of Leach , the Covid year was about like a spring practice.

we will be better on offense after Will.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

This isn’t the up year, especially not with this schedule. Next year will be the up year. This is actually the second full year of Leach , the Covid year was about like a spring practice.

we will be better on offense after Will.

How is next year the up year when we lose half the team, and Rogers will still be the QB?

 

[Grover777]

How is next year the up year when we lose half the team, and Rogers will still be the QB?

Please list the players we lose other than Forbes and wheat, we return just about everybody. Yes Rogers will be the q b.


with A COVID year we return the entire lineup other than Forbes and wheat.

we play a soft as charmin schedule

10 wins next year

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

Then why is it producing? I think we'd all agree that we have marginal talent running it right now against one of the harder schedules in the country, and according to advanced metrics (not the L4 eye test), we are 26th in the country.

2022 COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFENSIVE FEI RATINGS | Football Outsiders

As of July 2023, all FEI ratings and supporting data have been revised and republished here.

www.footballoutsiders.com

For comparison, we were 18th in the country in 2014.

Time to let it go. And it's still an 'odd' offense, because no one else in the country runs it. That's what we must have.

I would ask, then why isn't it producing? Cause LSU, Kentucky, and Bama it didn't scare ****.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Please list the players we lose other than Forbes and wheat, we return just about everybody. Yes Rogers will be the q b.


with A COVID year we return the entire lineup other than Forbes and wheat.

we play a soft as charmin schedule

10 wins next year

I don't expect many of those guys to pull a Q Sharp and come back for a 6th year, unless they all get together and decide they want to. Just don't see it.

Sharp, Williams, Wheat and Forbes are for sure gone.

Calvin, J. Davis, Matthews, Johnson, Crumedy, Green, Ducking, Preston, Dolla Bill, K. Jones, Young - all those guys are completing their 5th years.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Legalized marijuana

 

[Grover777]

Ole miss offense was much worse

I don't expect many of those guys to pull a Q Sharp and come back for a 6th year, unless they all get together and decide they want to. Just don't see it.

Sharp, Williams, Wheat and Forbes are for sure gone.

Calvin, J. Davis, Matthews, Johnson, Crumedy, Green, Ducking, Preston, Dolla Bill, K. Jones, Young - all those guys are completing their 5th years.

i don’t care what you expect or don’t expect, the fact is other than wheat , sharp, Forbes everyone has another year with COVID, and with nil we will get everybody back, none are nfl draft picks.

so next year will be a big year given the easy schedule

this does upset the leach bashers to no end, will be a great year

 

[dog12]

We did not have top talent in 2014. But we had good talent in Dak, Josh, and D'Runya on offense. We also had really aggressive O-Line play. But they were thin and wore down by year's end.
After we hit number 1, we had trouble beating UK and Arkansas. ---- it was almost as if we were not ready to play those games.
We went to Tuscaloosa and shat our britches in the first 10 minutes ---- as if we were not ready to play. (When we finally got our act together on offense, the game was over and Grantham's defense could not get off the field.)
We looked way over matched against Hugh Freeze's OM booster purchased talent. --- probably wouldn't have mattered if we were prepared or not for that one.
We did not look prepared for GT in the Orange Bowl. We looked like we had no business being there.

Dan Mullen got us to number 1 in 2014 and then decided he no longer gave a crap about being in Starkville or coaching at MSU. I can't enjoy looking back on the three game stretch against LSU, A&M, and Auburn. They weren't that good and, the truth is, neither were we.

I agree with much of your post.

However, Dak Prescott has essentially been a starting QB in the NFL since 2016. Thus, it's not accurate to say that Dak was a "good" talent. Dak was exceptional, outstanding, etc.

In fact, I would say that any player that plays in the NFL and frequently gets on the field is more than a "good" talent.

 

[L4Dawg]

I gave you the data. You ignored it, as usual, because it doesn't back up your POV.

No you didn't. You gave some made up ratings that posed as statistics. What we run is a 40 year old ball control offense being run by its originator. Emory Bellard 2. It is NOT odd anymore at all by the way. Dang near everyone has some of it in their offense now. Teams see it every week.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

@LordMcBuckethead @L4Dawg

Well, you guys are either just idiots are hate the offense. Just admit one of those two, because you can't argue with the statistics. The offense is good.

The only point even possible is that it didn't work against 3 good defenses that we played. And I'd argue that the offense was fine, but our marginal talent dropped 25 passes in those 3 games.

But by all means, continue to coach34 this discussion.