Which is more pressure: winning a baseball natty or defending a baseball natty?
- Thread starter jdbulldog
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Winning one. Nobody really expects the defending national champions in baseball to repeat, it just doesn’t happen that often. Y’all can downvote the hell out of me, but I think State takes 2 out of 3 this weekend, riding strong pitching performances.
Last year USM lost to State in Pearl, dropped to 4-5, wasn’t doing anything particularly well, and generally just felt bad about ourselves. We went 36-16 from that point. The problem with State isn’t talent, it’s leadership. The veteran players need to step up. And the hitting coach.
Last year USM lost to State in Pearl, dropped to 4-5, wasn’t doing anything particularly well, and generally just felt bad about ourselves. We went 36-16 from that point. The problem with State isn’t talent, it’s leadership. The veteran players need to step up. And the hitting coach.
Let's look at history in the past 10 years, shall we?
2010 South Carolina - repeated
2011 South Carolina - 2012 national runner-up (after already repeating after their first ever title)
2012 Arizona - 2013 didn't make postseason
2013 UCLA - 2014 didn't make postseason (had losing record)
2014 Vanderbilt - 2015 national runner-up
2015 Virginia - 2016 hosted but eliminated at home
2016 Coastal Carolina - 2017 didn't make postseason
2017 Florida - 2018 CWS
2018 Oregon State - 2019 hosted but eliminated at home
2019 Vanderbilt - 2020 was good, then 2021 national runner-up
So basically have a 50/50 shot to be good the following year. Then, factor in the COVID seniors and the shortened MLB draft that we benefitted from, and the fact that many other teams have those older guys now - I think it's easy to see why we are struggling. We simply don't have a ton of maturity.
2010 South Carolina - repeated
2011 South Carolina - 2012 national runner-up (after already repeating after their first ever title)
2012 Arizona - 2013 didn't make postseason
2013 UCLA - 2014 didn't make postseason (had losing record)
2014 Vanderbilt - 2015 national runner-up
2015 Virginia - 2016 hosted but eliminated at home
2016 Coastal Carolina - 2017 didn't make postseason
2017 Florida - 2018 CWS
2018 Oregon State - 2019 hosted but eliminated at home
2019 Vanderbilt - 2020 was good, then 2021 national runner-up
So basically have a 50/50 shot to be good the following year. Then, factor in the COVID seniors and the shortened MLB draft that we benefitted from, and the fact that many other teams have those older guys now - I think it's easy to see why we are struggling. We simply don't have a ton of maturity.
Our core returning starters (James, Tanner, Hancock, Cumbest) combine for a career avg of .275. Those aren't exactly highly exciting stats for your "top returners." To me that says "role player" and not "go to guys." Add in that we currently have more inconsistent "role players" surrounding them, what do we really expect?
Thus far, the difference makers we've brought in to plug immediate holes have been just that, but in an atrocious way. Somebody has to get out of the funk somehow or it will be a long season.
Thus far, the difference makers we've brought in to plug immediate holes have been just that, but in an atrocious way. Somebody has to get out of the funk somehow or it will be a long season.
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Similar thing happened to us in 2014. We lose Renfroe and Frazier and we all expected someone out of Rea, Detz, Henderson, Pirtle, Frost and Bradford to replace them. Well, Pirtle stepped up (but not to level of the former two), Henderson and Bradford stayed the same, and Rea and Detz regressed. And we obviously had a regression at catcher after losing Ammarati and Slauter.
Losing a lights out MLB-talent starter in Graveman didn't help either, similarly as us losing Bednar. And funny enough, if you remember, we took Rubber Arm Mitchell out of the bullpen and made him the Friday night starter too.
We struggled early that year too, while Ole Miss had a veteran laden team. Our fans freaked out all year (including me). I don't care now, because we have a natty, and I understand that things are temporary and we have a ton of talented underclassmen who will eventually grow up, we just have to let them. 2014 had the same thing going on (Collins, Humphreys, Rooker, Hudson, Sexton). It's crazy the similarities from that year to this one, except this year, we are in a better situation in regards to overall talent. 2014 rode pitching and Pirtle to a regional berth.
Future is still very bright if people would just choose to see it. As far as this year, we will go only as far as the guys who will step up take us. Pitching isn't as good as 2014, but hitting COULD be better over the long haul (not saying much).
That’s really what it comes down to. James, Hancock, and Tanner are only hitting on par with where they were last year, which was good but not great. Only returnees showing improvement are Cumbest and McGowan (in very limited action).
Rowdey and TA accounted for a big percentage of our run production last year, and their replacements (especially at the CF lead off position) have not been remotely close.
I think the newcomers will figure things out, but it may be too late to host any regional by the time they do. Sims losing his first two starts was a fluke, we still have the starting pitching to compete every SEC weekend.
Rowdey and TA accounted for a big percentage of our run production last year, and their replacements (especially at the CF lead off position) have not been remotely close.
I think the newcomers will figure things out, but it may be too late to host any regional by the time they do. Sims losing his first two starts was a fluke, we still have the starting pitching to compete every SEC weekend.
Winning one, especially if you’ve never won one before in any sport in your whole school’s history. There is a substantial free pass for whatever after that first one.
Lot of folks need to chill the 17 out about whatever unfolds this year. In the past 9 years, we’ve gone from national runners up to dead last in the SEC in 2 years, and then all the way back up to SEC champs the very next season after that. Ups and downs happen…it will be fine as the ceiling of our program isn’t going anywhere. The days of the early 90’s LSU teams steroiding their way to 5 straight titles are gone and are never coming back.
Lot of folks need to chill the 17 out about whatever unfolds this year. In the past 9 years, we’ve gone from national runners up to dead last in the SEC in 2 years, and then all the way back up to SEC champs the very next season after that. Ups and downs happen…it will be fine as the ceiling of our program isn’t going anywhere. The days of the early 90’s LSU teams steroiding their way to 5 straight titles are gone and are never coming back.
I wonder if anyone was bitching in 1986. Because until now, that was considered the Golden Age of MSU baseball. We followed that up with a pretty good run from 1987-1990, in a brand new stadium.
We just lived the now without-question Golden Age, from 2016-2021. 1 SEC title, 5 Supers, 3 straight CWS, 1 title, and newly minted Thunder and Lightning (albeit for slightly different reasons). Anybody bitching loudly now, or even wanting any changes, should just be silenced and questioned for sanity.
Of course most of the posts here are just trolling. Going further on my previous posts, these are the first time CWS champions from the past 20 years:
2003 Rice - 2004 lost in their own regional
2006 Oregon State - 2007 repeat champs after a miraculous run (didn't host)
2008 Fresno State - 2009 lost in regional
2010 South Carolina - 2011 repeat champs as a national seed
2013 UCLA - 2014 miss postseason with losing record
2014 Vanderbilt - 2015 national runner-up
2015 Virginia - 2016 hosted but eliminated at home
2016 Coastal Carolina - 2017 didn't make postseason
2017 Florida - 2018 CWS
So you've got a less than 50% shot of really being elite again the following year. Not to mention the pressure and such our fanbase puts on itself. The only teams that were considered big time programs who had been there before were Rice, UCLA and Florida. 1 rose up again, 1 was average, 1 totally tanked.
We may very well tank this year. But who cares, we will be right back in the thick of things in 2023, we are recruited too well not to be. Countless examples of this. 2015-2016 for us, Arkansas in 2016 then nearly winning a title in 2018, etc. But I don't think we will. I think we will make a regional and be a dangerous team in the postseason that no one will want to play.
Our pitching is going to be fine. Landon and Cade are an outstanding 1-2 in the rotation. We will have a good chance to win those 2 games most weekends.
I think the biggest problem in our lineup is Kellum Clark. He was supposed to make the jump and mash this year. I really thought he might be our best hitter. And he’s just awful so far. Yeager looks bad. But so did Debrule early last year, so I expect he will also figure it out halfway through the year. But I really thought Kellum might make the jump to hitting .320 and 12 homers. Very disappointing.
I think the biggest problem in our lineup is Kellum Clark. He was supposed to make the jump and mash this year. I really thought he might be our best hitter. And he’s just awful so far. Yeager looks bad. But so did Debrule early last year, so I expect he will also figure it out halfway through the year. But I really thought Kellum might make the jump to hitting .320 and 12 homers. Very disappointing.
Winning the championship made the pressure on this season a lot lower than it would have been otherwise, I will for sure say that.
I don’t think our problems are as complicated as some people want to make them. We lost our entire starting rotation from the postseason run last year and even though our dominant closer is back, he is in a different role now. We lost our only two everyday players that hit over .300 last season, and one of them had one of the all time great seasons in program history. We frankly returned a lot of role players and assumed someone would step up and become the next Rooker, Mangum, or TA.
It hasn’t happened yet. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. But the fact is we’ve lost some legendary players in recent years and somehow replaced them with more legends in a small amount of time. Eventually we were bound to have a year or two where we don’t have one of those kind of guys. It may be this year.
I don’t think our problems are as complicated as some people want to make them. We lost our entire starting rotation from the postseason run last year and even though our dominant closer is back, he is in a different role now. We lost our only two everyday players that hit over .300 last season, and one of them had one of the all time great seasons in program history. We frankly returned a lot of role players and assumed someone would step up and become the next Rooker, Mangum, or TA.
It hasn’t happened yet. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. But the fact is we’ve lost some legendary players in recent years and somehow replaced them with more legends in a small amount of time. Eventually we were bound to have a year or two where we don’t have one of those kind of guys. It may be this year.
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