Why I still strongly support Cohen

[Coach34]

First, let's look take a surprising look at draft numbers and W/L numbers the last 5 years:

Team/ draft choices/ top 10 round draft choices/ SEC record

1. South Carolina 39 (12) 92-58
2. Vanderbilt 37 (15) 87-61
3. Mississippi 34 (15) 80-70
4. Florida 33 (9) 95-55
4. Auburn 33 (9) 66-84
6. UPig 32 (12) 79-69
7. Georgia 30 (9) 67-78
8. LSU 29 (13) 77-71
9. Kentucky 27 (11) 62-81
10. Alabama 23 (8) 78-71
11. Tennessee 22 (10) 55-93
12. State 21 (3) 53-94 (3 of the draft picks were Cohen's)


As you can sadly see, we have trailed the entire SEC in getting talented players- but where the huge gap comes in is with Top 10 round draft picks- otherwise known as upper level talent- and we just havent had that. The worst SEC team ahead of us still has had almost 3 times as many upper level talented players as us. Ed Easley, Aaron Weatherford, and Devin Jones are our only top 10 draft choices in the last 5 years. The talent gap between us and Mississippi is sickening

How bad has the pitching been? We have had only 4 pitchers drafted the last 5 years- Ricky Bowen- 43rd round, Tyler Whitney- 34th round, Forrest Moore- 38th round, and Devin Jones- 9th round...and the production from those pitchers was awful. You cant win in the SEC without talented arms.

I keep hearing "Year 4 for Cohen"- but that's really not true. He got the job in June, 2008 and recruiting was all but done. So his 1st team in 2009, was a gift from Ron Polk. And as you plainly see- had very little talent on it. So, we get to 2010- and Cohen's 1st recruits see the field. Overwhelmed jucos and freshmen, but still half a team of Polk's left with very little help from it. But Cohen turned that bunch into a winner in 2011 and made a Super Regional.

This June will be the first time a Cohen recruited Freshman can be drafted (but Cohen had 3 juco recruits drafted last season) - Chris Stratton will go in round 1 most likely, and CT Bradford will be drafted I'm sure. Graveman still a possibility also. So with 3 players from Cohen's 1st class already drafted, and more to come- you can see that he is starting to get more talent on campus.

So, while the Cohen haters spout "Year 4"- that's not really true. 1 year was with Ron Polk's players that had very little talent, and year 2 had only 1 recruiting class on it. And this program is a tougher sell than it used to be- we all understand that. This season is frustrating, but anybody that keeps up with baseball knew it would be coming in.

Dont jump ship yet- because when you jump ship, you get a shitload of "I told you so's" from me when I'm usually right when talking production from our teams. So, just be prepared next Spring...

 

[Coach34]

First, let's look take a surprising look at draft numbers and W/L numbers the last 5 years:

Team/ draft choices/ top 10 round draft choices/ SEC record

1. South Carolina 39 (12) 92-58
2. Vanderbilt 37 (15) 87-61
3. Mississippi 34 (15) 80-70
4. Florida 33 (9) 95-55
4. Auburn 33 (9) 66-84
6. UPig 32 (12) 79-69
7. Georgia 30 (9) 67-78
8. LSU 29 (13) 77-71
9. Kentucky 27 (11) 62-81
10. Alabama 23 (8) 78-71
11. Tennessee 22 (10) 55-93
12. State 21 (3) 53-94 (3 of the draft picks were Cohen's)


As you can sadly see, we have trailed the entire SEC in getting talented players- but where the huge gap comes in is with Top 10 round draft picks- otherwise known as upper level talent- and we just havent had that. The worst SEC team ahead of us still has had almost 3 times as many upper level talented players as us. Ed Easley, Aaron Weatherford, and Devin Jones are our only top 10 draft choices in the last 5 years. The talent gap between us and Mississippi is sickening

How bad has the pitching been? We have had only 4 pitchers drafted the last 5 years- Ricky Bowen- 43rd round, Tyler Whitney- 34th round, Forrest Moore- 38th round, and Devin Jones- 9th round...and the production from those pitchers was awful. You cant win in the SEC without talented arms.

I keep hearing "Year 4 for Cohen"- but that's really not true. He got the job in June, 2008 and recruiting was all but done. So his 1st team in 2009, was a gift from Ron Polk. And as you plainly see- had very little talent on it. So, we get to 2010- and Cohen's 1st recruits see the field. Overwhelmed jucos and freshmen, but still half a team of Polk's left with very little help from it. But Cohen turned that bunch into a winner in 2011 and made a Super Regional.

This June will be the first time a Cohen recruited Freshman can be drafted (but Cohen had 3 juco recruits drafted last season) - Chris Stratton will go in round 1 most likely, and CT Bradford will be drafted I'm sure. Graveman still a possibility also. So with 3 players from Cohen's 1st class already drafted, and more to come- you can see that he is starting to get more talent on campus.

So, while the Cohen haters spout "Year 4"- that's not really true. 1 year was with Ron Polk's players that had very little talent, and year 2 had only 1 recruiting class on it. And this program is a tougher sell than it used to be- we all understand that. This season is frustrating, but anybody that keeps up with baseball knew it would be coming in.

Dont jump ship yet- because when you jump ship, you get a shitload of "I told you so's" from me when I'm usually right when talking production from our teams. So, just be prepared next Spring...

 

[Coach34]

First, let's look take a surprising look at draft numbers and W/L numbers the last 5 years:

Team/ draft choices/ top 10 round draft choices/ SEC record

1. South Carolina 39 (12) 92-58
2. Vanderbilt 37 (15) 87-61
3. Mississippi 34 (15) 80-70
4. Florida 33 (9) 95-55
4. Auburn 33 (9) 66-84
6. UPig 32 (12) 79-69
7. Georgia 30 (9) 67-78
8. LSU 29 (13) 77-71
9. Kentucky 27 (11) 62-81
10. Alabama 23 (8) 78-71
11. Tennessee 22 (10) 55-93
12. State 21 (3) 53-94 (3 of the draft picks were Cohen's)


As you can sadly see, we have trailed the entire SEC in getting talented players- but where the huge gap comes in is with Top 10 round draft picks- otherwise known as upper level talent- and we just havent had that. The worst SEC team ahead of us still has had almost 3 times as many upper level talented players as us. Ed Easley, Aaron Weatherford, and Devin Jones are our only top 10 draft choices in the last 5 years. The talent gap between us and Mississippi is sickening

How bad has the pitching been? We have had only 4 pitchers drafted the last 5 years- Ricky Bowen- 43rd round, Tyler Whitney- 34th round, Forrest Moore- 38th round, and Devin Jones- 9th round...and the production from those pitchers was awful. You cant win in the SEC without talented arms.

I keep hearing "Year 4 for Cohen"- but that's really not true. He got the job in June, 2008 and recruiting was all but done. So his 1st team in 2009, was a gift from Ron Polk. And as you plainly see- had very little talent on it. So, we get to 2010- and Cohen's 1st recruits see the field. Overwhelmed jucos and freshmen, but still half a team of Polk's left with very little help from it. But Cohen turned that bunch into a winner in 2011 and made a Super Regional.

This June will be the first time a Cohen recruited Freshman can be drafted (but Cohen had 3 juco recruits drafted last season) - Chris Stratton will go in round 1 most likely, and CT Bradford will be drafted I'm sure. Graveman still a possibility also. So with 3 players from Cohen's 1st class already drafted, and more to come- you can see that he is starting to get more talent on campus.

So, while the Cohen haters spout "Year 4"- that's not really true. 1 year was with Ron Polk's players that had very little talent, and year 2 had only 1 recruiting class on it. And this program is a tougher sell than it used to be- we all understand that. This season is frustrating, but anybody that keeps up with baseball knew it would be coming in.

Dont jump ship yet- because when you jump ship, you get a shitload of "I told you so's" from me when I'm usually right when talking production from our teams. So, just be prepared next Spring...

 

[BillBraskyDOG]

You're "usually right"? You need a new hobby.

 

[patdog]

That's a full recruiting cycle in college baseball. And we're still not any better than we were under Polk II. In fact, we're really not even quite as good as we were then.

 

[cowman]

could not agree more coach!

 

[Shmuley]

It's time for him to produce next year or GTFO. Unfortunately, I don't trust the admin to make a better hire.

 

[Tds & Beer]

1. He is the coach at Mississippi State University and actually understands the game, unlike a former State coach who recently left. <div>2. He went to a super-regional last year</div><div>3. Teams who fire their coach every four years aren't successful.</div><div>4. It's not time to even bring up getting rid of him.</div>

 

[Coach34]

It's time for him to produce next year or GTFO. Unfortunately, I don't trust the admin to make a better hire.

to do with that? I totally agree about next year- and I think he answers the bell

 

[CadaverDawg]

For him always being right.

Patdog, you want to bring up the fact that it's a full recruiting cycle, but ignore the fact that he would have had to come in his first year and out recruited 11 teams that were in a better recruiting position than us, not to mention USM as well. Did you expect his first ever recruits at State to be top 10 round talent? That's pretty lofty expectations right there. I admit that I had hoped for a better record this year, but I'm realistic enough to know who Cohen is competing with on the field, and also on the recruiting trail, so I am not shocked that our record isn't where we all had hoped right now. He is bringing in talent to a very in attractive situation, and we are competing with the best. I don't know if Cohen will take us to the promise land, but realistic people that look at this situation realize it's still a little early to tell.

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

I am just curious about one thing. You give Polk no credit for our SR run last year, but you are still blaming him for us being awful this year, how exactly does that work?<div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div>

 

[Coach34]

you need to do some vocabulary research

 

[jackstefano]

I don't know if Cohen will take us to the promise land, but realistic people that look at this situation realize it's still a little early to tell.

He almost took MSU to the promised land last year, in just his third year. Looking forward, these young guys who are competing hard but coming up short this year will mature and start winning those close games in the next couple of years. Just seems to me that people are being a little trigger happy around here when it comes to Cohen.

 

[olemissbydamn]

Mindless repetitive excusing making for a coach, as opposed to mindless repetitive tearing down of a coach.

 

[OMlawdog]

show how good MSU basketball was when Stans took over. How many times have I read on here that Stans took over a program that had "just went" to a final four. And that the expectations for him should be high. Yet Cohen gets his full support despite the on field results that have clearly been worse than his predecessor.

Its funny the lengths Coach34 will go to in order to back a hire he likes, instead of a coach he doesn't like.

I wish he would just say, "Hey, I change the rules depending on whether I have come out for or against a coach".

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

Lane was drafted in the 9th round last year after Cohen ran him off. He would have been a junior this year. Nappi was drafted after he was run off. <div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div><div>
</div><div>Tyler Moore was drafted after the 10th round but he is in Triple A and about to make the bigs with the nats.</div><div>
</div><div>Mitch Moreland was drafted after the 10th round 5 years ago and he has been in the bigs for 3 years now. </div><div>
</div><div>Kolby Byrd was run off and got drafted in the 12th round last year, he would be a junior this year and I am sure we would all like to have his bat in this putrid lineup. </div><div>
</div><div>Hell Jared Wesson who Cohen didn't even use signed a NDFA contract and is in Double A right now with a chance to make the bigs. </div>

 

[BillBraskyDOG]

I'm just sad peaches spends so much of his free time researching these posts.

 

[Coach34]

I am just curious about one thing. You give Polk no credit for our SR run last year, but you are still blaming him for us being awful this year, how exactly does that work?<div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div>

I'm not really blaming Polk for us being average this year- we are average because we lost alot of starters from last season. I'm blaming Polk for the program being completely devoid of talent when Cohen took over forcing him to recruit juco heavy- to compare- Ricky Ray will have more actual talent than Cohen did. At least Ray will have some highly rated recruits

 

[oilypaws]

[No message]

 

[BillBraskyDOG]

There's no debate that polk left cohen with very little talent, but he did leave him with a player who was far better and more productive than anyone cohen has been able to recruit.

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

I guess it is all Mcmahon's fault that Polk's second round was not as good as his first. <div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div>

 

[gtowndawg]

When Cohen took the job he told someone very close to the program...like really, really close. This person happens to be close friends with my Dad. Anyway, John told him "give me two years, that's all I need to turn it around."

I'm really not for or against Cohen, I honestly mean that, but why is he so far off from even his own prediction? He knew what he had at that point. This was a week or so after he was hired. How could he have been so wrong?

 

[champ.sixpack]

With the exception injury-ridden Brownlee, every single one of our everyday starters are freshmen, sophomores, and juniors. And only 2 juniors at that, in Sam Frost and Mitch Slaughter (juco). Throw in Trey Porter as the DH, another junior, and it's easy to see why we're coming up short. Now, if he doesn't get it done next year with the majority of our starters being juniors, then I'll absolutely have my doubts.

 

[Coach34]

show how good MSU basketball was when Stans took over. How many times have I read on here that Stans took over a program that had "just went" to a final four. And that the expectations for him should be high. Yet Cohen gets his full support despite the on field results that have clearly been worse than his predecessor.

Its funny the lengths Coach34 will go to in order to back a hire he likes, instead of a coach he doesn't like.

I wish he would just say, "Hey, I change the rules depending on whether I have come out for or against a coach".

Ty Washington was drafted
Tang Hamilton wore an NBA jersey

and he also had some other very good players Marckell Patterson, Dietrick White, and others

You cant even compare the two situations

 

[Tds &amp; Beer]

You got any more brain busters for us?

 

[CadaverDawg]

I didn't reply to your post so I couldn't see the exact wording. "usually" I meant. I agree with your post though.

 

[patdog]

He knew what he wasgetting into.

 

[olemissbydamn]

With the exception injury-ridden Brownlee, every single one of our everyday starters are freshmen, sophomores, and juniors. And only 2 juniors at that, in Sam Frost and Mitch Slaughter (juco). Throw in Trey Porter as the DH, another junior, and it's easy to see why we're coming up short. Now, if he doesn't get it done next year with the majority of our starters being juniors, then I'll absolutely have my doubts.

The draft and leverage limits the number of seniors on any SEC team.

SC, the team you just faced, only had one SR in the lineup. Ole Miss only has two. LSU only has two. Arkansas didn't start any SRs.

 

[57stratdawg]

Lane was drafted in the 9th round last year after Cohen ran him off. He would have been a junior this year. Nappi was drafted after he was run off. <div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div><div>
</div><div>Tyler Moore was drafted after the 10th round but he is in Triple A and about to make the bigs with the nats.</div><div>
</div><div>Mitch Moreland was drafted after the 10th round 5 years ago and he has been in the bigs for 3 years now. </div><div>
</div><div>Kolby Byrd was run off and got drafted in the 12th round last year, he would be a junior this year and I am sure we would all like to have his bat in this putrid lineup. </div><div>
</div><div>Hell Jared Wesson who Cohen didn't even use signed a NDFA contract and is in Double A right now with a chance to make the bigs. </div>

Exactly. Goat say: They all left because they wouldnt see the field. You didn't even mention Ethan Bright and Luke Boyle. I would say 4 of the top 6 HS players in that class transferred - nothing to see here.

 

[OMlawdog]

Look MSU baseball may not have been talented when Cohen arrived, I will agree with you on that, but to say that the team would have put up the winning percentage that they put up the following four years is pretty tough to agree with.

Like I said, Polk's last year his SEC winning percentage was .300; Cohen's MSU SEC winning percentage is .327

 

[saltslugs]

You're getting your causality backwards. It's not that firing your coaches causes you to be a bad team--bad teams fire their coaches.<div>
</div><div>Keeping around a bad coach isn't going to help us succeed in any sport ever.</div>

 

[KurtRambis4]

that I support Cohen are;

1) He's recognized as one of the better hitting instructors in college.

2) He knows baseball and is very knowledgeable.

3) He wants to be at MSU and turn us back into the program we were in the 80's (even though that is virtually impossible).

4) He won't tolerated being outworked in recruiting by his staff.

5) He is a disciplinarian and won't allow foolishness.

I'm sure I missed a few, but those are the reasons I want John to succeed and support him.

 

[patdog]

6) He wins games.

Oh wait, I guess you didn't miss that after all.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Everybody is acting like this should have been a hands down quick fix where Cohen should have been able to walk in and recruits just flock to him.

The SEC currently has 6 teams ranked, and 4 in the top 10. It is like this every year, so how does everyone think we were supposed to be able to leapfrog all of these teams that have been good for a while? We have played 3 of our 5 series against top 17 teams, and one of the other series was @ Auburn who was actually playing good ball at the time. Who the 17 is everybody thinking we should have beaten this year so far? There's only 5 teams in the whole damn league that have above a .500 SEC record right now. You people are just being completely unrealistic and not looking at the facts. You want to take our SEC record and label us underachievers, yet we've only been favored in 1 SEC series, unless you want to say we should have won at Auburn. Quit bitching just to *****, and get your hand off the trigger of Cohen's job, and let things play out. Our fan base is 17ing atrocious.

 

[Coach34]

it's called rebuilding- they had taken the two years post Final Four to do that

Remember- Richard Williams didnt get fired for losing- everybody was expecting us to have a good team that coming season. But "Little Richard" decided to intervene and cost Williams his job- thus making Stansbury the coach instead of Williams

Polk stopped recruiting and let the program die- Richard Williams just banged a pom pom girl....huge difference

 

[Johnson85]

You're getting your causality backwards. It's not that firing your coaches causes you to be a bad team--bad teams fire their coaches.<div>
</div><div>Keeping around a bad coach isn't going to help us succeed in any sport ever.</div>

if progress is being made. I know some people aren't happy with Cohen, but to me he's not anywhere near the chopping block. He's upgrading the talent, he's proven he can coach in the postseason without derailing the team, and while the SEC record has been less than stellar, I think all the 1 run losses, while they might raise a question about whether we're losing close ones because of coaching, at least indicate that the team is getting closer. I think the injuries also give him some leeway.

And all these people saying next year is the year need to be prepared to be disappointed. We may breakthrough next year, but with the pitching we're losing, I could see the team improving enough that Cohen's job will still be safe without a lot of the fans on here being happy with the status of the program.

Sometimes you just get stuck in a lose/lose situation, with a coach that's too good to fire but not good enough to get you where you want to go (e.g., Stansbury for the last half of his tenure). There's no easy way out, but I believe that if you don't have a job that people are going to jump at, you do more harm by having an itchy trigger finger (although maybe the SEC has enough advantages in baseball that every job is a desirable enough job to have an itchy trigger finger).

 

[tenureplan]

nm</p>

 

[saltslugs]

I was just pointing out (what I think is) a flaw in reasoning.<div>
</div><div>
</div>

 

[alabamadog]

Nappi didn't field well enough to start in the field. Duffy, Sneed, and Freeman were all better at DH than him. He transferred to a Division II school because he wasn't going to play here. <div>
<div>I don't see what Moreland and Moore have to do with Cohen because they never played on any of his teams. </div><div>
</div><div>We will never know how Byrd and Lane would have done, but they didn't do well in rookie ball last year. Byrd has an OBP of around .250 and a slugging percentage of .320. Lane has a career ERA of over 8. </div><div>
</div><div>Wesson has done well for a 29th round pick, but his stats don't show that he is going to be in the MLB. He had 15 appearances his senior year, and didn't pitch much at first because he was injured, so I wouldn't say Cohen didn't use him. It is interesting that he is a starting pitcher in AA and was a reliever here. I guess that was because he was hurt in the beginning of the year.</div><div>
</div><div>Out of all of these guys, Byrd and Lane might have helped. I don't remember specifically why Ethan Bright left, and I read on here that Bole had to leave because of grades. I googled his name and couldn't find anything about him playing somewhere besides Chipola Community College. He did get better throughout the one season he was here, so he might have helped out if he hadn't transferred.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div> </div>

 

[DudyDog]

Let me refresh your memory with some scores from Polk's last team.<div>
</div><div>"<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">That's a full recruiting cycle in college baseball. And we're still not any better than we were under Polk II. In fact, we're really not even quite as good as we were then." - patdog.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">
</span></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Ron Polk's last team at MSU:</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">
</span></font></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">Arkansas 15 MSU 10</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">LSU 16 MSU 4</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">LSU 15 MSU 6</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">Auburn 12 MSU 2</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">Auburn 11 MSU 4</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">Alabama 21 MSU 7</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">Vandy 16 MSU 0</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">Vandy 15 MSU 8</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">Kentucky 13 MSU 4</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; ">South Carolina 10 MSU 3</span></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">South Carolina 9 MSU 1</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Ole Miss 11 MSU 6</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Ole Miss 15 MSU 6</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Now for the powerhouse teams:</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Middle Tn. State 20 MSU 5</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Arkansas Little Rock 9 MSU 5</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Air Force 6 MSU 4</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">North Florida 11 MSU 6</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">North Florida 17 MSU 9</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">
</span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Now, with a straight face, tell us all once again that there has been no improvement over Cohen's tenure. </span></font></div><div><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px;">
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