Wow...I really cant get over that stat
- Thread starter Coach34
- Start date
Pretty sure he is talking about SEC divison titles. I think we got one of our infamous Co-championships with LSU in 05. Of course they won the tie-breaker but we won the banner. Barring a huge meltdown, we should win the west outright this year.....which isn't saying much.
so that's not saying much. It won't mean anything to me unless we at least finish in the Top 3 overall in the SEC.
but doesn't go far in postseason and you gripe...Polk doesn't win the league but goes to the college world series and you gripe.
What would you consider a successful season in baseball and basketball? Further what is your yearly standard for the big three programs at MSU? Honestly I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but I have yet to see you give a compliment to any of the coaches no matter what they do without some caveat.
captaindawg said:
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and contrary to Stormwhiners lying statement (you're welcome Farmer), they never change:
Football- compete consistently for bowl games and win the West every 5 years. A bowl game is a successful season. Not one time have I said we didnt have a successful season in football. I have mentioned once or twice about how pathetic our offense is and how it was probably an abberation due to the defensive TD's. I've also said that if Crooms would loosen up and quit being so ultra-conservative, he could possibly be a successful SEC coach. I doubt this happens
Basketball- A successful season is making the NCAA Tourney or winning the overall conference title. A great season is Sweet 16 or better.
Baseball- A successful season is winning a regional and winning the SEC title. A great season is making the World series</p>
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If we win an SEC West title in basketball or baseball its a good thing, but cant be considered great. An overall title would be great. The reason I say that is because you cant get all that excited when you win the West, yet have the 4th or 5th best record in the conference as has happened to some teams. It also could be the case in baseball this season </p>
I'll remember that the next time there is a discussion about our lack of a deep tourney run.
I also find it amusing that you defended Brady so fiercely yet he has had far more unsuccessful seasons than Rick Stansbury going by your standards.</p>
I also find it amusing that you defended Brady so fiercely yet he has had far more unsuccessful seasons than Rick Stansbury going by your standards.</p>
Coach34 said:
This goes back to the 2004 debate. Who had a better season, us or Bama? We won the SEC outright, were a #2 seed in the NCAAs and lost in the second round to Xavier. Bama was 8-8 in the league, made the tournament as an 8 seed, then made a run to the Elite Eight before they got blasted by UConn.</p>Personally, I don't think 8-8 in the league and an Elite Eight is a GREAT season, but neither is winning the league and flaming out in the second round. Both of them are disappointing in their own way. And given my choice, I would not trade that 2004 season for Bama's. I guess because I was at three or four of the road games I am a bit partial. I am sure the Bama fans would rather have their season, and rightfully so. I would gladly take one of those next year with an 8-8 SEC team that makes a run to the Elite Eight.
A truly great season for us in my opinion would be to go at least 12-4 in conference (regardless of where that puts us in the overall standings) <span style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline;">AND</span> to advance to at least the Sweet 16. Winning the overall SEC is gravy. Playing on Saturday or Sunday in the SEC Tournament is gravy. Anything past the Sweet 16 is gravy.
I think basketball expectations change more than football or baseball on a yearly basis. Teams are so fluid these days that you can win several games a year based off what other people lose rather than how much you improve.
and its just a matter of what you believe. I believe for recruiting purposes and program strength the Elite 8 does more for your program. We've seen time after time an deep NCAA run enhance a players draft status. That is easy to see to a recruit. Not to mention the national exposure you get from CBS and newspapers around the nation.
Give me an Elite 8 over a West title every time.
"I think basketball expectations change more than football or baseball on a yearly basis. Teams are so fluid these days that you can win several games a year based off what other people lose rather than how much you improve."
almost agree completely, except I think basketball and baseball are equal in that respect now. Lots more turnover now than it used to be in baseball. Hell, look at us from last year to this year
Give me an Elite 8 over a West title every time.
"I think basketball expectations change more than football or baseball on a yearly basis. Teams are so fluid these days that you can win several games a year based off what other people lose rather than how much you improve."
almost agree completely, except I think basketball and baseball are equal in that respect now. Lots more turnover now than it used to be in baseball. Hell, look at us from last year to this year
I think most on here would take an elite 8 over a West title but it looked like you were inferring that you would take an elite 8 over an Overall SEC title. Those are two entirely different animals. UK has more SEC titles than all the other SEC teams combined so to nab an overall is a big freaking deal moreso than getting a good draw and beating Kent State and Southern Illinois to reach an elite 8.
Coach34 said:
Agreed, but that wasn't the comparison I made. It was to an SEC Championship, and I still would not necessarily trade an Elite 8 for an SEC Championship. I would take either, but a fluke Elite 8 like Bama's has done next to nothing for their program. That's not saying the SEC championship has sprung us into the national elite either, but I don't see the Elite 8 as the automatic recruiting juice that you imply. As the board has discussed this year, winning games helps your seed and improves your chance to make a deep run, so the SEC championship should do that. It didn't work that way for us in 2004, but I would take my chances every year as SEC Champ to get to the Sweet 16 over being an 8 seed and getting there.</p>I also am having trouble coming up with this apparently long list of players who improve their draft status with a deep NCAA run. It seems to like the mock drafts start coming out in February or so and the same players on it then are the ones shaking Stern's hand. Who are you thinking of?
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Basketball:
Final Four >>> Overall SEC Title >> Elite 8 > SEC Tournament Championship > Sweet 16 > 2nd Rd > 1st Round > SEC West Title
Baseball:
CWS >>> Overall SEC Title >> Super Regional Participant > SEC Tournament Championship > Regional Participant
The ONLY thing i would ever trade an overall SEC Title for is a trip to THE national stage (Omaha or Final Four). Even as far as recruiting goes, i would think that an SEC Championship trophy and the championship rings would weigh more to a recruit than making a fluke trip to the Elite 8. I guarantee you that UT will have an easier time recruiting this year than Davidson will or even an MSU or Arkansas would have had one of us lucked up and gone to the Elite 8.
There is NO WAY i would trade our 2004 basketball season for Bama's.
BFB
Final Four >>> Overall SEC Title >> Elite 8 > SEC Tournament Championship > Sweet 16 > 2nd Rd > 1st Round > SEC West Title
Baseball:
CWS >>> Overall SEC Title >> Super Regional Participant > SEC Tournament Championship > Regional Participant
The ONLY thing i would ever trade an overall SEC Title for is a trip to THE national stage (Omaha or Final Four). Even as far as recruiting goes, i would think that an SEC Championship trophy and the championship rings would weigh more to a recruit than making a fluke trip to the Elite 8. I guarantee you that UT will have an easier time recruiting this year than Davidson will or even an MSU or Arkansas would have had one of us lucked up and gone to the Elite 8.
There is NO WAY i would trade our 2004 basketball season for Bama's.
BFB
What absolutely kills me about this is that you were very vocal after the Auburn win saying how Henig going down was the best thing that could happen to us, because it forced us to be more conservative and ride our best player (Dixon) to victory. After the season proved you right, you change your tune on that, saying how pathetic our offense is and we need to throw more, even to the point of making an idiot out of yourself after the Arkansas game, in which throwing more got us points and yardage, yes, but turnovers and ultimately a loss.
You ***** about one thing, and then when circumstances change so that what you want happens, you take the opposite approach, and ***** about it from that perspective. It's called bitching for the sake of bitching.
Oh and another thing, if you expect football to win the West every 5 years, you're ridiculous. We all want them to, but to expect it as some kind of measuring stick is simply not based in reality, which makes your posts on the sport not based in reality.
while I was very happy Henig got hurt, you will never, ever, ever hear me say anything is a good thing that makes Crooms even more conservative. Ever.
"Oh and another thing, if you expect football to win the West every 5 years, you're ridiculous. We all want them to, but to expect it as some kind of measuring stick is simply not based in reality, which makes your posts on the sport not based in reality."
Then why have a football team? When Jackie was here, we felt like we had a chance to win it once every 3 years, why not every 5 now?
"Oh and another thing, if you expect football to win the West every 5 years, you're ridiculous. We all want them to, but to expect it as some kind of measuring stick is simply not based in reality, which makes your posts on the sport not based in reality."
Then why have a football team? When Jackie was here, we felt like we had a chance to win it once every 3 years, why not every 5 now?
Then you wanted a true freshman or Riddell to sling it as much as Henig? That makes sense. Put the ball in the hands of our best player, and shorten the game vs. let somebody who had never played SEC football at that point sling it around the field. Now, I know you're joking.
We won the West one time in Jackie's tenure. I don't know where this 3 year number came from. We had a string of a few seasons where we were in the hunt for the West in November, but I, nor most of the rest of the sane world, ever "expected to win the West once every 3 years" under anybody. That's just ridiculous. You must be confusing us with LSU.
We won the West one time in Jackie's tenure. I don't know where this 3 year number came from. We had a string of a few seasons where we were in the hunt for the West in November, but I, nor most of the rest of the sane world, ever "expected to win the West once every 3 years" under anybody. That's just ridiculous. You must be confusing us with LSU.
"Then you wanted a true freshman or Riddell to sling it as much as Henig?"
Ridell showed he was more than capable of throwing the football before he got hurt. And Carroll showed he could make better decisions and take care of the ball better than Money Mike. We ran the ball 80 times and threw it 64 in our first two games. Thats not exactly "slinging it". In todays college football. that is called a "normal offense". There are QB's every year that step on the field as freshmens and function at QB. Not to mention Juco transfers.
"I don't know where this 3 year number came from. We had a string of a few seasons where we were in the hunt for the West in November, but I, nor most of the rest of the sane world, ever "expected to win the West once every 3 years" under anybody."
Say what you will, but from 1991-2001, most State fans felt like we had a chance to win the West year in and year out. I hate you didnt share in our excitement. And that wasnt being ridculous, that was watching how our team performed on the field. We need to get another coach that can put us in that position again.</p>
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Ridell showed he was more than capable of throwing the football before he got hurt. And Carroll showed he could make better decisions and take care of the ball better than Money Mike. We ran the ball 80 times and threw it 64 in our first two games. Thats not exactly "slinging it". In todays college football. that is called a "normal offense". There are QB's every year that step on the field as freshmens and function at QB. Not to mention Juco transfers.
"I don't know where this 3 year number came from. We had a string of a few seasons where we were in the hunt for the West in November, but I, nor most of the rest of the sane world, ever "expected to win the West once every 3 years" under anybody."
Say what you will, but from 1991-2001, most State fans felt like we had a chance to win the West year in and year out. I hate you didnt share in our excitement. And that wasnt being ridculous, that was watching how our team performed on the field. We need to get another coach that can put us in that position again.</p>
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Has Google not found a list of players who improved their draft status by being on a team who made an Elite Eight run? Because I am still waiting to hear who they are.
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