Write-up about the Razorbacks' shortcomings.

[biguglyjoe]

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<span class="headline">There are a lot of missing numbers for Hogs this year</span>
</p><span class="byline">by harry king</span>
<span class="byline">Thursday, August 7, 2008 2:24 PM CDT</span>
Aside from a winning lottery ticket, this sequence of six numbers could be an in-state favorite: 3, 4, 23, 33, 80, 85.

Those are the new uniform numbers that Arkansas football fans are most likely to memorize immediately. Numerically, they belong to Joe Adams, Jarius Wright, De'Anthony Curtis, Dennis Johnson, Chris Gragg, and Greg Childs and they are joined at the hip.

Each is a home-grown freshman who plays either running back or wide receiver, skill positions where opportunity abounds.

Put together after spring practice, the depth chart in the UA media guide lists Marques Wade-Rod Coleman, Carlton Salters-Lucas Miller, and London Crawford-Reggie Fish 1-2 at the three receiver spots. Their stats are bland.

Suspended for the first two games of the season, Wade did not catch a pass as a freshman. Coleman has caught one pass in two years. Salters caught four last year. Miller has started four games in two years and has caught 13 passes. Crawford has the same number of receptions while starting two more games. Fish has started two games in three years and has caught 10 passes. <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="310" align="left" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="center" align="middle" width="310" colspan="2">

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Those with rose-colored glasses will say the numbers are slim because the Razorbacks rarely threw. My money is on Adams, Wright, Gragg, and Childs, "Come on down."

At running back, Michael Smith and Brandon Barnett are 1-2. There is some credence to the fact that Smith's time was limited by Darren McFadden and Felix Jones, but he's only 5-foot-7, 173 pounds, and punishing running backs is a joyous prerequisite for membership in the Southeastern Conference.

Both Curtis (5-10, 205) and Johnson (5-7, 195) are much stouter.

"In both of those positions we'll have to help from freshmen," Petrino said during SEC Media Days. "We'll have to be lining up a few true freshmen there and letting them play, and they'll have to get better as the year goes on."</p>

As always, the expectations of Razorback fans expand exponentially when the player is an Arkie.

The day before Petrino spoke to the media, Alabama coach Nick Saban addressed that very topic. " ... someone else's expectations of what you should accomplish, especially if it's defined in results, can create a tremendous amount of frustration which could affect how you improve and how you develop as a player because frustration is not something that's gonna help you," he said.

Other than running back and wide receiver, Arkansas has other obvious shortcomings, including linebacker. In fact, Elston Forte is listed at the starter on one side and the backup on the other side. The incoming class includes three linebackers, but it is much more difficult for a wide-eyed 18-year-old to step in there than it is at a skill position where instinct can carry the day.

Arkansas' schedule is difficult, but no more so than many others in the SEC. For instance, LSU has Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina from the Eastern Division while Tennessee has Auburn, Alabama, and Mississippi State from the other side.</p>

Practice begins on Monday for the Razorbacks and the opener is less than four weeks away. The fans are ready. So is the media. As for the team, I keep thinking about a Jerry Reed refrain in his ditty about hauling beer from Texarkana to Atlanta: "We've got a long way to go and a short time to get there."

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[biguglyjoe]

<table cellspacing="5" cellpadding="5" width="95%" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="text" valign="top" align="left" width="100%"> <div id="fullstory">

<span class="headline">There are a lot of missing numbers for Hogs this year</span>
</p><span class="byline">by harry king</span>
<span class="byline">Thursday, August 7, 2008 2:24 PM CDT</span>
Aside from a winning lottery ticket, this sequence of six numbers could be an in-state favorite: 3, 4, 23, 33, 80, 85.

Those are the new uniform numbers that Arkansas football fans are most likely to memorize immediately. Numerically, they belong to Joe Adams, Jarius Wright, De'Anthony Curtis, Dennis Johnson, Chris Gragg, and Greg Childs and they are joined at the hip.

Each is a home-grown freshman who plays either running back or wide receiver, skill positions where opportunity abounds.

Put together after spring practice, the depth chart in the UA media guide lists Marques Wade-Rod Coleman, Carlton Salters-Lucas Miller, and London Crawford-Reggie Fish 1-2 at the three receiver spots. Their stats are bland.

Suspended for the first two games of the season, Wade did not catch a pass as a freshman. Coleman has caught one pass in two years. Salters caught four last year. Miller has started four games in two years and has caught 13 passes. Crawford has the same number of receptions while starting two more games. Fish has started two games in three years and has caught 10 passes. <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="310" align="left" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="center" align="middle" width="310" colspan="2">

</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="main_color" valign="center" align="middle" width="300" height="20"> <div class="advertisement"> ADVERTISEMENT </div> </td> <td valign="center" align="middle" width="10">

</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="center" align="middle" width="310" colspan="2">

</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="center" align="middle" width="300">

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Those with rose-colored glasses will say the numbers are slim because the Razorbacks rarely threw. My money is on Adams, Wright, Gragg, and Childs, "Come on down."

At running back, Michael Smith and Brandon Barnett are 1-2. There is some credence to the fact that Smith's time was limited by Darren McFadden and Felix Jones, but he's only 5-foot-7, 173 pounds, and punishing running backs is a joyous prerequisite for membership in the Southeastern Conference.

Both Curtis (5-10, 205) and Johnson (5-7, 195) are much stouter.

"In both of those positions we'll have to help from freshmen," Petrino said during SEC Media Days. "We'll have to be lining up a few true freshmen there and letting them play, and they'll have to get better as the year goes on."</p>

As always, the expectations of Razorback fans expand exponentially when the player is an Arkie.

The day before Petrino spoke to the media, Alabama coach Nick Saban addressed that very topic. " ... someone else's expectations of what you should accomplish, especially if it's defined in results, can create a tremendous amount of frustration which could affect how you improve and how you develop as a player because frustration is not something that's gonna help you," he said.

Other than running back and wide receiver, Arkansas has other obvious shortcomings, including linebacker. In fact, Elston Forte is listed at the starter on one side and the backup on the other side. The incoming class includes three linebackers, but it is much more difficult for a wide-eyed 18-year-old to step in there than it is at a skill position where instinct can carry the day.

Arkansas' schedule is difficult, but no more so than many others in the SEC. For instance, LSU has Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina from the Eastern Division while Tennessee has Auburn, Alabama, and Mississippi State from the other side.</p>

Practice begins on Monday for the Razorbacks and the opener is less than four weeks away. The fans are ready. So is the media. As for the team, I keep thinking about a Jerry Reed refrain in his ditty about hauling beer from Texarkana to Atlanta: "We've got a long way to go and a short time to get there."

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[rebelrouseri]

out by the end of the season:

but he's only 5-foot-7, 173 pounds, and punishing running backs is a joyous prerequisite for membership in the Southeastern Conference.

Both Curtis (5-10, 205) and Johnson (5-7, 195) are much stouter.

At least two of them are so short the dline won't be able to find them. The 5'7" 173 guy is going to end up in a body bag if he gets a lot of carries.

 

[biguglyjoe]

**

 

[thunderclap]

it couldn't happen to a nicer group of people.

 

[patdog]

Houston Nutt completes the circle. He took over a bad program, made it better, then left it in the same shape it was in before he got there.</p>

 

[RebelBruiser]

I really think Nutt just about maximized Arkansas's current potential. Despite what Arkansas fans believe, they are not in position to compete nationally. They have a good enough program to occasionally compete for SEC titles if the cards fall out right, but they aren't going to consistently be able to be there like a Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, LSU, or Auburn.

In my eyes, as far as potential, they are clearly the 7th best program in the SEC. That will allow them to occasionally have a run or two where they are competing with the best in the league because a few programs are down while their program is up, but they will not be able to do it consistently. I do think Petrino will have success there if he sticks around, but I don't think it'll be a whole lot better. If he sticks around for 10 years, he'll have a handful of bad years mixed in with the good.

 

[Goat Holder]

but he could have had so much more. There is alot of talent that comes out of Arkansas that gets overlooked because they go elsewhere. I never could understand why Nutt un-learned recruiting when he got to Arky. He really only got the guys that grew up Arkansas fans.

If you take a guy that's aggressive on the recruiting trail, he can win big at F'ville. They have the money, and they win in basketball and football. Their facilities are damn nice. They just can't get many people outside of Arkansas to come there. So there's no room for error with the Arkansas prospects.

Think about it, Nutt could have Mustain, Williams, and that RB that went to USC on his team right now with all those big linemen that went elsewhere a couple of years ago. Couple that in with the solid 3 star types from Texas and you've got a team.

 

[RebelBruiser]

I compare Arkansas's program to UT's for three reasons.

1) They both are the only real show in state, and therefore they both get the pick of the litter for a lot of the in state prospects.

2) However, both states do not produce enough D-1 talent to build a championship program on in state talent alone, unlike Louisiana.

3) The both are in a far corner of the state and therefore, they don't have quite the pull across the entire state. For Arkansas, they don't have as much of an in state pull with players from Eastern Arkansas. For UT, they don't have a huge pull with prospects from West Tennessee.

The big difference between their two programs is that UT is able to use its tradition to recruit top prospects nationally. At Arkansas, you have to recruit regionally for your out of state talent, and that means going into Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, and Missouri for players. That's why UT is able to have a nationally recognized program, while Arkansas is a mid-tier SEC program.

Maybe I'm wrong about Arkansas, but I just don't see their overall program as being better than 7th in the SEC as far as overall potential. Petrino will likely have success at Arkansas, but I still contend that he'll have a handful of bad years like Nutt did if he sticks around long enough.

 

[Goat Holder]

2) However, both states do not produce enough D-1 talent to build a championship program on in state talent alone, unlike Louisiana.

but I think you can work around this. They are fortunate to have Texas right next door. Missouri produces alot of players too. I think you can build a good foundation with solid players (even the ones that UT and A&M overlook) then lock door your game breaking guys from instate.

3) The both are in a far corner of the state and therefore, they don't have quite the pull across the entire state. For Arkansas, they don't have as much of an in state pull with players from Eastern Arkansas. For UT, they don't have a huge pull with prospects from West Tennessee.

This is true, many guys I knew in college came to State and UM because they were actually closer to them than Arkansas. I think a good recruiter can capitalize on the whole "home state" thing though. </p>

To win big, I think Arkansas would have to hire a Nick Saban type OR hire Eddie O as an assistant.</p>

 

[Agentdog]

He did a good job there. Bruiser's take on the Pig program is dead on......I think.

However, the state of Arkansas does NOT produce a lot of talent. It produces some but not near what MS or AL does. After the Cobbs, Jones, and McFads, there is a sharp drop off. Nutt did a good job of going into Texas to grab players.</p>

 

[patdog]

Nutt did a good job overall at Arkansas (about as good as they could reasonably expect) and I think he'll do a good job at Mississippi too. But I don't think he'll do as good at Mississippi as he did at Arkansas.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

nm

 

[RebelBruiser]

He did a good job there. Bruiser's take on the Pig program is dead on......I think.

However, the state of Arkansas does NOT produce a lot of talent. It produces some but not near what MS or AL does. After the Cobbs, Jones, and McFads, there
is a sharp drop off. Nutt did a good job of going into Texas to grab players.</p>

</p>

The one thing I'll say is that it's hard to get a true grasp on the status of Arkansas's program in this current landscape of college football because they've had only one coach for the last 10 years. It's hard to completely be able to say that they are better or worse as a program than what he gave them, because you can't really know. Based on the history of their program, the recruiting base, and the money in the program, I think they are middle of the pack, but maybe the program does have more potential than he got out of it. At the same time, maybe he was overachieving for what Arkansas is capable of doing.

We'll definitely find out with Petrino if he sticks around. Like him or not, he's a good football coach. If he can take them to a consistently higher level, then we'll know Nutt was underachieving.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Nutt did a good job overall at Arkansas (about as good as they could reasonably expect) and I think he'll do a good job at Mississippi too. But I
don't think he'll do as good at Mississippi as he did at Arkansas.

</p>

You're probably right about that, unless some programs fall off, or unless some bad coaching hires happen. When he took over at Arkansas, Auburn and Ole Miss had both been on probation recently. Both were rebuilding. LSU was still struggling, pre-Saban. And Alabama was getting ready to go on a pretty bad probation and a subsequent coaching merry-go-round. So, it was a good time to be coaching in the SEC West. Given that, and the fact that our program is probably a half step below Arkansas's in potential, he will probably have a tough time doing better at Ole Miss than he did at Arkansas.

I remember that in your 1999 season, the best teams in the SEC West outside of MSU were Ole Miss, Alabama, and Arkansas. That has done a complete 180 since then with Auburn and LSU basically dominating the West ever since.

 

[Goat Holder]

nm

 

[Goat Holder]

then get the roster filled with guys from Texas and Arkansas, it'd be alright. If I was a coach who was hungry, with everything I've heard about Fayetteville, Arkansas would be an enticing job. Just my opinion.

 

[olemissbydamn]

There is alot of talent that comes out of Arkansas that gets overlooked because they go elsewhere.

Think about it, Nutt could have Mustain, Williams, and that RB that went to USC on his team right now with all those big linemen that went elsewhere a couple of years ago.

2009- Rivals only shows 8 prospects 3* or better. 5 three stars, 2 four stars, and 1 five star.
2008- only 13 three star or better. 8 three stars (one of which went to Ark St.), 5 four stars and no 5 stars. Nutt signed every 3* or better player except one who went to Wisconsin, and the one who went to Ark St. He didn't offer this kid.
2007- Was a good class. It was also the class after Mustain and the Springdale crew. The top 20 players in Ark were 3* or better. 14 three star, 5 four star, and 0 five star. Aubrun got the top 2 prospects and SC got the 3rd best prospect. The only other instate players Nutt didn't get were a TE who went to NC (Nutt had already gotten 2 higher rated instate TE). Paul Henry couldn't qualify (signed with Ark St.). They other guys who didn't sign with Ark weren't offered. Cam Baker was the exception. He was offered and signed with Memphis.
2006- Only the top 10 prospects in Ark rated 3* or better. Nutt got all of them but 3. 2 of the 3 he didn't pick up weren't offered. Notre Dame got the one prospect who was offered.

http://arkansas.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=2220

So, as you can see, he was getting the best players from Ark that he wanted. Ziemba, Burns, and Green being the exceptions. No coach bats 100% in his own state. Burns didn't want to sign to play QB behind Mustain. I don't blame him for going to Ark.

Mustain & Williams did sign with Ark. We won't revisit that ****. Some here have changed their tune now that Nutt is at Ark, but the opinion most of us had at the time was that Mustain and his family were idiots.</p>

 

[8dog]

they signed 5 4stars according to rivals last Feb that were from Ark. They usually get their pick of the litter in that State, and I doubt they have as many kids fail to qualify as MS does. Not to mention that they can dip into Texas. Id much rather be an Ark Univ. recruiting in Ark than a MS univ reruiting in MS.

 

[eckie1]

Who's to say that education in AR isn't THE reason they have such a miniscule amount of players every year? Schools aren't any better in AR compared to MS. I'd rather have 50 or more players to choose from each year than 10;

 

[Goat Holder]

Nutt didn't sign anybody in 2008. Not for Arkansas anyway.

I've said in this thread twice that I wouldn't try to make a whole team of strictly Arkansas guys, but rather players from surrounding states as well. But I do think you can get your game changers from Arkansas. Nutt got some of them, lost out on others. I personally believe a better recruiter could have done better. And you're not going to go into Oklahoma and beat OU and same for Texas. Felix Jones wasn't a 5 star or anything getting courted by OU.

Mustain and his family were idiots. They were idiots for the way they acted, one, and for listening to the ******** about Malzahn. The Springdale trio never really wanted to go to Arkansas anyway.

There's a reason I equate Nutt to Stansbury. Both can win and are good coaches, who use their best players. But they aren't really good managers of the big egos.

 

[8dog]

I don't really understand your point.

And MS doesn't provide 50 players to choose from.

 

[olemissbydamn]

Nutt didn't sign anybody in 2008. Not for Arkansas anyway.

I've said in this thread twice that I wouldn't try to make a whole team of strictly Arkansas guys, but rather players from surrounding states as well. But I do think you can get your game changers from Arkansas. Nutt got some of them, lost out on others. I personally believe a better recruiter could have done better. And you're not going to go into Oklahoma and beat OU and same for Texas. Felix Jones wasn't a 5 star or anything getting courted by OU.

Mustain and his family were idiots. They were idiots for the way they acted, one, and for listening to the ******** about Malzahn. The Springdale trio never really wanted to go to Arkansas anyway.

There's a reason I equate Nutt to Stansbury. Both can win and are good coaches, who use their best players. But they aren't really good managers of the big egos.

Earlier you said: There is alot of talent that comes out of Arkansas that gets overlooked because they go elsewhere. I never could understand why Nutt un-learned recruiting when he got to Arky.
</p>
I merely pointed out that the instate talent wasn't "going elsewhere" as you stated. Nutt lost out on 3 players blue chip instate players over the last several years. Ziemba being the big loss to AU. Burns didn't want to follow Mustain, can't blame Nutt for losing him. Green was plucked by USC...who can pretty much get whoever they want from anywhere. Everyone else read your post the same way I did. You tried to say that Ark produces lots of talent and Nutt wasn't getting them. That just isn't so. Now you are changing your arguement.

You are right. Nutt didn't "sign" anyone in 08. However with 2 months until signing day he already had 3 of the top 5 Ark players commited.

It doesn't matter if they now say they didn't want to go to Arkansas. They all signed with Arkansas. How do you come up with "they never really wanted to go to Ark"? Do you talk with them? Why did they sign then?

The only ego that got in the way was Mustain's. However I understand why you want to believe otherwise now.

 

[eckie1]

i.e., to get a scholarship offer you have to a) make it to your final year of high school and b) have at least an outside shot at graduating. Not to mention maintaining good enough grades and test scores to even get in. I find it hard to believe that a state that is only a little smaller than ours isn't even competitive with us when it comes to producing talent. As for not producing 50 players... we have had about as many on the Rivals DB before. I'm on my cell phone and am not about to look it up on this +@%*#*% thing.

 

[Xenomorph]

He took over a bad program, made it better, then left it in the same shape it was in before he got there.

I've heard this theme somewhere before. I'm sure of it. Lemme see....

 

[8dog]

scholarship offer is irrelevant. My point is that while MS produces more talent, that talent fails to qualify at a higher rate than probably every other state.

So if MS produces 20 SEC caliber players to Ark's 10, the difference b/w the two states is narrowed when several more MS don't qualify. That's the general point.

Add this to the fact that there is no instate rival in Ark and Bama, AU, LSU and TN do not, year in and year out, come into the state to pick off a few of the top 15 and recruiting in the State of Ark isn't as bad as people like to think it is.

 

[Goat Holder]

Quit trying to act like I'm trying to downplay Nutt because he's at Ole Miss.

Nutt lost out on 3 players blue chip instate players over the last several years. Ziemba being the big loss to AU. Burns didn't want to follow Mustain, can't blame Nutt for losing him. Green was plucked by USC...

What if he'd lost out on Matt Jones and Darren McFadden? That was the point of my original post, no room for error in recruiting the Arkansas players.

It doesn't matter if they now say they didn't want to go to Arkansas. They all signed with Arkansas. How do you come up with "they never really wanted to go to Ark"? Do you talk with them? Why did they sign then?

Yeah, and see what happened. Look, if Nutt could still be at Arkansas right now, he would be. That's all there really is to say. Why did they transfer after most of them got playing time?

The only ego that got in the way was Mustain's. However I understand why you want to believe otherwise now.

All 5* QBs have egos. I guess I only realize it because I'm a State fan who hates Ole Miss.