2022 World Cup - USA team thread

[kgilbert78]

I may like that system. Do the pro club pay the kids? Or is it like the college system, where some kids pay to be on youth teams and some get schollies?

More that they take care of the kids--schooling, room and board, etc. [but there's a lot of levels where kids do join a club--these are *real* clubs with clubhouses, etc.--which people pay to be a member of] At some point they do graduate to a pro environment. Often the club fields a team in a lower division as their second club and it is often a U-23 team (even though the league they might play in is "open". Joe Scally, for example, started off with Borussia Moenchengladbach II in the Regionalliga (4th division) and then got promoted to the big team.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

More and more of those young kids are playing in the top European leagues, so maybe not just a sport for y league kids anymore. Very uninformed post.

It may be the dumbest take he has ever made. The popularity has been steadily growing and the ability to follow any big league and club is available now where it wasn't in the past. If you just go back 10-15 years no major network was carrying the entire EPL in the states, you had to go to certain bars to see your squad. It's as if some old men are afraid of soccer still to this day so they just yell **** about it from 40 years ago and think it's relevant to today.

The only bad thing you can say currently about soccer in the states is we somehow turned it into an elitist sport at the youth level which probably also holds us back from a deeper talent pool.

I mean me was saying he was talking facts, right. I thought I read that. I guess what he meant is that he is uninformed which is fine. Sometime you have to educate people. It's not like the popularity is declining in the US....and it bothers some for some reason.

In 2021 and 2022, more than 800,000 students played on high school soccer teams, ranking soccer fourth after track and field, basketball, and football, according to the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS). In 1969 and 1970, soccer ranked 11th in popularity, with fewer than 50,000 students playing high school soccer.

Technical Difficulties

share.america.gov

USA fans make 2022 the most-watched USMNT group stage EVER

The USA love affair with the world game has continued with the 2022 World Cup in Qatar now the most-watched USMNT group stage ever.

www.dailymail.co.uk

World Cup TV Ratings Surge With U.S. Again in Competition

Fox Sports has posted big gains over the 2018 men's tournament, and Telemundo is bringing in healthy audiences for Spanish telecasts.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

World Cup Ratings: U.S. Victory Over Iran Draws 12M Viewers On Fox

Audiences were eager to see if the U.S. would move on to the knockout stage after a 0-0 draw versus England on Friday

deadline.com

Report: Soccer the fastest-growing major sport in the US

A recent report commissioned and released by Telemundo Deportes has showcased soccer as the fastest-growing team sport in America. Entitled The Future is Fútbol, the report also revealed additional fascinating insights into the fanbase and the sport of soccer in the USA. For a long time, soccer...

worldsoccertalk.com

 

[CyphaPSU]

This thread has become trollamania. It would be akin to having folks who are not fans of PSU come on this board after Penn State loses a bowl game (may it never be!) and they rant about how PSU has a long way to go to compete on the national level, Penn State’s games are really boring, PSU will never compete until it gains a lot more popularity (read NIL money) and thus attracting better players, etc.

For whatever reason, soccer uniquely brings out those who feel the need to voluntarily voice their distain for the sport (not just on this board) when no one asked.

I watched yesterday’s game with a couple guys, one of which is an immigrant from China. He commented on how he’s seen for himself the growth in popularity of this sport in the US. Now, the growth may be incremental, but it’s rather undeniable. And for some reason that ticks off a certain segment in society.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

This thread has become trollamania. It would be akin to having folks who are not fans of PSU come on this board after Penn State loses a bowl game (may it never be!) and they rant about how PSU has a long way to go to compete on the national level, Penn State’s games are really boring, PSU will never compete until it gains a lot more popularity (read NIL money) and thus attracting better players, etc.

For whatever reason, soccer uniquely brings out those who feel the need to voluntarily voice their distain for the sport (not just on this board) when no one asked.

I watched yesterday’s game with a couple guys, one of which is an immigrant from China. He commented on how he’s seen for himself the growth in popularity of this sport in the US. Now, the growth may be incremental, but it’s rather undeniable. And for some reason that ticks off a certain segment in society.

It's like just jumping into a conversation that you aren't interested in to **** on someone elses likes for no real reason at all. I don't fly fish, but I also don't jump into threads of people that discuss it saying how much I don't like it. I have friends that do and friends that go sit up in trees for 12 hours in 30 degree weather looking for deer.....they love it, I'd rather watch soccer or go sit on the beach in warm weather. I don't turn away the deer jerky or sausage when the give it to me or tell them how much I don't care for it...I congratulate them and thank them. I get disagreements on football related things on a football driven site, but it's pretty easy to skip threads you aren't interested in.

 

[GreggK]

I may like that system. Do the pro club pay the kids? Or is it like the college system, where some kids pay to be on youth teams and some get schollies?

I believe before 17, not exactly however they receive money for travel and school and the parents might get a little money. At 17 they can sign a pro contract and then they get paid.
I can imagine a top youngster who is younger than 17 getting plenty of money if they need it.

It would be like the Steelers running a youth academy that could sign players at pop Warner age. And the give them real coaching.

 

[Alphalion75]

Now you’re the victim? LOL

It was not my intention to insult anyone with my posts. If I did, I truly apologize. I only meant to point out that soccer is a marginally popular sport in this country.

 

[kgilbert78]

I believe before 17, not exactly however they receive money for travel and school and the parents might get a little money. At 17 they can sign a pro contract and then they get paid.
I can imagine a top youngster who is younger than 17 getting plenty of money if they need it.

It would be like the Steelers running a youth academy that could sign players at pop Warner age. And the give them real coaching.

The big difference is that the European (and South American) model is that all of these teams--amateur and pro--are real *clubs*. They have club houses, own practice fields (and often a small stadium), the clubhouse has a restaurant, etc. Think a country club but instead of golf, it's soccer (and other sports--Bayern Munich, for one is known for pro basketball). Now, at the top levels, the actual team has been broken out as a separate corporation, largely for financial issues (if the team gos bankrupt, the club does not lose everything). German has a rule that even there, one person or entity cannot own more than 50% (the 50+1 rule) and they have to be a real club with real members--Red Bull Leipzig fell afoul of this when they first started--and are still considered to be a "plastic" club, though often someone with *real* money supports the finances of the team.

 

[BobPSU92]

This thread has become trollamania. It would be akin to having folks who are not fans of PSU come on this board after Penn State loses a bowl game (may it never be!) and they rant about how PSU has a long way to go to compete on the national level, Penn State’s games are really boring, PSU will never compete until it gains a lot more popularity (read NIL money) and thus attracting better players, etc.

For whatever reason, soccer uniquely brings out those who feel the need to voluntarily voice their distain for the sport (not just on this board) when no one asked.

I watched yesterday’s game with a couple guys, one of which is an immigrant from China. He commented on how he’s seen for himself the growth in popularity of this sport in the US. Now, the growth may be incremental, but it’s rather undeniable. And for some reason that ticks off a certain segment in society.

Penn State Football is just girls and minivans.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

It was not my intention to insult anyone with my posts. If I did, I truly apologize. I only meant to point out that soccer is a marginally popular sport in this country.

Thanks for the post. What you say is somewhat true, but the facts are that the popularity and access to view it are going up every year. That isn't because it's shrinking in popularity and more people watched the UK versus the US by 4-5 million than watched the B!G title game last year. I get it's not everyone's cup of tea, but this notion that is declining in popularity or the perception of US soccer hasn't changed in the last 40 years is just way off the mark. 40 years ago the US was a laughing stock....now it's seen as a failure if they don't make it to the final 16 of a World Cup. Hell people are pissed they didn't make it to the quarters against a world soccer powerhouse nation who had been unbeated in 17 straight competitions. Those of us who do watch saw the US go toe to toe with Holland with just 2-3 mental breadowns that cost us, but in terms of the game....it was dead even in terms of possessions, shots, corners, passes completed.......in fact the US had the advantage in some of those stats while fielding the youngest team in the knockout round.

 

[manatree]

German has a rule that even there, one person or entity cannot own more than 50% (the 50+1 rule) and they have to be a real club with real members--Red Bull Leipzig fell afoul of this when they first started--and are still considered to be a "plastic" club, though often someone with *real* money supports the finances of the team.

Big fan of the Bundesliga, and while I think the whole 50+1 requirements is a nice thing in principle, it is a bit of a Potemkin Village and the Germans pick and choose where to look. Yes, RB Leipzig & Hoffenheim (backed by billionaire former player Dietmar Hopp) are scorned as being corporate puppets and legally skirting the 50+1 rule. However, they never seem complain about Bayer Leverkusen and Wolfsburg who have always been and continue to be owned by Bayer AG and Volkswagen.

While resident Bundesliga gorilla Munich fully complies with the 50+1 ownership model, they are financed by Allianz, Audi, and Adidas (each owning 8%) and long term sponsor Deutsche Telekom, etc. Add in the fact that Bayern’s supervisory board is made up of executives from Addidas, Allianz, Deutsche Telekom, UniCredit Bank, etc. Yes, technically they are only minority owned, but you only need to look at how their new stadium was financed and paid for to see who is in charge. It sure as heck isn’t the 50+1 owners.

Even my Dortmund which is the only publicly traded sports team in Germany is bankrolled by minority shareholders Evonik, Puma, Signal Iduna, Geske Communications, etc.

You can be sure that all of the major German clubs are run in a similar fashion. Technically owned under the 50+1 rules but essentially funded and run by corporate entities.


I do think that the USA is hurt by not having a stronger domestic pro league. While the MLS has gotten better it is still below the level of even some of the smaller European leagues. It probably ranks behind the English Championship as well. Theoretically the MLS is kept weaker by perpetual expansion. However, having more teams (both MLS & USL) might help to develop a larger fan base in the States.

 

[LionJim]

While the MLS has gotten better it is still below the level of even some of the smaller European leagues. It probably ranks behind the English Championship as well.

Wow, interesting take.

 

[GreggK]

Wow, interesting take.

it’s definitely below the English championship, but, it’s getting there. Look no further than the beautiful stadiums being built. Austin’s new stadium is great! NYCFC is finally getting theirs.

 

[manatree]

Wow, interesting take.

Granted, this is just my spitball opinion. Rankings are always subjective to the data collected. At least the UEFA coefficients are based on regular results from UEFA competitions. Trying to rank internationally and various level of international leagues is something is something that is damn near impossible as a UEFA competition model would be logistically impossible.

Don’t think that anyone would argue that the English Premier is by far the strongest league in the world. Most would accept that the Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1 , & Seria A are the next leagues that have separated from the rest of the pack.

I would rank the Eredivise next along with the Belgian and Portuguese top leagues.

After that, Liga MX and the Brazilian Série A would probably be in the argument. Or maybe along with the previous cluster. Then who would be next? The Russian, Turkish, Belgian, and Argentine leagues?

Is the MLS stronger than the Scottish Premier, Austrian, Danish, or even the Swiss leagues? I don’t know, but my gut is telling me that these are the leagues that the MLS might be in the conversation with.

The reason why I throw the English Championship in there is because the financial payouts for the EPL are so insane that owners have been investing a lot of money into players at the Championship level as an investment towards the financial windfall that even a fleeting promotion would bring. I am thinking that the Championship is a stronger league than the MLS.

 

[manatree]

it’s definitely below the English championship, but, it’s getting there. Look no further than the beautiful stadiums being built. Austin’s new stadium is great! NYCFC is finally getting theirs.

I agree that the MLS is getting better, but I would never consider the beauty, size, and amenities of stadiums as much of an indicator of league strength.

 

[GreggK]

I agree that the MLS is getting better, but I would never consider the beauty, size, and amenities of stadiums as much of an indicator of league strength.

I would. Stadiums take investment. Which means money, and money is the driver of quality in the end.

Money is the only reason why the EPL is better than Serie A or Legue 1.

 

[kgilbert78]

Big fan of the Bundesliga, and while I think the whole 50+1 requirements is a nice thing in principle, it is a bit of a Potemkin Village and the Germans pick and choose where to look. Yes, RB Leipzig & Hoffenheim (backed by billionaire former player Dietmar Hopp) are scorned as being corporate puppets and legally skirting the 50+1 rule. However, they never seem complain about Bayer Leverkusen and Wolfsburg who have always been and continue to be owned by Bayer AG and Volkswagen.

While resident Bundesliga gorilla Munich fully complies with the 50+1 ownership model, they are financed by Allianz, Audi, and Adidas (each owning 8%) and long term sponsor Deutsche Telekom, etc. Add in the fact that Bayern’s supervisory board is made up of executives from Addidas, Allianz, Deutsche Telekom, UniCredit Bank, etc. Yes, technically they are only minority owned, but you only need to look at how their new stadium was financed and paid for to see who is in charge. It sure as heck isn’t the 50+1 owners.

Even my Dortmund which is the only publicly traded sports team in Germany is bankrolled by minority shareholders Evonik, Puma, Signal Iduna, Geske Communications, etc.

You can be sure that all of the major German clubs are run in a similar fashion. Technically owned under the 50+1 rules but essentially funded and run by corporate entities.


I do think that the USA is hurt by not having a stronger domestic pro league. While the MLS has gotten better it is still below the level of even some of the smaller European leagues. It probably ranks behind the English Championship as well. Theoretically the MLS is kept weaker by perpetual expansion. However, having more teams (both MLS & USL) might help to develop a larger fan base in the States.

I'll note that Leverkusen gets an exception because they were founded as the factory sports club (still are), similar to the Packers and many other early NFL teams, and in fact they were once better known for their athletics (I.e. track and field) division. Its like my company team (we have one) making it to MLS. They have a very large membership from employees who play on various lower level teams in many sports. So they really were (and are) a true club. VfL Wolfsburg is similar.

 

[manatree]

I'll note that Leverkusen gets an exception because they were founded as the factory sports club (still are), similar to the Packers and many other early NFL teams, and in fact they were once better known for their athletics (I.e. track and field) division. Its like my company team (we have one) making it to MLS. They have a very large membership from employees who play on various lower level teams in many sports. So they really were (and are) a true club. VfL Wolfsburg is similar.

That is all well and good, but it does not change the fact that the Bayer and Volkswagen corporations are financing and controlling the Leverkusen and Wolfsburg clubs just as much as Red Bull is with Leipzig, Dietmar Hopp/SAE is with Hoffenheim, Adidas, Audi, Allianz etc. is with Bayern etc.

Yes, technically all of the teams other than Leverkusen and Wolfsburg are owned by the 50+1 rules, but the teams are bankrolled and run by the corporate owners and board members. And the team board members just happen to be executives with large corporations that just happen to be minority owners or large corporate sponsors of the team.

Yes, technically the 50+1 own the clubs, but the 50+1 are not the ones financing and running the clubs.

 

[manatree]

I would. Stadiums take investment. Which means money, and money is the driver of quality in the end.

Money is the only reason why the EPL is better than Serie A or Legue 1.

The stadiums do not play the game.

I’m sure that all of the MLS, and probably some of the USL teams have better stadiums than half of the teams in the top flights in Mexico, Brazil, Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium, etc. It doesn’t mean that the MLS. is a stronger league than those leagues.

 

[GreggK]

The stadiums do not play the game.

Money buys players. Money buys development. That’s what I am saying, quality will improve with investment.

 

[Moogy]

You are kidding right? So a player born in Germany who’s parents are in the Armed forces shouldn’t get to play for the country he is a citizen of?

This is also not just an American thing. France has a player born in Angola.

Further, the vast majority were born here. Even Tim Weah, who’s dad is the president of Liberia.

Finally, the player who would be considered the best of them all, was born and raised in Hershey pa.

I didn't say anything about what should and should not happen, so calm down lil tiger!

And you answered none of my questions during your tantrum. I'm guessing you won't, either.

But, now that you brought it up ... I don't know exactly how the eligibility determination is made, nor do I know any specifics of any particular players (hence the questions), but, hypothetically, if some American GI knocked up a chick overseas, and that kid grows up overseas, and learns the game and trains overseas, and then is allowed to represent America in international competitions, it's kinda an unfortunate reality.

But, I was simply asking because I wanted to get a feel for just how much actual American soccer is progressing ... are players who grew up in this country, and trained in this country and are now top level national players becoming more numerous (and more skilled than their predecessors)? To me, that would show the most progress and hope, rather than hoping that some French kid is going to grow up and chose to represent the US when he's an adult (or near adult). Is the US producing top-level talent that is then representing other nations (e.g. a Cali kid with a French mom playing on France's national team), or are we solely (or largely) the beneficiaries of this international exchange?

And, no, I'm not kidding.

 

[manatree]

Money buys players. Money buys development. That’s what I am saying, quality will improve with investment.

The salary cap for MLS is $4.9 million and will gradually rise to $7 million by 2027. That is the most important investment in strengthening the league, not stadium amenities. It doesn’t matter how much money is invested in a stadium, the most important factor is how much money is invested in the players.

The money spent in stadiums is mostly for the fans, not the players. Actually, mostly to extract money from the fans. Which eventually trickles down to paying the players, controlled by the salary cap.

 

[manatree]

For those that are really concerned, I think that the USA had five foreign born players on their World Cup roster.

The Netherlands: Sergiño Dest
Columbia: Jesús Ferreira
England: Antonee Robinson, Cameron Carter-Vickers, & Gio Reyna

Not sure where Dest grew up but he did play on the USA U17 & U20 teams.

Jesús Ferreira moved to the US when he was ten.

Robinson’s dad was born in England but grew up in the US and became a US citizen. I think Robinson spent most of his childhood in England.

Cameron Carter-Vickers’ dad is an American basketball player who had or has dual citizenship with France. Carter-Vickers mostly grew up in England living with his mother but spent summers in the US with his dad.

While Reyna was not born on USA soil both parents are US citizens were USA National players and he was born when his dad was playing in the English leagues. The family moved back to the States when he was in grade school and he was signed to the Dortmund academy and moved to Germany when he was 17.

Tim Weah, born in the US to a Liberian father and a Jamaican mother but grew up in New York and Florida until he moved to France when he signed to the Paris Saint-Germain academy at the age of 14 of 15.

Weston McKinnie was born in Texas but did start playing soccer in Germany when his dad was stationed there. He signed with Schalke and moved to Germany when he was 18.

Pulisic is from Hershey, but signed with Dortmund and moved to Germany when he was 16.

There may be other players on the roster who might have been eligible for other countries at one time, but I am far from an expert. There may have been others that were developed at foreign academies as well.

The kicker is, that Weah, Reyna, and Pulisic would not have been able to be signed as minors and trained at PSG & BvB if it were not for their foreign connections via their place of birth (Reyna), parent(s) nationality (Weah), or grandparent’s nationality (Pulisic). The footy education that they received from top Bundesliga and Ligue 1 academies far exceeded what they could receive at MLS or USA academies.

 

[Moogy]

For those that are really concerned, I think that the USA had five foreign born players on their World Cup roster.

The Netherlands: Sergiño Dest
Columbia: Jesús Ferreira
England: Antonee Robinson, Cameron Carter-Vickers, & Gio Reyna

Not sure where Dest grew up but he did play on the USA U17 & U20 teams.

Jesús Ferreira moved to the US when he was ten.

Robinson’s dad was born in England but grew up in the US and became a US citizen. I think Robinson spent most of his childhood in England.

Cameron Carter-Vickers’ dad is an American basketball player who had or has dual citizenship with France. Carter-Vickers mostly grew up in England living with his mother but spent summers in the US with his dad.

While Reyna was not born on USA soil both parents are US citizens were USA National players and he was born when his dad was playing in the English leagues. The family moved back to the States when he was in grade school and he was signed to the Dortmund academy and moved to Germany when he was 17.

Tim Weah, born in the US to a Liberian father and a Jamaican mother but grew up in New York and Florida until he moved to France when he signed to the Paris Saint-Germain academy at the age of 14 of 15.

Weston McKinnie was born in Texas but did start playing soccer in Germany when his dad was stationed there. He signed with Schalke and moved to Germany when he was 18.

Pulisic is from Hershey, but signed with Dortmund and moved to Germany when he was 16.

There may be other players on the roster who might have been eligible for other countries at one time, but I am far from an expert. There may have been others that were developed at foreign academies as well.

The kicker is, that Weah, Reyna, and Pulisic would not have been able to be signed as minors and trained at PSG & BvB if it were not for their foreign connections via their place of birth (Reyna), parent(s) nationality (Weah), or grandparent’s nationality (Pulisic). The footy education that they received from top Bundesliga and Ligue 1 academies far exceeded what they could receive at MLS or USA academies.

Thank you, sir. You may not be an expert, but your knowledge far exceeds my own on the subject.

Not a soccer guy, obviously, but I pay some attention to the national team when they're in larger tournaments ... it's sort of like the Olympics to me in that way.

 

[manatree]

Not a soccer guy, obviously, but I pay some attention to the national team when they're in larger tournaments ... it's sort of like the Olympics to me in that way.

Another tidbit, Olympics Men’s soccer has an age limit of 23, so it does not have the best players in the world, keeping the World Cup the premier soccer competition.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Another tidbit, Olympics Men’s soccer has an age limit of 23, so it does not have the best players in the world, keeping the World Cup the premier soccer competition.

The best U23 players also play for the senior teams so the Olympics is a B tournament in soccer.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[Tom McAndrew]

USMNT's striker problem: Who are the best post-World Cup options? | MLSSoccer.com

“I’ll give up to half my kingdom for a No. 9.” – Gregg Berhalter (probably) The US men’s national team’s 2022 FIFA World Cup run is over, but their search for a productive striker is very much not. Haji Wright was the only US striker who scored a goal across

www.mlssoccer.com

 

[Tom McAndrew]

USMNT roster prediction for the 2026 World Cup: Who makes it? | MLSSoccer.com

The 2022 World Cup cycle, for the US men’s national team, is over – and like most of you, I’m still digesting everything we saw and learned over the past four years. Over the next few days, I’ll be digging into more and more of it (got to grind through

www.mlssoccer.com

 

[CyphaPSU]

I hope this comes to fruition. The Netherlands game showed that we need more higher level competition instead of constantly being stuck with Concacaf opponents all the time. The only issue is that we, as a guest country, will not have a FIFA-backed mandate for clubs to release our players for this tournament. Hopefully that aspect can be worked out.

 

[BobPSU92]

Sources: Berhalter set for USMNT contract talks

USMNT manager Gregg Berhalter is set to begin discussions on a new contract with the U.S. Soccer Federation, sources have told ESPN.

www.espn.com

Berhalter’s got this.

We’re screwed.

 

[GreggK]

Sources: Berhalter set for USMNT contract talks

USMNT manager Gregg Berhalter is set to begin discussions on a new contract with the U.S. Soccer Federation, sources have told ESPN.

www.espn.com

Berhalter’s got this.

We’re screwed.

What a **** show

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Best Alternatives to Berhalter?
Let's throw some names out and someone an throw up a poll

 

[GreggK]

USMNT's striker problem: Who are the best post-World Cup options? | MLSSoccer.com

“I’ll give up to half my kingdom for a No. 9.” – Gregg Berhalter (probably) The US men’s national team’s 2022 FIFA World Cup run is over, but their search for a productive striker is very much not. Haji Wright was the only US striker who scored a goal across

www.mlssoccer.com

Folarin Balogun is the only one I see on that list that could be a game changer. The key is to pry him out of the hands of the English, and it seems he is open to it. In fact, we should have pushed hard to have him in this world cup team, unfortunately he isn't a 28 year old MLS player, so Berhalter wasn't interested in him at striker.


Malick Sanogo is also someone to look at. Germany wants him, and he played for them but also he has played for the USA.

 

[GreggK]

Best Alternatives to Berhalter?
Let's throw some names out and someone an throw up a poll

My choice is Jesse Marsch, who likely won't be at Leeds for long. Not because I don't think he isn't good, just that I think think he can make them top 10, and anything that isn't top 10 won't be good enough for Leeds. So wait for him to come free and go hard for him.

 

[LionJim]

X

 

[Woodpecker]

X

Hmmm, a value that is not yet known from the mathematician. That's rational ... or is it?

 

[Mr. Chim]

Greg has to go.

 

[LionJim]

Hmmm, a value that is not yet known from the mathematician. That's rational ... or is it?

No, it is transcendental in this particular situation.

Transcendental number - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org