2023 Pittsburgh Pirates thread
- Thread starter Nits74
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They were my boyhood idols... Clemente, Stargell, Parker and the rest of the "Lumber Company to The Family." Yes, we can (and should) blame Robert Nutting for many of the misfortunes currently surrounding Pirates Baseball. One of my annual Christmas wishes is that "Bottom-Line Bob" would sell the team to someone who wants to build a consistent winner! However, the blame goes far beyond Nutting. Back in the late 80s-early 90s when the Buccos were once- relevant there was a man who was GM by the name of Syd Thrift. He was the guy who brought in Jim Leyland and all the stars to make the run they made during that era from the second half of 1987 to 1992. Well, I truly believe that jealousy began to rear its ugly head because Thrift was fired by then- team President the late Carl Barger (even though his dismissal was head-scratching). Barger did help keep the Pirates in Pittsburgh after their infamous 1985 season. However, Barger definitely did not have the baseball knowledge that Thrift had and felt as if his thunder as team President was being stolen. Thus, Thrift's assistant Larry Doughty (IMHO nothing more than a "yes man"for the front office...) replaced Thrift and no real effort was ever made to sign Bonilla, Bonds, or Drabek. Barger would always use the same convenient excuse. "We cannot pay our star players... We are in a small market." While at the same time Barger was planning to take off for Miami because he was named as the expansion Marlins president while also holding the same title with the Pirates. (Clearly a conflict of interest.) He never got to be CEO of the Marlins as he passed away at winter meetings. Back to present-day, I truly would love the see the Pirates turn the corner this season and be competitive after many, many frustrating and futile seasons. However, history almost always shows otherwise...
Well said. I remember an SI cover back in the late 80’s, early 90’s? With Syd Thrift, Bonds, and Bonilla on it. If I remember correctly, it said something like, “Yes, these Bucs are for real.” Andy Van Slyke was my favorite player back in those days. I thought he was the epitome of Pittsburgh. He was a hard nosed, dive at fly balls, no batting gloves, tell you what he thinks without sugarcoating it, kind of guy. He gave it everything he had every time he stepped on the field. Same for Leyland. He was the perfect guy for the job. He is still my favorite manager ever. Man those teams were fun. Drabek, Smiley, and Walk on the mound. Jeff King at 3rd. Jay Bell. Jose Lind. Spanky behind the plate. Pittsburgh has a deep baseball tradition and that city is begging for a winner. Too bad Nutting doesn’t care.
Nutting has certainly done a poor job.
That said, he allowed Cherrington to go out and get some players this past winter. He brought in a decent mix of young and older players and created some quality depth all around, beefed up the pitching a bit, and improved the defense. Last year first base and catcher were such glaring weaknesses it was a shame. All around, the Pirates are just a better team this year.
They will remain competitive until the injuries pile up. Cruz and Choi, and pitchers Brubaker, Garcia, Zastryzney, and DeJong were big losses already. The rotation is OK, but the next injury there will really stick out.
I'm enjoying this while it lasts!
That said, he allowed Cherrington to go out and get some players this past winter. He brought in a decent mix of young and older players and created some quality depth all around, beefed up the pitching a bit, and improved the defense. Last year first base and catcher were such glaring weaknesses it was a shame. All around, the Pirates are just a better team this year.
They will remain competitive until the injuries pile up. Cruz and Choi, and pitchers Brubaker, Garcia, Zastryzney, and DeJong were big losses already. The rotation is OK, but the next injury there will really stick out.
I'm enjoying this while it lasts!
I'd say the injuries have already piled up. But yeah, you are right with respect to another possible pitching injury. That said, the current rotation has statistically been one of the better in baseball to date. Pretty surprising run, but way early though.
The Glov would say.....Kiss My Cannon Balls......Let's Go Bucs!!!
You aren’t wrong. However, their payroll last year was in the bottom three of all of MLB payrolls, so there certainly was room to make acquisitions. The frustrating part for me is all the talent that has been on the roster in the past that could still be contributing in a Pirates uniform had ownership not been cheap and either traded them away for little return or let them walk in free agency. Players like Cole, Glasnow, Taillion, Marte, Meadows, Dickerson, Bell, Frazier, etc, just to name a few. Again, if you watched the playoff games in 2013, the fans showed up. The environment at PNC was electric for the Blackouts. Pirates fans will show up if the team is competitive. It’s up to ownership to make the decision on what direction the franchise takes. Past actions of this ownership don’t give fans much hope.
I’ll also add that the franchise is at a crossroads with Brian Reynolds. If they are committed to the young core of players and building around them, they need to close the Reynolds deal. Not getting that deal done will have additional negative effects on the franchise. Reynolds is a fantastic player in his prime. He’s the type of player they have let walk in the past. We will see.
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Nutting may suck, but it’s baseball’s system that is the problem. Every other major sport has a salary cap and floor, and the result is that every team has the same opportunity to build a winner. The small markets in baseball simply cannot compete at a consistent level with the large markets. Of course there are annual exceptions, but what happens to those teams? They get a few years of window before they lose their top players to the big markets. The Rays do things absolutely perfectly, but it still sucks for their fans because they still lose their top players every time they become free agents. And they still have 0 titles to show for doing everything right.
So yeah, blame Nutting, but there’s a reason baseball is made up of the haves and have nots, and it’s not because the great owners and management teams happen to be in the big markets.
So yeah, blame Nutting, but there’s a reason baseball is made up of the haves and have nots, and it’s not because the great owners and management teams happen to be in the big markets.
I don’t disagree. You are absolutely correct. MLB is, as you said, the only professional level sport without a salary cap and it shows. Changing that is long overdue. The Rays and A’s put a competitive team on the field pretty consistently without the hardware to show for it. Nutting still sucks. When guys like Mark Cuban want to buy the team and make it into a winner, but owners like McClatchey and Nutting decline, that’s on them. Clearly, they are making their money or they would sell.
Love it, just hope they can keep it up. Need to getr a deal done with Reynolds as well.
Baseball is getting exciting again for me. Growing up in the days of Clemente, Stargell, Manny, Hebner, Oliver etc. you became spoiled year in year out.
Right and unfortunately, nothing is going to change in baseball until the small market owners are losing money, which isn’t going to happen. They’re all happy to make money and lose, hence why the latest CBA was unanimously voted on by the owners despite being awful for small market competitiveness.
Correct. On top of that, a few years ago the MLB stopped allowing teams like the Pirates to offer larger than normal bonuses in the draft as a way to draft and roster players that they previously would not have been able to sign because of not being able to offer the mega contracts the large market teams could offer to draft prospects. The large market teams complained about the practice and the MLB quickly shut it down. The MLB has no interest in a level playing field. They want the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox and large TV market teams to be front and center.
In my opinion the Rays are by far the smartest organization in baseball. Given the relative size of the market; arguably one of the worst venues, and at best a lukewarm fanbase, what they have accomplished over recent years is amazing. So, it can be done, but they are the exception.
Yeah, they’re certainly the model, but even with them doing everything right, they have 2 World Series losses to show for it in 15 years. The A’s used to be the other model, and they never even made it to a World Series.
The small market owners decided they don’t care about me, so I stopped caring about them after this last CBA. Not that it matters much, since I’m blacked out from watching Pirates games in Columbus even if I pay for MLB.tv. They just couldn’t do more to drive away fans if it were intentional.
Sorry to hijack your thread with my complaining though nits, I am glad the Pirates are doing well for the fans they haven’t pushed away.
No hijacking at all. What you say is the reality of a flawed system. Unfortunately, the powers that be want it the way it is. The players' union loves it as it ensures still more money for the players. The owners generally like it because even though it unfairly favors large markets, having those teams consistently in the post season helps in viewership ratings and more dollars. Even the small market owners, such as Nutting, don't seem to mind because they're essentially guaranteed , albeit relatively small. a profit without selling a single ticket.
I'm just trying to enjoy what I'm currently witnessing, which is a team with a good attitude and is playing very good fundamental baseball. Haven't seen this for awhile around these parts, and there is actually a buzz in town. Here's hoping they catch lightning in a bottle for their fans. Trust me, you would have enjoyed watching how they've played.
I'm just trying to enjoy what I'm currently witnessing, which is a team with a good attitude and is playing very good fundamental baseball. Haven't seen this for awhile around these parts, and there is actually a buzz in town. Here's hoping they catch lightning in a bottle for their fans. Trust me, you would have enjoyed watching how they've played.
On the plus side of things, The Pirates signed Bryan Reynolds today to an eight year contract. Added more money/years in exchange for the early opt out clause his agent wanted.
Sources: Pirates, Reynolds reach $106.75M deal
The Pirates and outfielder Bryan Reynolds have agreed to an eight-year, $106.75 million extension, sources confirmed to ESPN.
www.espn.com
Who was the poster on the old board who would start “Raise the Jolly Roger” threads? Wasn’t it Norm Peterson?
Not sure, Jim. I don't think it was Glov, so you may be correct.
And after Jack with the BIGGEST JACK OF ALL at 444 feet you can get ready to Raise The Jolly Roger for the 20th time in April!!!!!
Unfortunately, I think their final game in April will be rained out tomorrow.
Base hit and RBI for the MAGGI Man!!!! This after 1500 minor league games and 4500 minor league at bats!!
Might go to two of the games...
I am hoping for a World Series In Pitttsburgh. I was in grade school in 1960 but did attend Series games in 1971 and 1979i. I stopped going to the ball park after the trade of McCutchen, but would return for a Series game.
I too, was too young to attend the 1960 Series. Did have my transistor radio with me at school to listen to the last couple of innings. made it home just in time for Maz's homer. As far as the Cutch trade, they did get Bryan Reynolds in return. Now, they have them both.
Well, at least they played better than yesterday. Tell you what, I'm pretty old school, but after watching the umpires the last two games I'm ready for automated ball strike calls. These guys were absolutely horrible and clearly slanted in favor of the Rays. Still, Tampa is by far the better team.