$800,00 or more for one afternoon.

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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Rich people have been trying since the beginning of time to prove it’s OK not to pay for its labor or compensate labor fairly. A CEO does not work so much harder than the ones actually working and making things while he has another meeting at the golf course. Anyone’s argument against minimum wage that one can live is just a brainwashed fool or rich themselves.
This is just dumb. First, the minimum wage isn't a guarantee of a minimum wage. It's a legal mandate setting a productivity floor before somebody can be economically hired for a job. So the biggest costs of the minimum wage fall on those least able to afford it, the lowest productivity workers. That's why you can get mentally challenged people exempted from the productivity floor. Enough people recognize that it's cruel to tell them that just because they don't reach a certain level of productivity, they have to rely on charity to have a job and contribute to the best of their ability. It doesn't get less cruel just because a person doesn't have a documented disability.

Second, the minimum wage isn't targeted. This is a dated statistic, but probably a decade ago something less than a 1/3 of minimum wage workers were actually the breadwinner in their household. So you lock the most vulnerable people out of the workforce and then most of the gains don't even go to the people that need it most. That's why the EITC, fraud problems and all, is a better approach to the issue of making sure productivity workers have adequate income.

Third, if you look at poverty statistics, the problem for the poor is not primarily their wage rate, it's the lack of work at all. Households in poverty have very few full time workers compared to households not in poverty, so anything that removes more job opportunities is making the primary problem worse, not better.

Now you can agree or disagree that any of these arguments win the day, but to call other people brainwashed when you aren't even aware of them is rich. There is one sound argument for the minimum wage that I'm aware of that doesn't just boil down to "I feel better about myself if I say other people should pay more money to low wage workers", but it almost never gets made because most people don't care to think about it beyond "what will make me feel better" rather than what will make low productivity workers better off.
 

blacklistedbully

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Apr 9, 2010
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Why would the minimum wage a person can earn, not be meant to be lived off of? That's the whole point of the minimum wage. To keep penny pinching businesses from screwing over the lower/working class. Why would anyone work for a wage that is insufficient to live off of?
Well I, like the vast majority I would think, only worked at a minimum wage when I was in high school (though many also do in college) so I could have spending money to go on dates, put gas in my car, maybe save up some so I could buy something more expensive , etc.

They are the kind of jobs that require little-to-no experience, and jobs that, unless a person is lazy, can be performed by just about any Tom, Dick or Harry one pulls off the street.

Once I earned my degree and could actually add value to the company hiring me...value that could not be done by just anybody my compensation went WAY up.

Being forced to pay a minimum wage that can be lived off of is most often going to someone who is just not very bright, not educated, not interested in investing in themselves enough to qualify for a higher-paying job, etc., in which they actually add more value is ridiculous. That is the thing that tends to increase prices for consumers more than what a CEO earns, particularly when that CEO adds WAY more value than the person who can't get a job beyond minimum wage because they can't or won't increase their own value-add.

FWIW, one of the most important things a CEO does is to assemble, motivate & direct a team that adds the most value to the company. Even if that CEO is spending much time on the gold course, his/her decisions are what set the agenda for the entire company, whether directly or through the people he surrounds him or herself with.
 
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blacklistedbully

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I was reading in the news that Olivia Culpo, who is Christian McCaffery's fiancé, gifted his mother a suite for the superbowl. The linked article which you can read here, states that the price starts at 800K and goes up to 2Mil. I am a conservative and a capitalist and I think the players deserve every penny they make. Also a bunch of people earn a living because of things like this. However that people would pay that for an afternoon of entertainment is mind-boggling.

Excerpt:

According to TickPick, a ticketing resale marketplace, the price of a suite at this year’s Super Bowl can cost anywhere from $800,000 to $2m, depending on the type of suite. The Suite Experience Group, which provides suites for the Super Bowl, offers six suite options: the Traditional Suites, East Loge Level, Club Suites, Owners’ Seats, and Owners’ Club Suites.

One of the cheapest suite packages is priced at $300,000 in the Private Premium Loge Box, which includes four tickets and food and beverages. However, the cost for a Club Suite - 20 suite tickets, two parking passes, and food and beverages - is $1.2m. Traditional Premium Suites can accommodate 22 to 26 guests, while Owners’ Club Suites hold up to 16 to 20 people.
Bruce, keep in mind, that amount for them is the equivalent of most other people spending $3,000 or less. That's still a lot, but even less relatively speaking if you factor in total net worth, which could easily take that down to $300 for the average wage-earner.
 
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Hot Rock

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This is just dumb. First, the minimum wage isn't a guarantee of a minimum wage. It's a legal mandate setting a productivity floor before somebody can be economically hired for a job. So the biggest costs of the minimum wage fall on those least able to afford it, the lowest productivity workers. That's why you can get mentally challenged people exempted from the productivity floor. Enough people recognize that it's cruel to tell them that just because they don't reach a certain level of productivity, they have to rely on charity to have a job and contribute to the best of their ability. It doesn't get less cruel just because a person doesn't have a documented disability.

Second, the minimum wage isn't targeted. This is a dated statistic, but probably a decade ago something less than a 1/3 of minimum wage workers were actually the breadwinner in their household. So you lock the most vulnerable people out of the workforce and then most of the gains don't even go to the people that need it most. That's why the EITC, fraud problems and all, is a better approach to the issue of making sure productivity workers have adequate income.

Third, if you look at poverty statistics, the problem for the poor is not primarily their wage rate, it's the lack of work at all. Households in poverty have very few full time workers compared to households not in poverty, so anything that removes more job opportunities is making the primary problem worse, not better.

Now you can agree or disagree that any of these arguments win the day, but to call other people brainwashed when you aren't even aware of them is rich. There is one sound argument for the minimum wage that I'm aware of that doesn't just boil down to "I feel better about myself if I say other people should pay more money to low wage workers", but it almost never gets made because most people don't care to think about it beyond "what will make me feel better" rather than what will make low productivity workers better off.

You have found a way not to pay workers and you are convinced it's right. If they job ain't worth paying a decent wage then it's not worth it being there. Your taxes have to provide housing, insurance and food to millions of Walmart & McDonald's employees. Imagine having to actually pay your employees what it takes for them to live in order to run a business instead of us having to keep them in housing and food.

Walmart among others have taken advantage trickle down economics and ran a lot of people out of business using tax dollars to pay it's employees... foodstamps, insurance and even housing. 17 trickle Down economics, Ron Reagan and you.
 
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johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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You have found a way not to pay workers and you are convinced it's right. If they job ain't worth paying a decent wage then it's not worth it being there.
You reference me being convinced I'm right, but you think you are right that people voluntarily showing up for a job are better off unemployed, and even though they apparently think it's their best option, you (even though you don't know them or anything about their circumstances) feel morally ok advocating that they should be unemployed.

Your taxes have to provide housing, insurance and food to millions of Walmart & McDonald's employees. Imagine having to actually pay your employees what it takes for them to live in order to run a business instead of us having to keep them in housing and food.

Walmart among others have taken advantage trickle down economics and ran a lot of people out of business using tax dollars to pay it's employees... foodstamps, insurance and even housing. 17 trickle Down economics, Ron Reagan and you.
So Walmart and McDonalds, who are actually paying those employees something, are obligated to pay them more, but you, who aren't paying them anything, don't have a bigger obligation than Walmart and McDonald's? Doesn't make a ton of sense.

You are close to the one solid argument in favor of minimum wage I was referencing though. Like, 60% of the way there.
 

Perd Hapley

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Sounds like you are working for a dying company.
LOL. No. Not even close.

Its simply a company that grew big enough to where no major decisions were ever made by one person or even a small handful of people. Basically zero mid or upper management hires from outside the company….all are groomed for years internally before getting promoted. Those who embrace the company sponsored group think (which, in most cases, is based on very sound business principles) to the most obvious and outgoing extent are the ones that keep going up.

That’s quite a few big companies nowadays. I will say that the smaller the firm, the more important good executive leadership is. But once you get stupidly big and influential, its just a carousel of the same ideas, initiatives, and feedback from the leadership in many cases.
 

Ranchdawg

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You have found a way not to pay workers and you are convinced it's right. If they job ain't worth paying a decent wage then it's not worth it being there. Your taxes have to provide housing, insurance and food to millions of Walmart & McDonald's employees. Imagine having to actually pay your employees what it takes for them to live in order to run a business instead of us having to keep them in housing and food.

Walmart among others have taken advantage trickle down economics and ran a lot of people out of business using tax dollars to pay it's employees... foodstamps, insurance and even housing. 17 trickle Down economics, Ron Reagan and you.
No matter what the government forces on private corps they always find a way around it. Shove $25/hour for unskilled labor they will layoff and go to automation in all but necessary skilled jobs. Most Walmart, McDonalds etc jobs were entry level and not long term. Of course, a lot of unskilled workers have decided to make careers out of those jobs. When the government changed the minimum wage last time and made full time jobs require health care Walmart moved most of the unskilled jobs to part time work and hired more part time workers. People like you don't understand the dynamics of business and assume you can dictate your will on others. What do you do for a living?
 

Ranchdawg

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LOL. No. Not even close.

Its simply a company that grew big enough to where no major decisions were ever made by one person or even a small handful of people. Basically zero mid or upper management hires from outside the company….all are groomed for years internally before getting promoted. Those who embrace the company sponsored group think (which, in most cases, is based on very sound business principles) to the most obvious and outgoing extent are the ones that keep going up.

That’s quite a few big companies nowadays. I will say that the smaller the firm, the more important good executive leadership is. But once you get stupidly big and influential, its just a carousel of the same ideas, initiatives, and feedback from the leadership in many cases.
What company do you work for if you don't mind me asking? I've worked for 10 different companies, the National Guard and taught high school for 13 years. Nothing I experienced was as inefficient as my experience with government employment. The 10 private industry jobs were with publicly owned companies except two that I worked for before I started college. Some of the 8 others were Fortune 500 companies. Two of the companies I would put in the category with your company. The others were well run with excellent management and a good board of directors. The company where I was a Director was a $600,000,000/year company.
 

Hot Rock

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No matter what the government forces on private corps they always find a way around it. Shove $25/hour for unskilled labor they will layoff and go to automation in all but necessary skilled jobs. Most Walmart, McDonalds etc jobs were entry level and not long term. Of course, a lot of unskilled workers have decided to make careers out of those jobs. When the government changed the minimum wage last time and made full time jobs require health care Walmart moved most of the unskilled jobs to part time work and hired more part time workers. People like you don't understand the dynamics of business and assume you can dictate your will on others. What do you do for a living?

I don't understand business? Maybe you are the one that doesn't understand business. If a rich person gets more money he does not use it for investing to expand businesses to create more jobs. He just uses it to acquire more personal wealth and spends very little of it.

What happens when you pay the unskilled laborer, they spend every dime to stay alive or maybe even buy a few luxuries.

Which one you think makes the economy churn? Here's a hint, its not the one taking money out of circulation and put in a few people's hands.

It's people like you that has created the disappearing middle class. We need more Indians and fewer chiefs in this world if you can stand the old man comment. We are headed like a freight train toward an Oligarch society where just a few people own everything. You want to make American Great Again, pay these people a decent wage.
 

Ranchdawg

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Dec 13, 2012
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I don't understand business? Maybe you are the one that doesn't understand business. If a rich person gets more money he does not use it for investing to expand businesses to create more jobs. He just uses it to acquire more personal wealth and spends very little of it.

What happens when you pay the unskilled laborer, they spend every dime to stay alive or maybe even buy a few luxuries.

Which one you think makes the economy churn? Here's a hint, its not the one taking money out of circulation and put in a few people's hands.

It's people like you that has created the disappearing middle class. We need more Indians and fewer chiefs in this world if you can stand the old man comment. We are headed like a freight train toward an Oligarch society where just a few people own everything. You want to make American Great Again, pay these people a decent wage.
So, if a rich person takes the money and invests it to build a new shopping mall, apartment complex, retirement village, or puts it into bonds or stocks they aren't helping the economy? Do you really believe they stick it in the bank??????
I've known my share of "rich folks" and none of the put the money into savings accounts. Most looked for venture capital investments or put it in the stock market. Yes, the stock market influences the economy and leads to more business hires. The return can be very good for wise investments in the market. Venture Capital is riskier but the returns are much better. I understand that these investment aren't paying labor directly buy they keep McDonalds, Walmart etc afloat or those jobs wouldn't exist.

The home prices have also increased a lot which influences your chart: Homes
Things related to our economy are a lot more complex than just "increase minimum wage". Companies do what's required to maintain the bottom line to stay solvent. When you raise the minimum wage the cost of everything goes up usually putting the poorest of us back where we were (or worse) when the dust settles.
 

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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I don't understand business? Maybe you are the one that doesn't understand business. If a rich person gets more money he does not use it for investing to expand businesses to create more jobs. He just uses it to acquire more personal wealth and spends very little of it.

What happens when you pay the unskilled laborer, they spend every dime to stay alive or maybe even buy a few luxuries.

Which one you think makes the economy churn? Here's a hint, its not the one taking money out of circulation and put in a few people's hands.

It's people like you that has created the disappearing middle class. We need more Indians and fewer chiefs in this world if you can stand the old man comment. We are headed like a freight train toward an Oligarch society where just a few people own everything. You want to make American Great Again, pay these people a decent wage.
Could you explain how rich people acquire more personal wealth without spending their money?
 

horshack.sixpack

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Sounds like you are working for a dying company. I worked in the Semiconductor industry. It was eat or be eaten. Bad CEOs or Presidents lasted about 6 months and were ejected. Same for most upper managers. I was a Director when I moved back to MS. My boss was Executive VP and was retiring in 6 months with me as his replacement. I didn't want it or the President's job. I was already spending 2 weeks a month on the road and 10 hours a day when at the office. Great company with the best leadership I had ever experienced. We doubled the size of the company in 4 years. We had a profit sharing program for everyone in the company. Reviews were every 3 months so employees didn't coast for 9 months and bust *ss for 3. The President/CEO let us do our jobs but was very active. I learned a lot from him. I hired some new design engineers for new products I defined. He called me into his office before he signed off on the reqs and told me, "You better be sure you want to bring these people on because it is not just them you are hiring. You are hiring them and their families. If you can't keep them busy we will have to lay them off and their whole family will pay the price." Before that meeting I thought of him as a shrewd business man only concerned with the bottom line. We hired the engineers and we kept them busy but I thought about what he said everyday after that meeting. Far from a company placeholder as many think they are. Movies love to diminish and tarnish CEOs as evil self-serving b*stards and some are. Just like everything else there is a gaussian dostribution.
You worked in the VLSH area. Very Large Scale Headache; related to VLSI***
 
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JackShephard

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My humble thoughts from coming up on 2 decades experience in big corporate America….

The higher up the totem pole the origin is of a specific question / directive / request, the more ridiculous, absurd, and out of touch it is absolutely guaranteed to be.

The OP is correct. Executives generally bust their asses until they get one or two levels below what makes one an “executive” at any given company. But then they don’t have to work nearly as hard…and get paid way more for it. All they have to do is have what they believe to be a great, flavor of the week ideas every now and again that they can “convince” those below them to implement. Usually these ideas suck at worst, and at best they are neither good or bad - but still waste a ton of time and resources by diverting everyone away from their core work for whatever the hell it is for however long.

As someone who has spent many years with the same company (a good one might I add) - I’ve seen 4 or 5 different presidents. Dozens of different general managers and senior managers rotating in and out. Since my very first day, I can say that the strengths and weaknesses of the organization haven’t changed a bit. The biggest problems 20 years ago are still the biggest problems today, and in many ways they are worse. The strategic goals and objectives have not changed.

Once you get “made” and get in the club, you just get to keep occupying bigger and bigger seats after awhile, and life is good. But in very few large organizations are those people truly driving any sort of real improvements. They just get to sit in the seat for a little while….until the next one opens up. They are often every bit as interchangeable as the guys in the mailroom, the line leads, the accountants, and everyone else.
I have a close family member who has been Global Sales Rep, or higher, for a Fortune 500 company going back to the 1990s. He's been sought out by many start-ups and mid-sized companies since he "retired", and has been all the way up to COO/CEO for some of these ventures. He's extremely good, and always brings value wherever he goes (hence being constantly contacted and sought out by everyone, figuratively speaking).

I have a very close friend who worked up from a regular worker bee to COO of a company, he works harder now that he ever has, and you won't find anyone who says he adds no value to the company.

I have another close friend who worked up from worker bee to Executive at one of the most well-know Engineering firms in the world. He has transformed every group he's ever touched, and that's how he got to where he is now.

So, there's 3 anecdotal experiences that disagree with your anecdotal experiences. Guess what? There's more out there than your company and your personal experience.
 

JackShephard

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Bull crap! A minimum wage is not nor has it ever been meant as a living wage. It was intended as a starter pay point for unskilled and/or novice beginning laborers. But there are indeed people who chose for a multitude of reasons not to get the kind of education that would give them the opportunity to advance themselves or create opportunities for themselves. The country needs carpenters, plumbers, electricians, heating and air techs, etc, etc. etc.... we don't need English Majors with BA or BS degrees becoming baristas. We don't need art majors who get hired to draw graffiti but if they are happy with that life, have at it. We have people with high degrees who essentially wasted their money but has a good time until it's time to get the real world life degree. I used to watch a lot of MLB but not any more. I don't watch MLS Soccer, Hockey or NBA. So I don't care how much they get paid. Should a grocery cashier make more than $7.25 an hour? Sure. But how much is fair so as to not have those that are making $9 an hour after 2 years experience go up proportionately . If a company employs 30 people at beginner, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, 5 years, 8 years, but the 8 year get is making $12 an hour because they understood that low skill job can only pay so much for the position at the top. So the ridiculous request of $15 minimum should push all the other experienced employee up proportionately. And to do thst fairly, a $1.39 can of green beans is going to have to sell for $3.39 and thst is stupid.
I didn't agree with a $15/hr minimum wage 3 years ago. Then an election happened, and inflation has already made a can of green beans cost darn near $3.39. So, maybe it's time. The sad thing is, $15 now is about the same thing as $7.25 in 2020 dollars. And yes, it is stupid!
 
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CEO2044

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Maybe. Call it whatever you want, but it’s fascinating to me that we value a person at that level of wealth, when they aren’t tangibly making our life better somehow.
Do you pay to go watch a teacher perform? A doctor? Do you buy a replica of their white coat? Do you get on message boards to solely discuss what they do?

I mean… if everyone drew back their dollars and quit watching/supporting (like so many claim they are going to start doing when one does something they don’t like), they wouldn’t be paid as much. But the majority don’t.
 
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JackShephard

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Do you pay to go watch a teacher perform? A doctor? Do you buy a replica of their white coat? Do you get on message boards to solely discuss what they do?

I mean… if everyone drew back their dollars and quit watching/supporting (like so many claim they are going to start doing when one does something they don’t like), they wouldn’t be paid as much. But the majority don’t.
Exactly. And if you don't like how much Wal-Mart, McDonald's, KFC, etc. pays their employees, don't go there and spend money. If you don't like what the CEO of company X is doing, don't do business with them.

However, the people who complain the loudest usually throw a bunch of money at these people. Just like how the people who complain the loudest about carbon emissions all fly all over the world in private jets to yell at those of us with a negligible carbon footprint.
 

Hot Rock

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So, if a rich person takes the money and invests it to build a new shopping mall, apartment complex, retirement village, or puts it into bonds or stocks they aren't helping the economy? Do you really believe they stick it in the bank??????
I've known my share of "rich folks" and none of the put the money into savings accounts. Most looked for venture capital investments or put it in the stock market. Yes, the stock market influences the economy and leads to more business hires. The return can be very good for wise investments in the market. Venture Capital is riskier but the returns are much better. I understand that these investment aren't paying labor directly buy they keep McDonalds, Walmart etc afloat or those jobs wouldn't exist.

The home prices have also increased a lot which influences your chart: Homes
Things related to our economy are a lot more complex than just "increase minimum wage". Companies do what's required to maintain the bottom line to stay solvent. When you raise the minimum wage the cost of everything goes up usually putting the poorest of us back where we were (or worse) when the dust settles.
here is the problem.. Rich people don't take their money and do anything with it. They use other people's money to invest in infrastructure if it's a viable business, if not, they keep it. They already own homes, cars, boats etc.. Sure, they buy some but keep the majority. We keep going the way we are going, the middle class will be gone in 50 years. It's not an overnight thing. We have already gotten to the point that the younger generation can't buy a house in a lot of places..

Go look at what has actually happened since trickle down started. Hourly wages have remained stagnant while top pay has gotten higher and higher with huge stock buy backs making their stock holders wealthier but they don't spend it. They just accumulate more wealth.
 

Ranchdawg

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here is the problem.. Rich people don't take their money and do anything with it. They use other people's money to invest in infrastructure if it's a viable business, if not, they keep it. They already own homes, cars, boats etc.. Sure, they buy some but keep the majority. We keep going the way we are going, the middle class will be gone in 50 years. It's not an overnight thing. We have already gotten to the point that the younger generation can't buy a house in a lot of places..

Go look at what has actually happened since trickle down started. Hourly wages have remained stagnant while top pay has gotten higher and higher with huge stock buy backs making their stock holders wealthier but they don't spend it. They just accumulate more wealth.
Trickle down was way back with Reagan. 12 of the last 16byears have been under Democrats and it is worse now than it has ever been. I told you what rich people do with their money. They invest it. If government keeps paying people to not work the middle class will evaporate.
 

Hot Rock

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Trickle down was way back with Reagan. 12 of the last 16byears have been under Democrats and it is worse now than it has ever been. I told you what rich people do with their money. They invest it. If government keeps paying people to not work the middle class will evaporate.

Yes, you keep telling me the invest their money. Agreed, but that does not mean the create jobs or it helps the economy in anyway.

Rich build wealth by "INVESTING" in more things - diversifying their portfolio if you would. More stocks and more and more and more to the point that only a few control everything. Look again at that chart where the wealth is accumulating in the hands of the few. That's their individual goal, own more, get more. Many of them even believe that trickle down works as they "Earned" this money, they are not evil. But they do not use it to create jobs. Have you never heard to never use own money?

Companies operate with debt so the can pay stockholders dividends and do stock buy backs. They do not take any of the extra profits and invest just because they made more. Go look at the data. If they did, then my company wouldn't have Billions in debt, paying a 5% dividend and doing stock buy backs at the same time and not doing needed infrastructure repairs & upgrades. They only do infrastructure improvements that offer more payback than it cost to build and pay interest on said monies and they create debt to do it. Even small businesses incorporate to insure they can take the profits out and protect their wealth and try to pay a little as they have to pay.

So, yes the middle class is slowing disappearing and we can't fix it overnight as it didn't happen over night. The philosophy of trickle down never worked and never will work. Rich people have been saying stuff like "Let them EAT CAKE" or "don't feed the poor by paying them not to work" or even fly flags to society that existed only to enslave others. A country is judged by how well it treats its poor and the United States is horrible at it. We are so far down the line in that category that you have to go to 3rd world countries to find slums like we have here and we wonder why the US has a larger % of it's population in prison than any country. We do not care about taking care of our poor or paying a fair wage. We don't educate them or make sure they get proper healthcare. The state of Mississippi this year refused money to feed the poor children of our state during the summer. We think, "Let them Eat Cake".

Until middle class America actually sees this for themselves, nothing is changing. So, get WOKE you freaks! The data says it's headed that way now and we can stop it simply by some policy changes but people like you don't agree because you are fine. Let's get healthcare for everyone, set a standard minimum wage with inflation controls and just see what happens after 40-50 years. We have tried trickledown long enough, it's not working.
 

Ranchdawg

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Dec 13, 2012
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Yes, you keep telling me the invest their money. Agreed, but that does not mean the create jobs or it helps the economy in anyway.

Rich build wealth by "INVESTING" in more things - diversifying their portfolio if you would. More stocks and more and more and more to the point that only a few control everything. Look again at that chart where the wealth is accumulating in the hands of the few. That's their individual goal, own more, get more. Many of them even believe that trickle down works as they "Earned" this money, they are not evil. But they do not use it to create jobs. Have you never heard to never use own money?

Companies operate with debt so the can pay stockholders dividends and do stock buy backs. They do not take any of the extra profits and invest just because they made more. Go look at the data. If they did, then my company wouldn't have Billions in debt, paying a 5% dividend and doing stock buy backs at the same time and not doing needed infrastructure repairs & upgrades. They only do infrastructure improvements that offer more payback than it cost to build and pay interest on said monies and they create debt to do it. Even small businesses incorporate to insure they can take the profits out and protect their wealth and try to pay a little as they have to pay.

So, yes the middle class is slowing disappearing and we can't fix it overnight as it didn't happen over night. The philosophy of trickle down never worked and never will work. Rich people have been saying stuff like "Let them EAT CAKE" or "don't feed the poor by paying them not to work" or even fly flags to society that existed only to enslave others. A country is judged by how well it treats its poor and the United States is horrible at it. We are so far down the line in that category that you have to go to 3rd world countries to find slums like we have here and we wonder why the US has a larger % of it's population in prison than any country. We do not care about taking care of our poor or paying a fair wage. We don't educate them or make sure they get proper healthcare. The state of Mississippi this year refused money to feed the poor children of our state during the summer. We think, "Let them Eat Cake".

Until middle class America actually sees this for themselves, nothing is changing. So, get WOKE you freaks! The data says it's headed that way now and we can stop it simply by some policy changes but people like you don't agree because you are fine. Let's get healthcare for everyone, set a standard minimum wage with inflation controls and just see what happens after 40-50 years. We have tried trickledown long enough, it's not working.
So go China!
 

JackShephard

Active member
Sep 27, 2011
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The philosophy of trickle down never worked and never will work.
It actually worked great until about 2008/2009. Real compensation per hour grew at a steady, and healthy, pace from 1947 to about 1992/1993. Then, it actually dipped pretty drastically until about 1998. Afterwards, it grew at the steepest rate ever until about 2008 or early 2009. Then it slowed again until about 2020. It's still growing, but at a slower pace than in the past. Healthcare costs skyrocketing are the largest impact.

But go march in the streets. No one cares.
 
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Bulldog Bruce

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I knew this post went a little off the rails. To wrap it up I saw a story this morning that Christian McCaffery nixed the gift and said none of his family is going to pay to watch him play football.
 
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Ranchdawg

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2012
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It actually worked great until about 2008/2009. Real compensation per hour grew at a steady, and healthy, pace from 1947 to about 1992/1993. Then, it actually dipped pretty drastically until about 1998. Afterwards, it grew at the steepest rate ever until about 2008 or early 2009. Then it slowed again until about 2020. It's still growing, but at a slower pace than in the past. Healthcare costs skyrocketing are the largest impact.

But go march in the streets. No one cares.
Hot Rocks wants Communism. I agree with you but they(pronoun to protect feelings for their wokeness) won't be happy until the 1 percenters are stripped of land and money and put in their rightful place. All you SPS posters with money need to surrender it now!
 

MSUDOG24

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Mar 31, 2021
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I knew this post went a little off the rails. To wrap it up I saw a story this morning that Christian McCaffery nixed the gift and said none of his family is going to pay to watch him play football.
:) opened the thread to check the latest on Super Bowl suites and was quickly reminded, ah yes, this is where we are discussing trickle down econ and min wage.
 

JackShephard

Active member
Sep 27, 2011
1,155
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Hot Rocks wants Communism. I agree with you but they(pronoun to protect feelings for their wokeness) won't be happy until the 1 percenters are stripped of land and money and put in their rightful place. All you SPS posters with money need to surrender it now!
Oh, I know. I'd bet a lot of money that he's a Bernie Bro. However, he ignorantly tries to boil a very, VERY, complex issue down into one talking point he probably got from some left wing think tank like EPI or a crooked union boss. Like Reagan/trickle-down has been the ONLY thing affecting real wage growth for the last 43 years. lol. Last I checked, Reagan hasn't been in office since 1988 (no, I'm not counting a few days in January of 1989), and he's actually been dead for 20 years.

Since Reagan left office, we've had 20 years of Democrat presidents (16 repub), 12 democrat congresses (11 rep), and 12 democrat senates (11 rep). Democrats have even enjoyed super majorities under EACH of their 3 presidents since the great Ronald Reagan. Thousands (tens of thousands?) of people have made tens of thousands (100s of thousands?, millions?) of decisions that have all affected what Hot Garbage is railing on now. On top of that, statistics can always be manipulated to tell the desired story. Look at unemployment statistics. Choices regarding who to count, who not to count, when to count, how long to count, etc. all combine to make some imaginary number designed to make a certain political figure, or party, look good or bad. Same with the middle class stuff. It's a very intricate discussion with a lot of nuances and minute details that can be discussed and debated, but you have this jack wagon trying to boil it down to "durrrrr....Reagan.....muh....trickle down". Let's not talk about the effect that computers, automation, unions, AI, war, inflation, etc. have on this complicated topic. "It was all Reagan!". LOL
 

Ranchdawg

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2012
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Oh, I know. I'd bet a lot of money that he's a Bernie Bro. However, he ignorantly tries to boil a very, VERY, complex issue down into one talking point he probably got from some left wing think tank like EPI or a crooked union boss. Like Reagan/trickle-down has been the ONLY thing affecting real wage growth for the last 43 years. lol. Last I checked, Reagan hasn't been in office since 1988 (no, I'm not counting a few days in January of 1989), and he's actually been dead for 20 years.

Since Reagan left office, we've had 20 years of Democrat presidents (16 repub), 12 democrat congresses (11 rep), and 12 democrat senates (11 rep). Democrats have even enjoyed super majorities under EACH of their 3 presidents since the great Ronald Reagan. Thousands (tens of thousands?) of people have made tens of thousands (100s of thousands?, millions?) of decisions that have all affected what Hot Garbage is railing on now. On top of that, statistics can always be manipulated to tell the desired story. Look at unemployment statistics. Choices regarding who to count, who not to count, when to count, how long to count, etc. all combine to make some imaginary number designed to make a certain political figure, or party, look good or bad. Same with the middle class stuff. It's a very intricate discussion with a lot of nuances and minute details that can be discussed and debated, but you have this jack wagon trying to boil it down to "durrrrr....Reagan.....muh....trickle down". Let's not talk about the effect that computers, automation, unions, AI, war, inflation, etc. have on this complicated topic. "It was all Reagan!". LOL
Glad you brought up unemployment. That's a great one to use if the government rolls out programs for the unemployed. They fall off the list when they quit looking for work or their unemployment runs out. You can have millions out of work and they don't show.
 
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