A Comprehensive Look at what MSU is doing in student recruitment

[WilCoDawg]

615 wants to get another firmly worded DM it appears!***

I have heard recruiting is God-awful here in Nashville where it should be as big of a fishing hole as Memphis/Bham/ATL. There’s a lot of great students not from the area so their allegiance isn’t to any school locally. It should also be a draw for parents who want their kid at a “large” school but in a safer/smaller town.

I’ve been told by many friends and neighbors that MSU recruiters are uninterested, not engaging, and useless when it comes to attracting great kids who are seriously open to MSU. We lose 99% of the battles head-to-head against OM.

 

[615dawg]

My granddaughter is graduating high school in May, and after a lot of searching she decided to go to the University of Georgia since it's a really good school and isn't very far from home (she's just 17). She has a full ride there except for housing. Has a GPA of 4.5 and SAT 1490. She had full ride offers from several other schools (FSU, Alabama, UNC).

I don't see how State can offer scholarships for an ACT of just 21. That's barely literate isn't it?


Note that "ACT: writing section not included". Why not? Isn't the ability to write well something that's expected of a college student?

Hardly any school requires the writing section. Next year the science section becomes optional.

 

[vhdawg]

I made a 21 in 6th grade....I should have been Doogie Howser.

 

[615dawg]

615 wants to get another firmly worded DM it appears!***

I have heard recruiting is God-awful here in Nashville where it should be as big of a fishing hole as Memphis/Bham/ATL. There’s a lot of great students not from the area so their allegiance isn’t to any school locally. It should also be a draw for parents who want their kid at a “large” school but in a safer/smaller town.

I’ve been told by many friends and neighbors that MSU recruiters are uninterested, not engaging, and useless when it comes to attracting great kids who are seriously open to MSU. We lose 99% of the battles head-to-head against OM.

Nashville? Hell, they are disinterested in Jackson Metro kids from Prep, JA, MRA, Madison Central, NWR.

Meanwhile, Ole Miss has multiple admission counselors in every school in the metro every week. MSU will show up to college fairs and Ole Miss has admission counselors showing up to robotics tournaments, athletic contests, etc.

The Director of Admission at MSU reads the Pack. One of your counselors told me that the vast majority of MSU recruiters are just baby birds waiting on momma bird to bring them a potential student. You can read this entire thread and see that many have had this experience. I get that the scholarships will take time to change. What can change immediately is the recruiters giving a **** about getting students to MSU.

And the social media presence is awful.

The latest Instagram post from MSU:

"A guide to Starkville and MSU"

Our favorite ways to spend an afternoon: Taking a walk, dinner, workout class, the refuge, walk around lakes, north and south farms. Really?
Places to get smoothies
Events around town
Grab a bite: food trucks and sushi in the union? Starkville has great food
Study spots

The entire post is awful and alienates half the potential students. It reads like one interns opinion. Terrible font usage, photos are awful.

Meanwhile: Ole Miss looks incredible on social media: https://www.instagram.com/olemiss

 

[The Cooterpoot]

That OM acceptance rate is 98% and yall think we recruit lesser kids than them? Nah. I can't buy that at all. We need to revamp the hell out of stuff but that part I don't buy.

 

[Yeti]

I’ll bet OM gets 3 times the applications we do this year. Our social cool level is Zero ….sports matter we suck. And when on tv for football they show the crew the king Tut hat crew…fat asses with belly paint. They ain’t helping the image.

 

[615dawg]

I’ll bet OM gets 3 times the applications we do this year. Our social cool level is Zero ….sports matter we suck. And when on tv for football they show the crew the king Tut hat crew…fat asses with belly paint. They ain’t helping the image.

At a major university, sports have always the primary means of recruiting. I was between MSU and UAB and the allure of SEC sports got me to MSU. Sports are still important, but social presence has taken off in the past few years. I would opine that one of the most important positions on a college campus in 2025 is the social media manager and the communications and marketing director.

MSU just launched a new website in the past couple weeks. The primary video shows:

An obviously staged group of diverse students walking on the Drill Field laughing.
A female student working in a lab.
A drone shot of Bulldog Bash
3 PA students (Meridian campus)
2 agriculture students working in a field
Students pushing a car around a garage (its the ECOCAR but you dont know it - looks like a mechanic shop)
A drone shot of graduation with everyone fanning themselves (its hot in Mississippi)

That's the story we are trying to tell. Just like the IG post above, its a poor representation of MSU but its what we are putting out on social media.

 

[8dog]

At a major university, sports have always the primary means of recruiting. I was between MSU and UAB and the allure of SEC sports got me to MSU. Sports are still important, but social presence has taken off in the past few years. I would opine that one of the most important positions on a college campus in 2025 is the social media manager and the communications and marketing director.

MSU just launched a new website in the past couple weeks. The primary video shows:

An obviously staged group of diverse students walking on the Drill Field laughing.
A female student working in a lab.
A drone shot of Bulldog Bash
3 PA students (Meridian campus)
2 agriculture students working in a field
Students pushing a car around a garage (its the ECOCAR but you dont know it - looks like a mechanic shop)
A drone shot of graduation with everyone fanning themselves (its hot in Mississippi)

That's the story we are trying to tell. Just like the IG post above, its a poor representation of MSU but its what we are putting out on social media.

He’ll almost every school but state and OM have an acceptance rate below 50%. We should just set hp
A recruiting office at the strange brew in Northport

 

[mstateglfr]

It wasn't all through MSU. There are other scholarships available through the state and other places. Like I said, it might take a little work. Your high school guidance counsellor is supposed to know about this stuff. Ours didn't have the first clue. We picked the brains of a lot of people from different schools who had been down that road before us. I was using the same definition you do.

Oh, so not through the university. Yeah, I gotcha.

 

[BirdPuppy]

In addition to scholarships and poor athletics, can we all agree that Starkville is just not a place that many want to go to college? Starkville is making great strides, sure. However, everything on campus and in town feels stagnant and ran by people who love mediocrity.

I can’t agree. Living in the cotton district is kickass.

 

[QuadrupleOption]

We didn't have as thorough a search as you've done, but I said all along that all they wanted was our money. My son was 32 AcT and 4.o+ 2 years ago and did NOT get a full ride. They're attitude was like they just did not care about the success of the recruit.

My daughter got full tuition with a 30 ACT and a 3.9+ GPA. I'm not sure how your son missed out. Was it major related?

 

[mstateglfr]

Note that "ACT: writing section not included". Why not? Isn't the ability to write well something that's expected of a college student?

The writing section is optional to take and costs money to add it on. Almost no schools even want to see the writing section score, much less require it.
I dont disagree with your view that its important to write goodly, but it isnt a priority at all.

I took a creative writing class or something similar my freshman year and was shocked to see how far behind so many people were. Like 'bless your heart' level shocked. Its been 25 years of not emphasizing writing, at least from what I can see, definitely wont help things.

 

[leeinator]

IHL better get a plan together with how to handle the federal funds we're about to get. Dept. of Education is on the verge of shutting down. Most of that money will go to grades 1-12 throughout MS. The rest I assume to IHL. So that's about 100 Billion over 50 states and Puerto Rico. I guess Guam and some of the Pacific Islands under U.S. control get some too.

 

[patdog]

The writing section is optional to take and costs money to add it on. Almost no schools even want to see the writing section score, much less require it.
I dont disagree with your view that its important to write goodly, but it isnt a priority at all.

I took a creative writing class or something similar my freshman year and was shocked to see how far behind so many people were. Like 'bless your heart' level shocked. Its been 25 years of not emphasizing writing, at least from what I can see, definitely wont help things.

One of the best elective classes I took in college was Business Writing. It’s important, even in this email / digital age.

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

My daughter got full tuition with a 30 ACT and a 3.9+ GPA. I'm not sure how your son missed out. Was it major related?

I have no idea why

 

[L4Dawg]

Oh, so not through the university. Yeah, I gotcha.

Most of it was through MSU, but not all.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don’t know the ins and outs, but our geographic footprint should be like Mullen’s…..6 hours from campus in all directions. Offer instate tuition to all.

Be the affordable SEC school. We aren’t out-academic-ing anybody (in the SEC).

 

[Dawghouse]

Curious if everyone is using 'full ride' in the same manner.
That means the total cost of attending college is paid for. Tuition, room, board, fees, and usually books.

MSU is offering up full rides to kids who get a 31 or 32 on their ACT and have a a 4.0+ GPA?

Thats wild.

I think for most parents, full ride means they don't have to pay out of pocket. In that case my son is getting a full ride. Pell grant, federal loans, ACT scholarship, George Bishop scholarship. Not sure on exact numbers yet but he should have a little walking around money each year and he's off my payroll for 9 months of the year. 2 down, 2 to go.


In reality, full ride means the college is covering all expenses. That's what it meant when I went almost 30 years ago. Dang I'm old.

I can see both sides.

 

[mstateglfr]

I think for most parents, full ride means they don't have to pay out of pocket. In that case my son is getting a full ride. Pell grant, federal loans, ACT scholarship, George Bishop scholarship. Not sure on exact numbers yet but he should have a little walking around money each year and he's off my payroll for 9 months of the year. 2 down, 2 to go.


In reality, full ride means the college is covering all expenses. That's what it meant when I went almost 30 years ago. Dang I'm old.

I can see both sides.

Gotcha. Federal loans have to be paid back, but I guess since it's by the kid that changes things?
If someone takes loans out for their college expenses and parents pay nothing out of pocket as a result, that seems more like a delayed ride to me.

 

[Choctaw Dawg]

I graduated pre Covid from high school and had a State recruiter come multiple times to my school not for Joe blow like me who ended up graduating from state but mainly to pitch hard to two students they really wanted that had qualified for the Presidential Scholarship. Granted, they talked to everybody that was wanting to go to state but I caught on quick that was not their intent to be there for me and other students but really to pitch to those two. Ole Miss then had no presence in a lot of rural schools and it was a very well talked about point among teachers and other friends of mine at other area schools.

That has flipped, they have taken their online and local presence to another level after Covid and are pretty on par with local recruitment with state compared to when I was going through high school.

 

[L4Dawg]

The usual bashers here.

 

[Delmar]

Another anecdote about MSU efforts on recruiting. My daughter is a freshman in high school and somehow ended up on a college recruitment list. I assume it is from National Honors Society. She gets a ton of mail and email from Ole Miss, Alabama, Tulane, Duke, SMU, etc. I'd say Tulane send an email weekly telling about the things going on. She only gotten one piece of mail from State and nothing electronic. I agree the effort isn't there.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

A minor subject change, the "enrollment cliff," talked about a few years ago, still a concern?

 

[615dawg]

A minor subject change, the "enrollment cliff," talked about a few years ago, still a concern?

It’s a concern but not nearly as big of a concern as it is for the smaller colleges. I don’t know how MUW and Valley can exist in five years, and Delta State will struggle.

my guess is at least one of the small privates in the state will close. Probably Blue Mountain but Tougaloo will struggle as well. William Carey adding a medical school and pharmacy program saved that place.

 

[Perd Hapley]

“The People’s University”

As in….let’s cram as many people into this university as we can. Grades, background, or long term strategy be damned. That’s the answer to about every academic problem at MSU. It doesn’t matter what the question is.

I stopped reading when it was stated that there was nothing we could do about the Ayers settlement. There’s actually quite a bit that we can do about it, but nobody wants to, because it would hurt enrollment.

 

[woozman]

It wasn't all through MSU. There are other scholarships available through the state and other places. Like I said, it might take a little work. Your high school guidance counsellor is supposed to know about this stuff. Ours didn't have the first clue. We picked the brains of a lot of people from different schools who had been down that road before us. I was using the same definition you do.

Yep - dealing with this now. My daughter is locked in on State and barely looked at any other schools. 33 ACT and 4.0+ (#1 in her class). Her councilors have been really helpful and with what she’s getting from MSU (ACT, Bishop Family, and a department scholarship), locally (both recurring and 1 time), and a couple through the state - she will be right at a full ride (tuition, room, and board) for 4 years.

 

[Perd Hapley]

That OM acceptance rate is 98% and yall think we recruit lesser kids than them? Nah. I can't buy that at all. We need to revamp the hell out of stuff but that part I don't buy.

Just because they accept the same % of applications doesn’t mean they receive the same % of underperforming and mediocre students at the end of the day.

For anyone who truly cares about MSU trying to be better, and doing things to improve both the academics and athletics to somewhat align with what Ole Miss is doing in student recruitment, there is a very hard truth that must be accepted. While their acceptance rates and tolerance for underperforming students is the same on paper as MSU, Ole Miss has built an entire culture and brand around shunning and alienating students from the academic and economic backgrounds that MSU embraces.

And, for better or worse, that HELPS recruitment of higher performing students, and allows a larger percentage of those applicants to choose Ole Miss. The under-performers at Ole Miss that also don’t come from money feel unwelcome. So, they typically don’t show up to enroll, or don’t stick around long if they do. That helps them in all the academic rankings. And Ole Miss isn’t the only school that does this. In fact, MSU is pretty much the only SEC school that doesn’t. It’s not because MSU is so noble and inclusive, either. It has a lot more to do with demographics and politics of MSU’s footprint and Mississippi as a whole, and MSU doing what it must to maintain its current business model.

To be brutally honest, and you can call it life experience, enlightenment, cynicism or whatever else you want, but it just doesn’t really matter to me whether MSU improves its standing or not in these types of areas. Shít just ain’t that deep for me anymore. The facts as I see them are that even public colleges and universities are no different than 100% for-profit entities, except that get to hide behind a non-profit tax status. They are all just trying to sell you something, and it just depends on what it is that you want to buy. And in many cases, they have collectively thrived and grown by peddling a massive lie and brainwashing people into believing it. That lie is that in exchange for tuition payments, donations, etc., they provide you with an education, but more importantly an EXPERIENCE that you will look back on fondly forever. The truth is that you actually 100% provide that experience to yourself wherever you go, whether it’s good or bad. I just laugh when I hear people say things like “XYZ school made me who I am today”. No, it didn’t.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

It’s not because MSU is so noble and inclusive, either.

Look no further than this thread for proof of this. Many of our people would LOVE to be more exclusive. I mean this whole thread is full of humble braggers - "MY kid this, MY kid that, MY kid is better than MSU, blah blah blah....".

In fact, MSU is pretty much the only SEC school that doesn’t. ...........It has a lot more to do with demographics and politics of MSU’s footprint and Mississippi as a whole, and MSU doing what it must to maintain its current business model.

The answer for survival is right there under our nose.....lean into the People's University. We're a cow college after all. But we also have the SEC monikor and big state school status.

To be brutally honest, and you can call it life experience, enlightenment, cynicism or whatever else you want, but it just doesn’t really matter to me whether MSU improves its standing or not in these types of areas. Shít just ain’t that deep for me anymore. The facts as I see them are that even public colleges and universities are no different than 100% for-profit entities, except that get to hide behind a non-profit tax status. They are all just trying to sell you something, and it just depends on what it is that you want to buy. And in many cases, they have collectively thrived and grown by peddling a massive lie and brainwashing people into believing it. That lie is that in exchange for tuition payments, donations, etc., they provide you with an education, but more importantly an EXPERIENCE that you will look back on fondly forever. The truth is that you actually 100% provide that experience to yourself wherever you go, whether it’s good or bad. I just laugh when I hear people say things like “XYZ school made me who I am today”. No, it didn’t.

Can't say it much better than that. I don't love MSU because of my college experience, I love it because I just grew up with it. Sum of all parts. I could love MSU sports and have gone to college elsewhere. And vice versa and sideways and up and down.

 

[dogmatic001]

My kid's experience at MSU bears no resemblance to these stories. 32/4.0+. He did not get an official full ride, but when all was said and done, it WAS a full ride and then some. Now we had to do most of the work ourselves because the high school counselor was a non-entity. It sounds like a lot of your problems have more to do with the HS than MSU. We would have had a similar or worse story if we had relied on her.

Very similar experience here with two kids in recent years. Kid 1: 33 ACT, 4.0. Kid 2: 21 ACT, 3.5, Eagle Scout
My wife combed the internet and we applied for a score of scholarships for each of them.
Both will wind up with a more-or-less full ride to State if they manage their grades.
Both went to what I think of as one of the best high schools in the state, but assistance from the guidance counselor office was nonexistent. Less than zero help from there.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

It’s a concern but not nearly as big of a concern as it is for the smaller colleges. I don’t know how MUW and Valley can exist in five years, and Delta State will struggle.

my guess is at least one of the small privates in the state will close. Probably Blue Mountain but Tougaloo will struggle as well. William Carey adding a medical school and pharmacy program saved that place.

According to my friends in Cleveland, DSU is already struggling.

 

[mstateglfr]

Look no further than this thread for proof of this. Many of our people would LOVE to be more exclusive.

Yeah, it seems to be human nature to want to be higher than peers in rankings...as long as higher = better.

I mean this whole thread is full of humble braggers - "MY kid this, MY kid that, MY kid is better than MSU, blah blah blah....".

Havent noticed that feel in this thread. People citing specifics hasnt come off as humble bragging to me, it moreseo comes off as citing specifics to help illustrate differences between universities.

The answer for survival is right there under our nose.....lean into the People's University. We're a cow college after all. But we also have the SEC monikor and big state school status.

Yeah, I am good with that. I havent cared if MSU is 'highly ranked' or not for, well I guess I havent ever cared.
Even when it was at its highest ranking a decade or so ago, it was still way below a ton of large, midsized, and small colleges and universities. Whether we are ranked by some site as being 200th or 130th...I just dont think that fundamentally matters.




I will point out that you rant about Mississippi Brain Drain all the time, yet you are ripping on people for their kids choosing other schools based on MSU's lack of interest in recruiting and also due to receiving better financial offers elsewhere.
Keeping smart people in the state, and pulling smart people into the state, are both ways to help slow down that Brain Drain you rant about.
I would think you would spend your words on here complaining about how MSU needs to improve on snagging those students.

 

[00Dawg]

A word to the wise here: if your experience with State's scholarships isn't for a current high school student, you're now just a historical footnote we can use for perspective. They are updating the scholarship matrix every year. You can find the old ones around to view if you don't believe me.

In 2022, Out of State Tuition was $24,900, and an ACT of 27 got an OoS student $16,000 in instant scholarship.
Now, tuition is $27,637, and the award hasn't changed. Worse for my kid's perspective is that where an ACT of 30 (our goal for her next test) got you $19k in 2022, now you need a 31 to get to the next level ($20k). If you look at the latest matrix for OoS students, you can see that as of this past fall State doesn't care about your ACT until 31.

Also, as someone noted above, what's left of the alumni tuition waiver (it hasn't been 50% in a long time, and 100% even longer) can't stack to cover more then OoS tuition costs. Before you account for departmental scholarships, when you add in housing and food my daughter is going to have to choose between $91k in college costs at State, and $66k at UAB. If she gets to an ACT of 30, that latter number drops to $49k (which is pretty much just housing and food), and at 31, State drops to $82k.
I'm more than a little nervous to see what departmental scholarships each offers for Secondary Education - English.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I will point out that you rant about Mississippi Brain Drain all the time, yet you are ripping on people for their kids choosing other schools based on MSU's lack of interest in recruiting and also due to receiving better financial offers elsewhere.
Keeping smart people in the state, and pulling smart people into the state, are both ways to help slow down that Brain Drain you rant about.
I would think you would spend your words on here complaining about how MSU needs to improve on snagging those students.

I don't think it matters where you go to undergrad. Me personally, I do think a solid network is built in graduate school, if you choose to go that route.

So I see no reason why smart kids from MS can't go get a good education for cheaper at MSU.

As far as pulling in smart out-of-state kids, you know that's not happening no matter what we do.

 

[615dawg]

A word to the wise here: if your experience with State's scholarships isn't for a current high school student, you're now just a historical footnote we can use for perspective. They are updating the scholarship matrix every year. You can find the old ones around to view if you don't believe me.

In 2022, Out of State Tuition was $24,900, and an ACT of 27 got an OoS student $16,000 in instant scholarship.
Now, tuition is $27,637, and the award hasn't changed. Worse for my kid's perspective is that where an ACT of 30 (our goal for her next test) got you $19k in 2022, now you need a 31 to get to the next level ($20k). If you look at the latest matrix for OoS students, you can see that as of this past fall State doesn't care about your ACT until 31.

Also, as someone noted above, what's left of the alumni tuition waiver (it hasn't been 50% in a long time, and 100% even longer) can't stack to cover more then OoS tuition costs. Before you account for departmental scholarships, when you add in housing and food my daughter is going to have to choose between $91k in college costs at State, and $66k at UAB. If she gets to an ACT of 30, that latter number drops to $49k (which is pretty much just housing and food), and at 31, State drops to $82k.
I'm more than a little nervous to see what departmental scholarships each offers for Secondary Education - English.

Another thing that is happening in our region is Florida schools have made their in-state tuition the lowest in the nation. The University of Florida is $3100 a semester. They will generally waive OOS tuition beginning in the 30-31 range, but there is a law if you have a grandparent that lives in Florida, you can receive in-state tuition. You can also enroll online at the in-state rate, which will become an option for students in the future.


We've got to get creative.

Florida Solved the Student Debt Crisis While You Weren’t Looking

The real cost of college is on most parents’ minds—in more ways than one. At a time of runaway inflation, every penny counts. And, well, higher education costs a pretty penny. That’s

www.realcleareducation.com

 

[johnson86-1]

Average ACT in MS is 17.5.

I'm not actually disagreeing with the premise that 21 is too low for a scholarship, just pointing out a 21 isn't average for MS. If your goal is to educate Mississippians, you're going to have to make it accessible to "average" students who need financial assistance.

The national average is 19.5.

Just an FYI, total cost of attendance is ~ 23k per year in state.

Federal Pell grant ~7k
Federal loans 5500

That puts students 10k short per year. Without offering some extra scholarships MSU is inaccessible to a large swath of the state.

I'm not sure you can compare MS average ACT to the national average because the SAT is the test of choice in many states. Just like MS used to have a higher than average SAT because only better students looking to leave the state or maximize their scholarship money took it, lots of other states were reversed, where only the better students looking to maximize their scholarship money or try a different alternative to get into selective universities took it. That may have changed now and maybe most of the country does take the ACT. Not sure.

 

[mstateglfr]

I don't think it matters where you go to undergrad. Me personally, I do think a solid network is built in graduate school, if you choose to go that route.

Agreed. My oldest niece is at a tiny college 400mi away because she would have $0 debt when graduating, by working 10 hours a week at a dorm desk. Nobody in our extended family had even heard of the college.
She is looking at grad schools now and will select one that is financially smart while also being 'a name'.
Damn smart route for sure.

So I see no reason why smart kids from MS can't go get a good education for cheaper at MSU.

Thats one of the points of this thread- MSU hasnt actively recruited as well as other universities or made the cost to attend as low as other universities.

As far as pulling in smart out-of-state kids, you know that's not happening no matter what we do.

Sure it can happen and is happening. With additional incentive, it could possibly happen more.

 

[mstateglfr]

I'm not sure you can compare MS average ACT to the national average because the SAT is the school of choice in many states.

What are we in right now...1975 or 2025?
The SAT is strongly preferred by a handful of highly selective universities, but otherwise both tests are accepted. So if you look at the number of higher education institutions, the ones that say 'SAT only!' is basically not even a measurable percentage.

That may have changed now and maybe most of the country does take the ACT. Not sure.

The number of ACT and SAT tests taken in recent years pretty similar. 45% of total tests are ACT.





If a state's average test score is low, its because students in that state didnt score well. Simple as that.

 

[johnson86-1]

What are we in right now...1975 or 2025?
The SAT is strongly preferred by a handful of highly selective universities, but otherwise both tests are accepted. So if you look at the number of higher education institutions, the ones that say 'SAT only!' is basically not even a measurable percentage.

It doesn't matter what schools accept. It matters what students take. I checked and it doesn't look like it has changed much. At least as recently as 2022, Mississippi had the 5th highest average SAT score. Again, because only people interested in going off to schools or maximizing their scholarship money or acceptance take it.

The number of ACT and SAT tests taken in recent years pretty similar. 45% of total tests are ACT.





If a state's average test score is low, its because students in that state didnt score well. Simple as that.

According to the google machine, you are incorrect on this. In Mississippi, basically 100% of high school graduates take the ACT and only 1% take the SAT. In Illinois, ~43% of students take the ACT and 96% take the SAT. In New York, ~8% take the ACT and 61% take the SAT (that is shockingly low for both; they should have great average scores). In Connecticut, 8% take the ACT and 98% take the SAT. In Iowa, 48% take the ACT and 2-12% take the SAT (another state that should have great standardized test scores). In Texas, 73% take the SAT and 22% take the ACT (this one surprised me). In California 3-4% take the ACT and 24% take the SAT (Surely that's not right? Less than a 1/3 of graduating high schoolers take some sort of college entrance test?) ; In Florida 95% take the SAT and 44% take the ACT (another one that surprises me).

So the mix is not the same at all from state to state and you can't just compare. Of course our average of 100% of high school students is going to be worse than a similarly situated state where only 44% of the students take the ACT, because we haev a lot of people with no interest or ability in college taking the ACT.

 

[mstateglfr]

It doesn't matter what schools accept. It matters what students take. I checked and it doesn't look like it has changed much. At least as recently as 2022, Mississippi had the 5th highest average SAT score. Again, because only people interested in going off to schools or maximizing their scholarship money or acceptance take it.

Again for me then too, only a very select handful of universities in the country are 'SAT only'. It is incorrect to claim that 'only people interested in going off to schools or maximizing their scholarship money or acceptance take it.'
Taking the SAT doesnt magically maximize scholarship money. There may be some wonky scholarships that are SAT based only, but that has to be like .001% of all scholarships in existence.

According to the google machine, you are incorrect on this. In Mississippi, basically 100% of high school graduates take the ACT and only 1% take the SAT. In Illinois, ~43% of students take the ACT and 96% take the SAT. In New York, ~8% take the ACT and 61% take the SAT (that is shockingly low for both; they should have great average scores). In Connecticut, 8% take the ACT and 98% take the SAT. In Iowa, 48% take the ACT and 2-12% take the SAT (another state that should have great standardized test scores). In Texas, 73% take the SAT and 22% take the ACT (this one surprised me). In California 3-4% take the ACT and 24% take the SAT (Surely that's not right? Less than a 1/3 of graduating high schoolers take some sort of college entrance test? In Florida 95% take the SAT and 44% take the ACT (another one that surprises me).

So the mix is not the same at all from state to state and you can't just compare. Of course our average of 100% of high school students is going to be worse than a similarly situated state where only 44% of the students take the ACT, because we haev a lot of people with no interest or ability in college taking the ACT.

I am not incorrect in either of the two comments you are responding to.
- About 55% of tests were SAT and 45% were ACT. That is correct.
- If a state's average test score is low, its because students in that state didnt score well. That is correct.

Its bonkers that you are claiming students not scoring well isnt what makes a state's average test score low.
And if you arent claiming that, then why did you quote that point of mine and say it is incorrect?

It doesnt matter if basically everyone in a state takes one test and not another. The test's average is high or low based on if students do well or not.
I understand your point- you cant compare apples to apples if one state test all students and another state tests only students who are intending to enroll in college. Yes, one state will have a higher test average than the other...obviously. But that isnt what was being discussed earlier, so its not worth clarifying and trying to separate now.

 

[johnson86-1]

Again for me then too, only a very select handful of universities in the country are 'SAT only'. It is incorrect to claim that 'only people interested in going off to schools or maximizing their scholarship money or acceptance take it.'
Taking the SAT doesnt magically maximize scholarship money. There may be some wonky scholarships that are SAT based only, but that has to be like .001% of all scholarships in existence.

People don't take the SAT because scholarships are SAT only; they take the SAT because some people do better on the SAT than the ACT.

I am not incorrect in either of the two comments you are responding to.
- About 55% of tests were SAT and 45% were ACT. That is correct.

Ok, then you were nonresponsive and didn't understand the comment you were responding to. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

- If a state's average test score is low, its because students in that state didnt score well. That is correct.

Its bonkers that you are claiming students not scoring well isnt what makes a state's average test score low.
And if you arent claiming that, then why did you quote that point of mine and say it is incorrect?

It's axiomatic that low average test scores are due to students doing poorly on it. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you understood but were typing imprecisely because it's a message board and not that you were stating something that was completely irrelevant like describing what an average means.

It doesnt matter if basically everyone in a state takes one test and not another. The test's average is high or low based on if students do well or not.
I understand your point- you cant compare apples to apples if one state test all students and another state tests only students who are intending to enroll in college. Yes, one state will have a higher test average than the other...obviously. But that isnt what was being discussed earlier, so its not worth clarifying and trying to separate now.

Except it was exactly what was being discussed. That was the entire point of my statement in response to somebody pointing out that MS's average is 17.5 and the national average is 19.5, as if we can't expect to do any better. I even bolded the two statements I was responding to.

I'm not sure you can compare MS average ACT to the national average because the SAT is the test of choice in many states. Just like MS used to have a higher than average SAT because only better students looking to leave the state or maximize their scholarship money took it, lots of other states were reversed, where only the better students looking to maximize their scholarship money or try a different alternative to get into selective universities took it. That may have changed now and maybe most of the country does take the ACT. Not sure.