Another EV thread

[T-TownDawgg]

I'm down for anything bringing more competition and innovation to the vehicle market, but instead of slowly leaning toward considering EV's, I'm going the other way. In just the last week:

•Ford jacks the price of the new Lightning 7-9k, depending on trim. JoeLee'sSocks must have smelled trouble coming when he pawned off that reservation. The damn thing will be 100k+ by the time it gets delivered.

•The gubmint EV tax credit will essentially exist on paper ONLY since no EV'S currently on sale or on the horizon will qualify. Too much of the batteries are made in China and necessary trace metals are still being salvaged by children in African countries.

For shame. Good on ya, US government, for your righteous indignation**

•Toyota, who is one of a couple manufacturers I thought capable of building a sensible, reliable, and affordable EV, rolled out an interesting model, the bZ4X. This week the company issued not just a recall, but a BUYBACK for customers who want it because the 17IN WHEELS ARE FALLING OFF and engineers are scrambling to figure out the solution.

I'm squarely in the 17 EV's camp. Change my mind.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Wheels falling off doesn't seem EV related, but how do we get this far in automotive design and ever have that issue along with "engineers are scrambling to figure out the solution". I'm gonna suggest lug nuts.

 

[dorndawg]

Tesla has the top two selling vehicles in California this year. I'm certainly no Tesla fanboy, and it will be a while before I personally have an EV. They have some legitimate obstacles to wider usage, but at this point being bearish EV's is the same as being bullish on horse buggies 100 years ago.

https://electrek.co/2022/08/09/tesl...g-vehicles-california-pushing-evs-new-record/

 

[T-TownDawgg]

I’m thinking it has something to do with the regenerative braking system. Yes, lug nuts or studs should be a typical recall.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

wow

 

[Xenomorph]

GM will give you $6K off a Chevy Bolt if you promise to not sue them for the battery catching fire.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

****, that was the other bullet point I forgot. It’s essentially a settlement/release, hidden in the fine print of a rebate. Clever beancounters at GM never cease to amaze me.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Ford is claiming "significant material cost increases and other factors".

Ford is one of the most mismanaged car companies in the world. This is a company whose last stock peak was in the late 90s.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/09/ford-increasing-price-of-electric-f-150-lightning-.html

 

[The Peeper]

I won't be buying one any time soon, probably never since I've recently entered my 60's. I live in Starkville, who the hell is going to work on a new electric vehicle here? I'm not going to take off work to drive a few hours to get my car worked on and not planning on having it towed either if it won't run. Get your damn electric car 'offa my lawn!

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

•Ford jacks the price of the new Lightning 7-9k, depending on trim. JoeLee'sSocks must have smelled trouble coming when he pawned off that reservation. The damn thing will be 100k+ by the time it gets delivered.

I'm squarely in the 17 EV's camp. Change my mind.

Busted.

As soon as I didn't get selected for the 2022 allocation, I knew the big price increase was coming. New price $80k on the XLT with 300m range I would have been interested in. I'm keeping my reservation just so when someone calls or emails me, I can give them a 17 you in the form of Clark W Griswold's Christmas Vacation "Where's the Tylenol" speech. Someone is definitely getting called a spotty-lipped sack of monkey ****.

We bailed on it completely a few months ago other than waiting to shake my pecker at some poor sales guy when they finally reach out. I have to have a 3/4 ton, but wanted something for me and my wife to run around town in and not have to pay for gas. Electric makes a lot of sense where I live. Gas is $4.92 a gallon (just filled up) and electricity is $.075 per KWH. But we also live in the mountains 100+ miles from any charging network.

We just traded my wife's 2017 Volvo in on a plugin hybrid Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. +/-30 miles on electric only. That's more than enough for running around town. But we also have a gas tank and felt perfectly comfortable taking it through one of the most remote areas in the lower 48 back and forth to Glacier NP last month.

After trade in and tax credit (it qualifies for the full $7500) we have a net cost of $15k and on gas savings alone (her Volvo required premium gas) it pays for itself in about 5.5 years. Moreover, we have a Jeep Rubicon with almost as much horsepower (375hp) and more torque (470ft/lbs) than my F250. It's really, really fun driving on trails in this bad boy.

View attachment 24872

EV's are one or two generations from working out as anything other than a second car for people that don't live in a house in a metro area (can't charge it if you park on the street at an apartment.) But plug in hybrids are a really good alternative if most of your driving is in town and you still need the freedom of going anywhere.

 

[patdog]

We just traded my wife's 2017 Volvo in on a plugin hybrid Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. +/-30 miles on electric only. That's more than enough for running around town. But we also have a gas tank and felt perfectly comfortable taking it through one of the most remote areas in the lower 48 back and forth to Glacier NP last month.

EV's are one or two generations from working out as anything other than a second car for people that don't live in a house in a metro area (can't charge it if you park on the street at an apartment.) But plug in hybrids are a really good alternative if most of your driving is in town and you still need the freedom of going anywhere.

I don't know why they're not pushing the plug-in hybrids more. You get well over half the benefit of an EV at a fraction of the cost and a lot more convenience. Actually, I do know why they're not pushing them more. They just make too much damn sense and don't fit the agenda.

 

[aTotal360]

It's weird to me that there isn't enough buzz around regular hybrids. All the focus is on pure EVs. We have a hybrid that gets 41 mpg. One of the best vehicles I've ever owned.

I know there is a stigma with Priuses, but there are so many other options out there. The Toyota Highlander Hybrid and Ford Fusion Hybrid are both awesome vehicles that get very little love.

 

[mstateglfr]

I don't know why they're not pushing the plug-in hybrids more. You get well over half the benefit of an EV at a fraction of the cost and a lot more convenience. Actually, I do know why they're not pushing them more. They just make too much damn sense and don't fit the agenda.

They are relatively new to the scene and are being pushed as quickly as possible. Everything is in short supply right now, even ICE vehicles. If PHEVs are still scarce even after the overall vehicle shortage is over, then your conspiracy may be mildly valid.
PHEVs are not sold in my state. I am guessing they are not sold in MS either, but thats just based on both states having similar approaches to air quality requirements. Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, Toyota RAV4 Prime, Hyundai Sante Fe and Tucson PHEVs, and Hyundai Ioniq PHEV are all not sold here because they are allocated to states with emissions laws that require manufactures comply with some sales standards. Its the same with full EVs- not sold here.

All these vehicles are in limited supply and high demand.

 

[johnson86-1]

Busted.

As soon as I didn't get selected for the 2022 allocation, I knew the big price increase was coming. New price $80k on the XLT with 300m range I would have been interested in. I'm keeping my reservation just so when someone calls or emails me, I can give them a 17 you in the form of Clark W Griswold's Christmas Vacation "Where's the Tylenol" speech. Someone is definitely getting called a spotty-lipped sack of monkey ****.

We bailed on it completely a few months ago other than waiting to shake my pecker at some poor sales guy when they finally reach out. I have to have a 3/4 ton, but wanted something for me and my wife to run around town in and not have to pay for gas. Electric makes a lot of sense where I live. Gas is $4.92 a gallon (just filled up) and electricity is $.075 per KWH. But we also live in the mountains 100+ miles from any charging network.

We just traded my wife's 2017 Volvo in on a plugin hybrid Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. +/-30 miles on electric only. That's more than enough for running around town. But we also have a gas tank and felt perfectly comfortable taking it through one of the most remote areas in the lower 48 back and forth to Glacier NP last month.

After trade in and tax credit (it qualifies for the full $7500) we have a net cost of $15k and on gas savings alone (her Volvo required premium gas) it pays for itself in about 5.5 years. Moreover, we have a Jeep Rubicon with almost as much horsepower (375hp) and more torque (470ft/lbs) than my F250. It's really, really fun driving on trails in this bad boy.

View attachment 24872

EV's are one or two generations from working out as anything other than a second car for people that don't live in a house in a metro area (can't charge it if you park on the street at an apartment.) But plug in hybrids are a really good alternative if most of your driving is in town and you still need the freedom of going anywhere.

You mean your net cost after trade-in, correct? Are those wrangler's not $60k?

 

[aTotal360]

Damn near every Jeep is 20% more than you think.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I don't know why they're not pushing the plug-in hybrids more. You get well over half the benefit of an EV at a fraction of the cost and a lot more convenience. Actually, I do know why they're not pushing them more. They just make too much damn sense and don't fit the agenda.

You are correct Sir! I wrote that a long time ago that there is space for a reasonable solution to this issue but there is no desire to approach it that way. They leftist want absolutely no gas being produced. This all or nothing thinking is retarded. Hybrids make the most sense right now for a positive step in decreasing emissions. It should be easier to make it so a person can have a "commuter vehicle" that costs them no additional dollars in insurance, registrations and licensing. Make insurance cover the driver and not the vehicle. It gets charged at the higher rate between your gas car and your commuter car but it covers both vehicles. Licensing and registration should cost nothing for a commuter vehicle if you have a traditional vehicle also. Again charge it as a package deal. I would drive a commuter vehicle locally and use my truck for towing or when I have to get a load of something or when I have a long trip. Those things are maybe 25-30% of my vehicle usage. Most of my usage is local and could be done with a commuter vehicle.

If you just get millions of people to cut down their carbon based driving 50 percent, then you have made a huge dent.

 

[fevans]

I'm down for anything bringing more competition and innovation to the vehicle market, but instead of slowly leaning toward considering EV's, I'm going the other way. In just the last week:

•Ford jacks the price of the new Lightning 7-9k, depending on trim. JoeLee'sSocks must have smelled trouble coming when he pawned off that reservation. The damn thing will be 100k+ by the time it gets delivered.

•The gubmint EV tax credit will essentially exist on paper ONLY since no EV'S currently on sale or on the horizon will qualify. Too much of the batteries are made in China and necessary trace metals are still being salvaged by children in African countries.

For shame. Good on ya, US government, for your righteous indignation**

•Toyota, who is one of a couple manufacturers I thought capable of building a sensible, reliable, and affordable EV, rolled out an interesting model, the bZ4X. This week the company issued not just a recall, but a BUYBACK for customers who want it because the 17IN WHEELS ARE FALLING OFF and engineers are scrambling to figure out the solution.

I'm squarely in the 17 EV's camp. Change my mind.

View attachment 24873

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

You mean your net cost after trade-in, correct? Are those wrangler's not $60k?

Yes, net after trade. They start at $58k for the Rubicon PHEV. After tax credit, we will have paid almost exactly the cost of a Rubicon V6 ICE with the same features. Goons gave us $40k for a 5 year old Volvo XC90 with 55k miles that was nearly totaled in a 2019 hailstorm.

View attachment 24874

Even though it was paid for, I figured it would cost $10k in repairs when something went wrong over the next 5 years, plus the premium gas it sucked down is near $6.00/gallon. That Volvo should have been worth $20k max, but these are the times.

 

[aTotal360]

That'll buff out.

 

[WrapItDog]

electricity is $.075 per KWH

You must be tight with Putin. The national avg is about $.15 per KWH

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

I love my electric car. Best decision I ever made. Plus, I get the $7,500 tax credit since I acted quickly on it. My electric bill was up about $50 for the month when I usually spend a little over $400 in gas. Plus no oil changes, transmission fluid changes, coolant, or any other fluid except windshield wiper fluid.

Best decision I ever made. I've had multiple coworkers I took on a drive say their next vehicle will be electric.

I live just north of Tupelo and work in the industrial park by the airport in Columbus.

 

[fevans]

That'll buff out.

Actually, a good paintless dent repair guy could fix all that without painting the vehicle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6OCgY1grCU

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Lucky enough not to be very reliant on natural gas in our area. Hydro is the biggest source with a decent mix of wind/solar/coal/and nat gas to round out the mix.

But I do stand corrected. Energy inflation is catching up to us. A little over $.08 now. ***

View attachment 24875

 

[Yeti]

I bought the F150 hybrid. No plug in but the dang thing gets 25 mpg in the city of Memphis ( I only slow down at red lights so I don’t get jacked) Out in the country on roads to my farm and back I get dang near 28. Running 75 to pickwick and back it’s 21.5 but that’s not bad. Seems to me as a viable option until full EV

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Actually, a good paintless dent repair guy could fix all that without painting the vehicle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6OCgY1grCU

Lol. Don't get your hopes up. They can't fix it on the creases. And there were plenty in the creases. If you have less than 30 dings, paintless is an option. But there rates are $50 per square inch of repair. It would have cost $250k to use paintless on the Volvo.

My F150 was out there as well in that storm. I replaced the windshield and found a $500 hood that matched perfectly on Craigslist. Pocket $12k from the insurance company. I figured the roof was so high it wouldn't bother me and the bed was fine due to bedliner. You could only see the dents on the fenders and doors and they were minimal, relatively speaking.

Just to do dentless on the fenders and doors was going to be $8k and because the hail came straight down, they were barely hit. I lived with the dents and drove the **** outta that truck.

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

I work in sales at a locally owned Ford dealership in Brookhaven. We have 5 orders for Lightnings. We have allocation for 1. We have sold 2 Mach Es is 18 months, both to out of state customers. We have one Lightning mannequin that can't be sold until 6 months or 6,000 miles. It is a cluster 17.

Hybrid vehicles, like the F150 Powerboost, are the way to go. However, the leftists are shoving pure EVs down everyone's throats. The leadership at Ford is in lock-step with the current administration and the like.

Now Ford is gong to force ICE/ EV certified dealers like ours to make a choice between the two. They've cut our allocation of wholesale by 80%. We are required to now match retail orders with buyers at least 75% of retail sales. So, the days of full new car lots are over.

It's been a rough period of adjustment, and we are still selling vehicles -at sticker- when we get shipments in. I absolutely agree that buying new right now is the way to go, IF you can find one.

 

[Kenny.sixpack]

I love my electric car. Best decision I ever made. Plus, I get the $7,500 tax credit since I acted quickly on it. My electric bill was up about $50 for the month when I usually spend a little over $400 in gas. Plus no oil changes, transmission fluid changes, coolant, or any other fluid except windshield wiper fluid.

Best decision I ever made. I've had multiple coworkers I took on a drive say their next vehicle will be electric.

I live just north of Tupelo and work in the industrial park by the airport in Columbus.

I bought a used 2021 Tesla Model S with 150 miles on it this year. Works great. It is very doable now as the range is comparable to a typical gas car and we can take road trips as there are many places to stop for supercharging along the interstates. Using an EV is very doable and reliable method of transportation now. I would not have said that even two years ago.

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

Ford is offering up to $7,000 rebate to placeholders of 22 Lightnings that have to wait for the 23s. So, the good news is, it's a wash on sticker price.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

I bought a used 2021 Tesla Model S with 150 miles on it this year. Works great. It is very doable now as the range is comparable to a typical gas car and we can take road trips as there are many places to stop for supercharging along the interstates. Using an EV is very doable and reliable method of transportation now. I would not have said that even two years ago.

I don't own a Tesla, but changed my mind on EVs after getting in my friend's model 3. One time changed my mind. He also let me drive it and let me accelerate. Like he said, you have to have the steering wheel in your hand to feel the power.

He went to the Final Four this year in New Orleans. Drove from Birmingham. Two stops. One for 10 minutes, another for 30. Got lunch on the longer stop. Yeah, it's totally doable.

But the crowd that's never been in one and is totally against them? I can't blame them. I was in their camp until I got in one myself.

 

[mstateglfr]

I wrote that a long time ago that there is space for a reasonable solution to this issue but there is no desire to approach it that way. They leftist want absolutely no gas being produced. This all or nothing thinking is retarded. Hybrids make the most sense right now for a positive step in decreasing emissions.

Oh good lord.

1- Some on the left are militant and will yell and demand we immediately remove ourselves from oil. That is clearly unreasonable and they are clearly an extreme minority. They are similar to the extreme on the right who denies oil production harms the environment and demands we reduce/eliminate clean air standards. As with most issues, the extremes are unrealistic fools and should not be cited as holding the common view.

2- Stop with the R word. Its been 20 years of pushing for it to end, you just dont need to use it, so be cool and choose to use a different word. It just isnt difficult to be nice.

3- We as a country are absolutely approaching this in the way you say isnt happening. We are slowly moving away from oil and slowly moving to electric. As technology improves, that movement will increase. Expectations for reducing oil by X or having MPG at Y are all set for years from now to allow for the very approach you want. Hybrids have, and continue to be, part of that solution.
Hybrids are in trucks, cars, and SUVs. Many arent called hybrds for the perceived negative connection, especially in trucks that may be seen as too weak.
The US buys over 1/3 of all hybrids in the world as of a few years ago and over 800,000 vehicles sold last year were hybrids(that are identified as such, so the real number is higher).


I am all for positive steps towards reducing emissions that also make sense/are realistic. Hybrids are part of that approach and it isnt some secret. Its been known for a long time and implementation/adoption of the tech would have come sooner if there hadnt been so much irrational pushback by legislators and society.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

GM will give you $6K off a Chevy Bolt if you promise to not sue them for the battery catching fire.

It's almost like there is so much money against EV's that they have to perfect in order to not get headlines against them. But EV's in general catch fire much less often than traditional ICE cars.

https://belux.edmo.eu/fact-check-do-electric-cars-catch-fire-more-often-than-combustion-engine-cars/

https://insideevs.com/news/561549/study-evs-smallest-fire-risk/

https://ndakotalaw.com/do-electric-cars-catch-fire-more-than-gas-powered-vehicles/


One caveat to that is this: If the extremely unlikely event an EV does catch fire, it will just have to burn itself out. But as far as numbers go - EVs in general are much less likely to catch fire than either an ICE car or a hybrid. My coworker is against EVs (but hasn't yet gotten in mine) said he didn't believe the numbers. I told him he might not like them, but they are what they are.

 

[Dawg1976]

I would be more comfortable with a PHEV at this point. Bought a new suv(gas) last year so I will be good for several years. I'm 68 so who knows how I will feel about it all in my mid 70's when I'm ready for something new. Of course I could go belly up before I have to decide......

 

[Cooterpoot]

With AI taking over the world, we'll be driving electric, sports will be electronic, hell, we'll be screwing robots. I've got real concerns about enough electricity and battery availability.
Then, when you see electricity production is the most polluting thing on the planet, we're all 17'd by electric- Literally.*

 

[af102]

It's almost as if the car dealer setup is a relic of a past era that is no longer needed. It's silly to me that cars are one of the only things we use that I can't buy directly from the manufacturer (not counting the Tesla/Rivian/non-legacy car makers).

If a few large states would just pass laws allowing direct car sales alongside the dealership model, we would see the incentive structure at dealerships completely change. I understand the need to check out a used car in person, but if I'm dead set on buying X car, I just want to order it and have it delivered to my house with as little fuss as possible.

/end rant

 

[mstateglfr]

My coworker is against EVs (but hasn't yet gotten in mine) said he didn't believe the numbers. I told him he might not like them, but they are what they are.

There is a lot of this in the last handful of years.

 

[Drebin]

Oh good lord.

1- Some on the left are militant and will yell and demand we immediately remove ourselves from oil. That is clearly unreasonable and they are clearly an extreme minority. They are similar to the extreme on the right who denies oil production harms the environment and demands we reduce/eliminate clean air standards. As with most issues, the extremes are unrealistic fools and should not be cited as holding the common view.

2- Stop with the R word. Its been 20 years of pushing for it to end, you just dont need to use it, so be cool and choose to use a different word. It just isnt difficult to be nice.

3- We as a country are absolutely approaching this in the way you say isnt happening. We are slowly moving away from oil and slowly moving to electric. As technology improves, that movement will increase. Expectations for reducing oil by X or having MPG at Y are all set for years from now to allow for the very approach you want. Hybrids have, and continue to be, part of that solution.
Hybrids are in trucks, cars, and SUVs. Many arent called hybrds for the perceived negative connection, especially in trucks that may be seen as too weak.
The US buys over 1/3 of all hybrids in the world as of a few years ago and over 800,000 vehicles sold last year were hybrids(that are identified as such, so the real number is higher).


I am all for positive steps towards reducing emissions that also make sense/are realistic. Hybrids are part of that approach and it isnt some secret. Its been known for a long time and implementation/adoption of the tech would have come sooner if there hadnt been so much irrational pushback by legislators and society.

I like the word retarded. It's functional and serves a purpose.

You were clearly absent the day they taught "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" in kindergarten.

 

[dorndawg]

I like the word retarded. It's functional and serves a purpose.

You were clearly absent the day they taught "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" in kindergarten.

I can just about guarantee you, there are a lot of Bulldog fans who read this site who have loved ones with severe intellectual disabilities. You're a good dude and a good Bulldog - consider taking it out of your vocabulary.

https://www.specialolympics.org/stories/impact/why-the-r-word-is-the-r-slur

 

[dorndawg]

With AI taking over the world, we'll be driving electric, sports will be electronic, hell, we'll be screwing robots. I've got real concerns about enough electricity and battery availability.
Then, when you see electricity production is the most polluting thing on the planet, we're all 17'd by electric- Literally.*

This is why I say please & thank you when I ask Siri something - Ima be on the robots good side.

 

[Drebin]

I can just about guarantee you, there are a lot of Bulldog fans who read this site who have loved ones with severe intellectual disabilities. You're a good dude and a good Bulldog - consider taking it out of your vocabulary.

https://www.specialolympics.org/stories/impact/why-the-r-word-is-the-r-slur

I have a loved one with a severe intellectual disability. When I use that word, it's not directed toward him or people like him. So, I think thou dost protest too much. You can make a personal choice about whether you want to use a certain word, but don't immediately assume an ill motive or a character flaw with someone else because they don't feel victimized by such words.

Words aren't violence, no matter how much you bleeding hearts want them to be.

 

[Hot Rock]

I'm down for anything bringing more competition and innovation to the vehicle market, but instead of slowly leaning toward considering EV's, I'm going the other way. In just the last week:

•Ford jacks the price of the new Lightning 7-9k, depending on trim. JoeLee'sSocks must have smelled trouble coming when he pawned off that reservation. The damn thing will be 100k+ by the time it gets delivered.

•The gubmint EV tax credit will essentially exist on paper ONLY since no EV'S currently on sale or on the horizon will qualify. Too much of the batteries are made in China and necessary trace metals are still being salvaged by children in African countries.

For shame. Good on ya, US government, for your righteous indignation**

•Toyota, who is one of a couple manufacturers I thought capable of building a sensible, reliable, and affordable EV, rolled out an interesting model, the bZ4X. This week the company issued not just a recall, but a BUYBACK for customers who want it because the 17IN WHEELS ARE FALLING OFF and engineers are scrambling to figure out the solution.

I'm squarely in the 17 EV's camp. Change my mind.

those
I am clearly in the camp of --- undecided but intrigued by the idea. You absolutely expect some issues when anything new comes about. Your worries will be addressed or they won't but I think most will be worked out over the next 5-8 years and we all will be at least considering them.

Thing is, the US only makes up 4% of the world and the world is saying this happening. This is not a US led thing.

I like the idea of the plug in hybrid but most places in the world don't drive as far as we do in the US. The avg distance per trip driven in Europe is 3 miles. Not me, my commute is 24 miles one way and I go to the lake which is 80 miles one way every weekend have to go to Memphis and back as needed at a moments notice. I need the ability to go now. A plug in hybrid would allow me to keep moving and still use electric the majority of the time. Volvo has one that interests me.