Lou's Full-Serve this time. City's gonna have nothing left before too much longer.
Another Jackson restaurant closing
- Thread starter patdog
- Start date
That’s not just a Jackson problem. There’s a lot of restaurants closing up in general. Just can’t make it pencil out.
I'm sure if it wasn't for the hospitals that whole area would collapse
how am I supposed to do that when all of my money is tied up in the NIL???***
Apparently, their Ridgeland location was a trial balloon that worked so they are doubling down on that.
A question that I would consider in foodservice anywhere: Can I sustain the model over time?
For as far back as I can remember, most lenders are suspect of loaning money to restaurant / food service ventures. The fundamentals are vulnerable to uncontrollable circumstances for a highly (and quickly) perishable inventory.
I have tried 4 of their sandwiches and let me say, top tier, all 4. I plan to work my way through the entire menu eventually.
The country is way oversaturated with restaurants, including central MS. They keep building more, but we don't have enough population with money to support them all.
I just don't understand. The economy is supposed be in bad shape and folks aren't making a "livable wage," but people are spending money like a sailor on shore leave.
I just don't understand. The economy is supposed be in bad shape and folks aren't making a "livable wage," but people are spending money like a sailor on shore leave.
The biggest problem with restaurants not being able to turn a profit is they are usually started by people who know how to run a kitchen, not necessarily how to run a business.
Trying to stay open 7 days a week or until 10 pm is a fools errand for most restaurants. I know chefs that will shoehorn something into the menu they know won't pencil out, but they can't help but to show off.
Chefs and plumbers rarely make good business owners. The ones that are good at both are usually very successful though.
I think an underrated challenge is how many people are willing to run a restaurant with virtually no path to good returns. I have a friend that I'm pretty sure is making a pittance running a restaurant. If it weren't for a spouse with a decent income, I think they would realize it's crazy and shut it down, but instead they've been keeping it going for almost a decade.
I don't know what it is about owning/running a restaurant that sounds cool, but I've known several successful business people that open up a restaurant after being successful in a different business. Some of them shut down, some of them stay open, and for the ones that stay open, I've always wondered whether they're actually carrying their own weight or are just an expensive hobby that the other businesses support. I also have known several doctors and lawyers that invest in restaurants or bars. The bars I sort of get for lawyers; chances are good they're alcoholics anyway and that's basically vertical integration for them. But what in the hell would make people look at the restaurant/bar business and think I'm going to be a passive investor in a non-chain business?
ETA: This doesn't apply to bars in party areas and restaurant/bars in tourist areas. Not because they're necessarily different; just because I need some sort of plausible sounding caveat that makes it seem less like I'm directly insulting PooPops.
you could double up by taking the whole football team to a Jackson restaurant.
It's happening more in certain geographic locations because people aren't going there to spend money. Yes more restaurants are closing because people just aren't spending the money, but most good restaurants in good locations aren't closing. Didn't Fenians just close to
That's right there? Is the pizza place still open there too?
the restaurants like manship and Keifers survive because of hospitals they are also closer. Being down the hill hurts. How is that brewery doing in that area?
Great points here. I’m sure it’s probably easier to keep employees when you’re open for more hours per week, but there is zero point in being open 7 days. (I think this is the main reason why small bbq operations that are open like 1.5-2.5 days/week are so successful. Do a few things VERY WELL and hang your hat on that. No need to spread yourself thin.) I’ve always said if I could make anything close to what I make now, I’d work as a line cook. Worked at the Veranda in college and it was easily the most fun job I’ve ever had. Hours sucked, but everything else about it was so much fun. It’s just hard to make money in that industry.
Can anybody let me know the status of the Krystal on Ellis Avenue?
I'm currently reading a book called Unreasonable Hospitality. It is mostly about the restaurant business but is more about how to deliver to people more than they ask for. The concept of restaurant smart vs corporate smart is mentioned in the book and why you need to be both to be successful.
Enzo's in Ridgeland recently closed. It's not just a Jackson problem although the reasons some of these Jackson restaurants are closing may be tied directly to the incompetencies and hassle of dealing with Jackson (water issues, crime, etc.)
To be fair, the reviews I read on Enzo were WILDLY inconsistent. I never ate there, so I can’t speak from experience, but it seemed like folks were just as likely to get a good meal/service as they were bad on any given day. Could be more of a staffing issue…. Idk. But I was very surprise to see a RSJ restaurant not do well in the Metro area.
I never ate there either but as you said if I asked five people about it I would get five different answers.
The no path to good returns is a loaded statement. It goes back to my idea that running a restaurant is different than running a business. You have to be able to do both.
It depends on the model, but you should be able to pull 8-10% of profit off a restaurant if you run it well. That said, I could possibly MAKE more income working as a W2 employee somewhere... But income is only one aspect.
In the last 15 months I busted my àss and made a lot of sacrifices to take an existing business that was doing well and take it to the next level. We spent a lot of money updating the brand, remodeling the building, and most importantly improving the systems/processes. I learned a lot along the way (particularly about the type of people that work in restaurants) but, what I brought to the table was an understanding of how to run a restaurant like an actual business.
Simple cash flow from my bank account will show that we are plus $50k over the last 6 months. Cash flow dropped a little in April, May, and June because of about $15-20k in one time remodel and equipment purchase expenses plus it's our slowest time of the year. At our current run rate we might hit $120-150k in profit next year on the business alone.
But unlike a W2 job, my restaurant is also paying off prime commercial real estate I can sell one day. I can also sell the business for roughly 25% of revenue down the road. It also provides really nice tax write offs. So I could possibly make more gross income working a W2 job, but when I quit/retire/get fired, there is not a big payout. Maybe a watch or a plaque if you are lucky.
But that said, starting/buying a restaurant is not the best way to "make a living" for most people. The attraction to me was the fact we are a tourist area with 9 solid months of visitors, but even during our shoulder seasons we get tons of local business. On Friday and Saturday nights in the summer and winter we effectively have to turn people away at around 6 pm as we are sold out for the night.
The key to restaurants is elasticity. You need to be able to get big (6 pm on a Friday in July) or very small (2:30 pm on a Tuesday in April) yet maintain profitablity. The key for me is my high school kids. They only work 4-8 pm. They give me the surge staffing when we need it with minimal hours requirements.
All this is with a caveat. I looked at a dozen or more restaurants over a 3 year period before I bought one. Most were absolute money pits. I saw one (a cute little café in town) that did 1/3rd of the revenue of my pizza joint, made virtually zero profit and still sold for 30% more than I paid for my business. The new owners are struggling mightily right now. But they just thought it was cute and they could make it better. I won't be surprised if they don't make it through the winter.
While I am ranting...
I don't want a business that touches coffee unless it's a 200 square foot drive through. Wine isn't much better. Coffee and wine drinkers drop $5-10 per glass and sip forever, just sitting there being ássholes without even knowing it, wasting a seat for hours sometimes. Two ladies will come into my pub for dinner sit at a table for 4, split a salad and sip on glass of wine for 1-1/2 hours and leave my staff a $3 tip on a $30 check... A group of 4 construction workers will come in order 2-3 pizzas, wings, and pound a 8-10 beers in 45 minutes and leave my staff a $25 tip on a $100+ check.
You want a takeout business. Dine in is expensive. You need extra staff, furniture, and real estate. To go is where the money is made. Luckily my business is 75% takeout. Id lose all my profits if I had to try to convert all that to dine in.
I haven’t been able to get past the Q-Pine. Dang good sandwich and even though I want to try something else I keep going back to that one.
Enzo Osteria is closing too, but it’s in Ridgeland. It’s a Robert St. John restaurant and the people I know that tried it, (several times), said the food just wasn’t very good and very inconsistent. I heard they used pre-breaded junk from Sysco. People just won’t pay todays prices for cheap ingredients.
Never ate there but from what I’ve heard, Robert St John got lazy & didn’t put the effort or support into Enzo he did with his Hattiesburg restaurants. I agree. People will still pay for good food. And they’ll pay for cheap food. But if you’re not one or the other, you’re going to struggle.
I’m not a huge fan of Lou’s sandwich shop. I love Lou’s Full Serv and am glad that’s what is taking over the sandwich shop.
I have to agree on the sandwich shop-I'm just not that impressed. Now, if we are talking about Lou's Full Serve I am all in! Lunches were pretty special but the menu at night was smallish but amazing.
Re-reading the story about Lou's closing was interesting. No one said that the restaurant was having income problems (but most assumed that right off the bat). More to the point, Crime might be the driver. There were many unreported and under reported incidents there - including robberies. When that happens a few times its time to head out for self preservation. Its a Jackson thing.
It started with District Donuts about a year back (place was a little odd anyway). Apparently there’s plans to turn it into a modern rendition of the ole Cherokee Lounge?
Lou’s and Fenians, gone. Idk if Pizza Shack will close that location or not, isn’t that the original?
Below is a good Michael Keaton movie about McDonalds that hit on a lot of what you said. Restaurants are a low margin, high effort business, but will always have a market (people gotta eat). Real Estate is where they have most value. This movie hits on that. Also, you mention take out business. If you have a sit down dining restaurant, you definitely need high table turn to make profit. That becomes more difficult with this WIFI age. You need to offer WIFI to draw in more customers, but don't want them to squat. In the movie it shows the original McDonalds as a walk up food stand which is what fast food used to be (like Dairy Queen).
Not exactly what you were talking about, but I suspect you are going to see fewer and fewer fast food restaurants offer dine-in. It's a lot of space that I assume covers a relatively small portion of its business at most locations. Several fast food chains in our area went drive-thru only for well beyond the point that anybody was worried about Covid. I don't know, but I strongly suspect the franchisees were forced to reopen the dining room by their franchisor.
This is Robert St. John's explanation of what went wrong. Obviously his spin, but I can completely believe that he was surprised by just how bad the labor market was. But I've never been enthralled with any of his restaurants I've eaten at. Certainly solid for the most part, but nothing has struck me as great.
Friends On the Level and Restaurants Off the Track
Everyone has “that” friend. He or she is the friend that doesn’t sugarcoat his or her comments. It’s a straight-talking friend who will tell you exactly what he or she thinks.
robertstjohn.com
The people working at Enzo on Labor Day were looking ROUGH. Like halfway house rough.This is Robert St. John's explanation of what went wrong. Obviously his spin, but I can completely believe that he was surprised by just how bad the labor market was. But I've never been enthralled with any of his restaurants I've eaten at. Certainly solid for the most part, but nothing has struck me as great.
Friends On the Level and Restaurants Off the Track
Everyone has “that” friend. He or she is the friend that doesn’t sugarcoat his or her comments. It’s a straight-talking friend who will tell you exactly what he or she thinks.
Interesting that he makes it sound like just as they got things turned around, they closed. Sounds like a classic case of someone knowing his market really well, but when he tries to expand into a new market 100 miles away, he just isn't able to keep as close an eye on things as he could when all his restaurants were in one market and just never got things under control. He's definite right about the first big mistake. You don't close one restaurant one night and open a new one the next night. He should have had a 1-2 week turnaround period, during which he identified key staff from the old restaurant to keep, and been a lot more prepared for the opening of his restaurant.This is Robert St. John's explanation of what went wrong. Obviously his spin, but I can completely believe that he was surprised by just how bad the labor market was. But I've never been enthralled with any of his restaurants I've eaten at. Certainly solid for the most part, but nothing has struck me as great.
Friends On the Level and Restaurants Off the Track
Everyone has “that” friend. He or she is the friend that doesn’t sugarcoat his or her comments. It’s a straight-talking friend who will tell you exactly what he or she thinks.
That article is over a year old. I think that was part of his attempt to get people to try Enzo's again after it not being good when it started.
I'm guessing it wasn't really turned around and that whatever progress it had made at that point wasn't enough. Or maybe it really was "fixed" but then he lost a key employee or two and it went back to having issues again.
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