Another school finds standardized tests
- Thread starter GrimReaper
- Start date
Thanks man. I was blindsided in the last Barry post that standardized testing was not being used in some universities, so i'm really interested in reading this.
Thank you, Dean of Admisions of...........sorry, i forgot for which school you oversaw admissions.
You can cue this up to the 34 minute, 50 second mark:
Committee on Academic Affairs, Research and Student Life Meeting - Penn State MediaSpace (kaltura.com)
Committee on Academic Affairs, Research and Student Life Meeting - Penn State MediaSpace (kaltura.com)
Many schools stopped requiring standardized tests in response to the impact of COVID on student preparation and others did it as a change in their approach to admissions. Some indicated that it was a temporary change that they would revisit when applicants had gone through a normal high school cycle without disruptions or mandatory remote learning.
It's fair to point out that the application process is much more complex than I remember it being in 1980. Whereas my son, a college freshman, had to fill out a lengthy common application that allowed him to include detailed information on his extracurricular activities, community activities, and part time employment, I don't remember any school application I filled out giving me much opportunity to do that, at least in any detail. PSU wasn't much interested in anything beyond my SAT score and GPA, and I doubt any other information I had the opportunity to provide was given any significant consideration in my acceptance.
FWIW, I think the standardized tests are an excellent tool that should be used in the admissions process, but I am also glad that technology allows the schools to process information beyond test scores and GPA and factor that information into admissions decisions.
And what is generally the strongest predictor of success on the SAT and standardized tests?
Hint:
Yeah I agree that standardized tests should be ONE OF the tools for admission decision. I just had never had to deal with it, as I had never taken the SATs because my sound engineering program didn't require them, then 10 years into my professional carer I went to an online school using my GI bill. And the idea that standardized tests in some instances aren't even A tool, blows my mind. My experience with standardized tests is the ASVAB....
This is true and don't think that Admissions Departments don't know it. That's why schools like Dartmouth don't view them as comparable from applicant to applicant, but rather in the context of each applicant's circumstances.And what is generally the strongest predictor of success on the SAT and standardized tests?
Hint:
True, but as more and more school systems, offer free in school PSAT tests as sophomores and SATs as juniors it is not as big of a reason today.And what is generally the strongest predictor of success on the SAT and standardized tests?
Hint:
Get what you're saying, but the relative quality of the school systems continues as a factor.
True, but the school systems that pay the most per kid are some of the ones with the worst scores. Bad schools in Baltimore have so many more teachers and resources than the low to middle class rural kids. Its all about work ethic.
I grew up in a very small school district in PA, under 200 kids in the HS and most were farm kids or the kid of a steel mill worker. Our average SAT score my junior and senior years of HS was top 5% in the state, ahead of big time $ schools like Fox Chapel, Mt Lebo, etc. Our school was run down then and no one took SAT prep courses, we just tried hard and learned what we were supposed to learn.
Today school systems give 50% to the kids for showing up and allow redo's for every assignment. If we didnt do something we got a 0 and failed if we didnt learn the material. The kids who used to fail, now get C's, the kids who did nothing now get D's If the principal called home on us, we were worried about sleeping inside or not eating that night, now principals always side with the kids. Money really has very little to do with whats going on at this point.
Interesting. My line of thought was that schools located in higher income suburbs such as the two you mention have a funding advantage due to the higher property tax base. Yep, you are correct in regard to grade inflation, etc. I'd be interested to know what school district you attended. Quite an accomplishment.
Money does matter. It’s the best predictor of success on the SAT. I don’t envy teachers. As I said in my original post, my nieces go to the top schools in the Bucks Co. area. Live in an affluent community. Their mother, however, teaches in probably the worst schools in the district. She has been threatened, many kids have ankle monitors on them, and they haven’t had raises in years. Her schools get tons of money but it’s wasted on most students. The ones who manage to make it out and succeed seems to be few and far between.
Not in NJ. State funding of poorer districts (and caps on property tax and school budget increases) often results in higher per capita expenditures. Money. for the most part, might as well be pissed away.
Grade inflation in most high schools have gotten so out of hand that "GPAs" have essentially become meaningless as an informative tool (schools that can take a more robust look through the overall transcript can still find value there).
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Money isn’t the biggest predictor, they say that all the time based off of the ZIP Codes, but in reality, it’s the people in the school systems who make the rules that’s the biggest predictor. Your kid just has to be in a school where admin doesn’t allow the bottom 5% of kids to ruin the bottom 50% of kids.
I used to work in a title one school that tried to put the IB program into the school to make it look better. it helped initially, but the families in the nearby communities that could transfer in realized that as long as the hoodlums were allowed to run free and it didn’t matter what kind of curriculum their kids were doing.
About four years later, that same school brought in a new principal, who set the tone from day one and said, if you’re tardy more than three times or caught out in the hallway without a pass, you’re suspended. His suspension rates went through the roof, but thankfully, he had the backing of everyone else in the community whose kids weren’t trouble makers. In the four years he was there the school made great strides in test scores but then he got a job at Central office and the woman they brought into replace him was straight garbage.
MIT reports on the value of standardized testing-
news.mit.edu
Q&A: Stuart Schmill on MIT’s decision to reinstate the SAT/ACT requirement
MIT Admissions announced that it will reinstate its requirement that applicants submit scores from an SAT or ACT exam. The office’s research shows the standardized tests are an important factor in assessing the academic preparation of applicants from all backgrounds, says Dean of Admissions and...
news.mit.edu
It's about the parents. Good parents = good students most of the time. Bad parents = bad students most of the time.
Public school GPA's are meaningless as a standalone number without considering the classes taken and the scores of the final exams. It's not just high schools, but colleges are included. When I went to Penn State you needed about a 3.1 to get into Tau Beta Pi, the Engineering Honor Society, which was offered to those in the top 10% of the College of Engineering. Today you'd need to be above a 3.8 GPA to be offered. My roommate was a Finance major and he graduated with a 2.18 GPA. Today you need a 3.6 GPA after Sophomore year to be admitted in to the Finance Major.
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Very good points.
Not only have Universities engaged in massive grade inflation (We could talk about the "whys", and there are several, and most track back to $). And I could share some personal anecdotes that would stun most people). Also, since 'COVID", the grade inflation was gigged up with steroids.
Many universities saw average GPAs increase by a full 0.50 points, immediately after COVID, a time during which (with on line courses and what not) the actual academic achievement went south.
Seeing average GPAs at elites (Ivies and what not) in the 3.7-3.8 range? One can more or less make an argument to justify (premise being all those kids were highly qualified). Seeing massive grade inflation throughout Higher Ed? That is a horse of a very different color (that color being, primarily, green)
MIT reports on the value of standardized testing-
Q&A: Stuart Schmill on MIT’s decision to reinstate the SAT/ACT requirement
MIT Admissions announced that it will reinstate its requirement that applicants submit scores from an SAT or ACT exam. The office’s research shows the standardized tests are an important factor in assessing the academic preparation of applicants from all backgrounds, says Dean of Admissions and...
Penn State laughs at MIT.
You might have both admissions selection and college preparedness issues when you have 100 out of 700 second year engineering students call out sick for an exam this week . Apparently “dynamics” forces moving bodies outside of the system.
Somewhat on topic but people with High School Seniors question - my Daughter has been accepted into the Kinesiology Program at PSU Main - she want's to be a PT but she has friends that applied to PSU with a specific major like Business (Smeal) and got rejected for Main Campus so they reapplied as Undecided for a major and were accepted - seems strange. I guess the risk is that even if you get to Main you might not be able to get into your chosen major after you get there.
I don't have any current information, but at one time they tried to get a broad range of majors for incoming freshman at UP. Since engineering and business were the most popular majors, the quotas filled up earlier in the process than other majors. This still happens to some degree with Virginia state schools, in the absence of branch campuses, it results in being wait listed or outright rejected.
Changing majors is somewhat simple but you need to know the rules for getting into the college/major you want as early as possible. I'll give one example. Smeal only accepts transfers from DUS (Division of Undergraduate Studies) which is undecided, before your 3rd year, and you have to be in DUS for a semester before transferring into Smeal. This means that you need to transfer your 1st semester Sophomore year or you aren't getting in. Further, you need to have had several (I didn't look them up) required Introductory classes and they can be hard to get, before Junior year. This typically means you'll have to attend a summer to pick them up.
Changing into most other majors is no big deal, but as. you can see from the above example some are a big deal.
Thanks - I just thought the process seemed strange - can't get into UP with a major selected but can if you went in DUS.
This must be new; I transferred from Communications to Smeal before my third year in the 90’s. The other trick for branch campus kids who wanted to get to UP was to pick a major that the branch campus couldn’t accommodate - like ‘Film Study.’
Blue Band was another way to get into UP when a student would have otherwise attended a branch campus. I knew several students who were first admitted to a branch campus but were able to transfer to UP for their freshman year because they joined the Blue Band. To their credit, they all were serious about Blue Band.
I know kids can start in the summer to get into UP that otherwise they wouldn't.
An interesting article from the same area code.
slate.com
I Don’t Know Why Everyone’s in Denial About College Students Who Can’t Do the Reading
These kids aren’t lazy. We’re failing them.
An interesting article from the same area code.
I Don’t Know Why Everyone’s in Denial About College Students Who Can’t Do the Reading
These kids aren’t lazy. We’re failing them.
The rise and promotion of anti-intellectualism in America is shocking and depressing.