Any thoughts about being ranked 157?
- Thread starter rumsearch
- Start date
poll or fall within the top tier of the SEC due to lack of resources and admission standards driven by the Ayers case. With that said I think State and Ole Miss are both very good universites and get ranked pretty highly when you look at bang for the buck. Both schools have a good track record of producing good productive citizens that contribute to society and love their respective schools. Thats about all I have to say about the 17ing survey.
Instead of bragging about how many "students" we have this needs to be addressed and fast. This crap lessens the value of a degree from MSU and over the long haul will hurt the university badly.
coach66 said:
Due to the powers-that-be in MS, the state will always be the last in the good categories due to forcing everyone to be dumbed-down to the lowest denominator. When the schools can allot for quality students, then we'll see an increase. TN is having to up their standards in public schools because of the HOPE scholarships et al, just like every other state with such a thing. MS is afraid of upping standards because that's somehow "racist". Never will understand how asking for standards is racist.
I have several friends who are state graduates with kids that are approaching college age. At least 1/2 of these folks are pushing their kids to go out of state. And they are pointing to "reputation" as one of the primary factors. Admittedly these are people whose kids are on a graduate degree track.
I try to tell them that state offers degree programs that are very well respected despite the overall university reputation, but they aren't buying it.
Personally, I think they're idiots. But it shows these biased, stupid rankings do have some effect.
I try to tell them that state offers degree programs that are very well respected despite the overall university reputation, but they aren't buying it.
Personally, I think they're idiots. But it shows these biased, stupid rankings do have some effect.
I have had countless classes with other "students" who could barely read. And I mean that. I've lost count of the number of times I have heard a preface referred to as a "pre-face." In almost every instance, the student was a from a public school and wasn't paying a dime to attend State. I had class with one genius who graduated from Greenville-Weston who told the teacher: "At my high school, if you were a good kid and came to class, the teachers would give you good grades." The teacher just shook her head.
This may rub some people the wrong way, but if you can't make above a 18-20 on the ACT, I'm not sure you have any business attending State or Ole Miss directly out of high school. It seems to me that the students who are going to college for free are often the ones who have the least business being in college. And I'm not a racist, so don't try and label me one.
I agree with thatsbaseball. Increasing our enrollment is great, but we are adding a lot of ****** students in order to do so.
This may rub some people the wrong way, but if you can't make above a 18-20 on the ACT, I'm not sure you have any business attending State or Ole Miss directly out of high school. It seems to me that the students who are going to college for free are often the ones who have the least business being in college. And I'm not a racist, so don't try and label me one.
I agree with thatsbaseball. Increasing our enrollment is great, but we are adding a lot of ****** students in order to do so.
go to college. College is not for everyone. However, in today's society, college is a prerequisite to success. It did not use to be that way and society has created that problem. We need blue collar skilled guys. We need plumbers, electricians, factory guys. Believe it or not, there are manufacturing jobs available but there are no skilled, blue collar workers to fill them. These skills could be learned at a trade school or through the old fashioned way, an apprentice.
If you are deserving, you will go to college no matter financial/racial background. We have fixed that problem. Now, we have a problem where too many people go to college. We dumb down the curriculum so that idiots can pass. The ones who can be successful don't get the education they deserve. Result: Too many college graduates with loans to pay, that they shouldn't have been given in the first place. Students won't accept blue collar jobs because they think they are above them. In reality, they don't have the skills to do anything because they have wasted 4+ years learning nothing.
Plus, compared to many other modernized nations our bright students aren't as prepared as they could be.
Mini rant...Rant over.
If you are deserving, you will go to college no matter financial/racial background. We have fixed that problem. Now, we have a problem where too many people go to college. We dumb down the curriculum so that idiots can pass. The ones who can be successful don't get the education they deserve. Result: Too many college graduates with loans to pay, that they shouldn't have been given in the first place. Students won't accept blue collar jobs because they think they are above them. In reality, they don't have the skills to do anything because they have wasted 4+ years learning nothing.
Plus, compared to many other modernized nations our bright students aren't as prepared as they could be.
Mini rant...Rant over.
You can rationalize it all you want, but how are you going to attract kids with great GPAs and test scores to look at State? Mississippi State Ice Cream?
I've heard story after story about kids who love their tours, gamedays, etc. but parents send them somewhere else because of this ranking.
We've got to get out from under this Ayres ruling and get Phi Beta Kappa on campus.</p>
I've heard story after story about kids who love their tours, gamedays, etc. but parents send them somewhere else because of this ranking.
We've got to get out from under this Ayres ruling and get Phi Beta Kappa on campus.</p>
There have been a lot of reports published in the last couple of years that prove a college education isn't worth nearly as much as it once was. Supposedly going to grad school in many programs has become a terrible idea. It is a huge waste of money.
You're right. This whole notion that everyone deserves to go to college is complete crap. Like you said, if you are meant to go, you will be able to go. The government wastes an incredible amount of money paying for students to attend college when a lot of them have no business being there in the first place. And a ton of students get themselves into serious debt while earning a degree that isn't worth that much.
You're right. This whole notion that everyone deserves to go to college is complete crap. Like you said, if you are meant to go, you will be able to go. The government wastes an incredible amount of money paying for students to attend college when a lot of them have no business being there in the first place. And a ton of students get themselves into serious debt while earning a degree that isn't worth that much.
USNews has an incredibly flawed system for how they rank schools. It has nothing to do with the quality of education, and it has more to do with how selective the school is on incoming freshmen. Clemson is high up on the list and they take pride in it. How did they get there? They have a high ACT requirement and if you don't make the cut, you go to Tri-County Tech for a year (which is in Clemson), and you get admitted automatically. So they allow in all the scrubs after a year, but these students' admittance isn't calculated into the ranking system. Clemson just found out what the game was, and they're playing ball.
but we're in the best football conference. Isn't that what matters most? SEC probably has more 4 and 5 star recruits. Don't our coaches get paid the most? Where's that ranking from U.S. News.
Kind of sad but those are also some ******** rankings. +@!$ if I'd waste around to 200 grand on an undergraduate degree from Tulane.
Kind of sad but those are also some ******** rankings. +@!$ if I'd waste around to 200 grand on an undergraduate degree from Tulane.
US News doesn't reflect with much accuracy on the actual quality of the school; more like how it looks on paper. Not like it matters to the important people though.
Here's another lesser known ranking service that, in my opinion, is a little more objective. It's not very well known, but it seems pretty legit based on the explanation of its system.
http://www.stateuniversit...state/score_rank/MS.html
Here's another lesser known ranking service that, in my opinion, is a little more objective. It's not very well known, but it seems pretty legit based on the explanation of its system.
http://www.stateuniversit...state/score_rank/MS.html
You get to cheer with Bully. New admin is doing good things -- I hope working on our perception will be near top of the list. Regardless of whether the survey is fair or not, it carries weight with prospective high potential students (as referenced by Schmuly) and can lessen the value of my/our degree(s). An earlier poster pointed out that Clemson has figured out the system and works it to move up the rankings and our admin should do whatever in their power, like upgrading our selling points in media materials, to improve our image.
African American enrollment increased from 12 to 20% in the past year.<div>
</div><div>That seems like an awfully large statistical jump.</div><div>
</div><div>(http://www.msstate.edu/web/media/detail.php?id=5337)</div>
</div><div>That seems like an awfully large statistical jump.</div><div>
</div><div>(http://www.msstate.edu/web/media/detail.php?id=5337)</div>
my three caucasian sons. Every MSU commercial during games or mailers that we receive looks like we are a SWAC school. Just a fact that we are obvioiusly only going for numbers of students, rather than pushing the programs on campus that will attract top scoring students. I've got news for the administration, many MSU alums live in areas where the demographics are quite different than MS. There will come a point when many out of state alums (including me)will stop donating a lot of money to MSU if they believe their kids are not going to want to go there. There are just too many out of state schools with better academic reputations. The administration needs to do something about these rankings ASAP. I am reminded regularly that MSU's entrance requirements are about like a community college here in TX. If you don't think these rankings affect us alums that are out trying to get jobs with major companies, you are crazy. We are competing with every school on that list, and I can tell you that top recruiters take notice.
that many Texas fans do not want to be associated with the SEC. Call it arrogance, or whatever...but only the top 10% of HS graduating classesin Texas are guaranteed admissions to Texas and Texas A&M, and I hear that Texas is about to change to top 5%. The overwhelming number of applicants dictate the culling of a large number of students. Texas believes (and rightly so, based on these rankings, that they have more in common academically with Pac 12 and Big 10). And no, I am not a TU fan.
with my MSU degree, and mind you that they are an AAU school, one of the top 60 institutions in the nation, and highly selective, all they said was here is your free ride to Aggieland. These reports are BS and only affect small minded people who can't do any basic research into a school's program. My coursework was no harder or more indepth at A&M than it was at MSU. It is a known fact that land grant schools are downgraded in US News and World Report ratings. As Nebraska's Chancellor said when they were removed from the AAU schools, " We are punished by not having a medical school and being a land grant school". The people who do these ratings are from liberal arts programs and if you are not Ivy League with a med school, you are going down the list. I would not hesitate to put my degree up against anyone's in the country. Actually I did and was admitted to Texas A & M, LSU, University of Illinois, University of Tennessee, and others. We can compete with the best of them.
25% of the score is based on surveys. Not good surveys, either.
25% of the score is based on retention rate. Because having 83% of freshmen return f</a>or their sophomore year clearly makes MSU a terrible university (we are ranked somewhere between 100 and 150 in this category).
But we should have that one shining category. R&D, baby, R&D! I'm sure many see research (in itself, at least) as a secondary function of universities, but by damn it's important if you ask me. Possibly, the single most important factor in the college education of a future scientist (and maybe a future engineer, as well - I wouldn't know) is undergrad involvement in research. It's also a relative strength of MSU, and guess how much weight USN&WR puts on this category. A fraction of 10%.
Read more about why USN&WR rankings are arbitrary meaningless <a title="methodology" href="http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/09/12/how-us-news-calculates-the-college-rankings-2012">here, courtesy of USN&WR.
And who'd they survey? 4500 "academics" at a 43% response rate, including close to 2000 public high school counselors.
25% of the score is based on retention rate. Because having 83% of freshmen return f</a>or their sophomore year clearly makes MSU a terrible university (we are ranked somewhere between 100 and 150 in this category).
But we should have that one shining category. R&D, baby, R&D! I'm sure many see research (in itself, at least) as a secondary function of universities, but by damn it's important if you ask me. Possibly, the single most important factor in the college education of a future scientist (and maybe a future engineer, as well - I wouldn't know) is undergrad involvement in research. It's also a relative strength of MSU, and guess how much weight USN&WR puts on this category. A fraction of 10%.
Read more about why USN&WR rankings are arbitrary meaningless <a title="methodology" href="http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/09/12/how-us-news-calculates-the-college-rankings-2012">here, courtesy of USN&WR.
..."<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">I would not hesitate to put my degree up against anyone's in the country."</span>
I couldn't afford to pay out of state tuition even if I had wanted to go to a 'better' school. It was junior college for 2 years and then MSU after that. Of course I wanted the ice cream and cheese anyway. 
It is a disguised form of affirmative action, where the universities are forced to take the top 10% of the inner city or poor performing high schools as well. Kids that go to an elite high school are actually punished if they fail to fall in the top 10% of their class, even if they have a higher SAT score, because there is no room. In those cases, they go the UT/San Antonio or Texas A&M/Galveston, and wait for the openings in the main campus for their sophomore year. It's so bad I've seen families actually move their children out of good high schools and into poor performing high schools so they can get their children into Texas or Texas A&M main campus.
The percentages are based on the numbers of students. You are applying the percent increase to the percent enrollment, which is not what they mean. An 8% increase in African American enrollment means that we went from around 4000 students (~20% of total) to around 4300 students (still ~20% of total, but ~8% higher than 4000).
Hope that makes sense.
Hope that makes sense.
We really need to stop looking at everything from the racial perspective. Mississippi has greatness in it, but these racial battles are doing nothing positive for our kids. In fact, our kids are the victims of the old battles that we won't stop fighting. If educated people won't lead the way, then it's a pretty hopeless situation.
Mostly for having to deal with our alumni base.
Folks, we've already been down the "academic excellence" path. Remember Malcolm Portera? He was all about using our JuCo system to push students' entrance into State back to their junior year. Did we suddenly become a rankings powerhouse? Heck no. What we did was kill all momentum from the Zacharias era and let UM catch us in size. The only rankings we seriously improved were ones hardly any students or their parents cared about.
We're just now starting to really recover from all the damage he did.
And I really question just how much better the students were that we were getting in. In 2002, the average ACT score for entering freshman was 23.8. In 2011, it was 23.6.
My masters is from a top 20 business school. I've seen the difference between State and the top tier, and it's not that dramatic. There is one, but it mostlyboils down to money and little else.
Meanwhile, we're stuck with the Ayers case ruling. It's not going away. If you want Mississippi State to improve in rankings, the best thing you can do is showpotential students and their parentshow little the rankings matter. Get them on campus. Talk our school up. Focus on specific disciplines if you have to. Get more students in. Get better students in. We need alumni, and lots of them. At some point we'll hit a critical mass of dedicated alums wheremuch more money will begin to flow in than is necessary to support the student body. THEN we can startfocusing on rankings.
Folks, we've already been down the "academic excellence" path. Remember Malcolm Portera? He was all about using our JuCo system to push students' entrance into State back to their junior year. Did we suddenly become a rankings powerhouse? Heck no. What we did was kill all momentum from the Zacharias era and let UM catch us in size. The only rankings we seriously improved were ones hardly any students or their parents cared about.
We're just now starting to really recover from all the damage he did.
And I really question just how much better the students were that we were getting in. In 2002, the average ACT score for entering freshman was 23.8. In 2011, it was 23.6.
My masters is from a top 20 business school. I've seen the difference between State and the top tier, and it's not that dramatic. There is one, but it mostlyboils down to money and little else.
Meanwhile, we're stuck with the Ayers case ruling. It's not going away. If you want Mississippi State to improve in rankings, the best thing you can do is showpotential students and their parentshow little the rankings matter. Get them on campus. Talk our school up. Focus on specific disciplines if you have to. Get more students in. Get better students in. We need alumni, and lots of them. At some point we'll hit a critical mass of dedicated alums wheremuch more money will begin to flow in than is necessary to support the student body. THEN we can startfocusing on rankings.
Im a junior right now at MSU and here is the breakdown of my class that I started school with.
In 09 - 2741 of us started school together
In 10 - 2508 people still in school, so lost around 200 in a year
In 11 -1219 over 1000 dropped out between there sophomore and junior year
Students dont stay in school here at MSU. Its that simple. If we wont more to stay in school then it needs to be harder to get into MSU.
Turn people away. When is the last time you heard of someone getting rejected by Mississippi State University...NEVER
In 09 - 2741 of us started school together
In 10 - 2508 people still in school, so lost around 200 in a year
In 11 -1219 over 1000 dropped out between there sophomore and junior year
Students dont stay in school here at MSU. Its that simple. If we wont more to stay in school then it needs to be harder to get into MSU.
Turn people away. When is the last time you heard of someone getting rejected by Mississippi State University...NEVER