Archer’s 2022 Men’s Basketball Hotboard 1.0 - 2/26
- Thread starter ArcherSPS
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If you are counting Davis and Jeffries as positives in recruiting then we have a difference of opinion. Brooks was a recruiting loss. We had him committed and couldn't get him to campus. Yes, it's been great to have him for one year, but four would have been better. I was encouraged to see Howland work the portal last year, but Watts and DJ have been massive disappointments. Moore has been decent, nothing more.
Why ArE yOU so WOke abOut tHIs???????
Why ArE yOU so WOke abOut tHIs???????
I dont know what woke has to do with this?...its just talking about recruiting.
Brooks coming in this year has been a recruiting win. We did not sign him and we have him- thats a win. I get the backstory.
Jeffries was a top50 recruit who has averaged 10ppg and 4.7rpg for his first 3 seasons of basketball- those arent disappointing stats. I have criticized his decision making(started a thread just last week), but he is still an impact player.
The issue is that I said Howland's recruiting is solid. You dont think so and only cited HS commits as proof. I disagree that only HS recruits should be considered. I think transfers are worth including since they also need to be recruited.
Regardless of how the recruits and transfers have played so far, they were viewed as wins at the time(mix of stars, production, play, etc).
We need better outside shooting for sure and Jeffries plays out of control at times, but that doesnt mean the recruiting isnt solid. It just means the staff hasnt landed the right talented pieces.
Molinar was viewed as a win in recruiting.
Tolu was viewed as a win in recruiting.
Brooks was viewed as a win in recruiting.
Jeffries was viewed as a win in recruiting.
Moore was viewed as a win in recruiting.
Watts was viewed as a win in recruiting.
Davis was not really talked about too much, but was predicted to be a solid backup. Its interesting that he played more and scored more per game as a feshman at Bama than at MSU.
Carter was viewed as a win in recruiting.
Elias King was viewed as a win in recruiting.
Isaac Stansbury was viewed as a win in recruiting...kidding.
This is who was seen as a win for MSU in the 19, 20, and 21 recruiting years. Regardless of how they have turned out up to now, they were viewed as recruits with solid potential and many were top 150 recruits. Recruiting has been solid, based on commonly accepted information for fans in the recruiting process.
My sarcasm on your agenda and wokeness is being lost. I'm poking fun at nearly every other conversation where posters accuse you of being woke for any opinion you might have no matter how benign it might be.
We have two issues here: how transfers are viewed and how the HS recruiting looks.
High school first. Massive failures the last three years. Molinar is our only SEC talent from that group. Garcia, Matthews, Fountain, Carter, Applewhite, etc.....those are dime a dozen, basically replacement level players or worse. They are our guys and I want them to perform well, but outside of Molinar none of them have much going for them. They play hard and defend and rebound well. I'll give them that. LOL at Elias King being a recruiting win. He can't get on the floor at MTSU. Devin Butts has finally found a team where he can contribute - in JUCO. The biggest win we had with those two was when they left. We got lucky that Perry and Woodard had family ties to State. The HS recruiting is a disaster. No other way to put it. Oh, I forgot Deivon Smith. Check out his numbers at Ga Tech. Terrible. I will admit I was sad to see him go because at the very least he's a real point guard. Still can't shoot a lick, but at least he's a point guard.
Then the transfers...you wasted a lot of digital ink there. Literally every player on every roster in America is a win in recruiting for the school who signed them. The real answer to the recruiting question is found in terms of player production. Like Tolu. If you watch DJ Jeffries play and think that he is a recruiting win, then maybe find another hobby because basketball ain't for you. Garcia and Matthews should be getting more of his minutes not because they do so many things well, but because they do fewer stupid things than DJ. Brooks is about what I thought he would be for the one year we have him. You wonder why Davis ended up in Starkville? Because Oats got a look at him and knew he couldn't play. He's terrible. The only people predicting him to be a solid backup were Ben Howland and you and I'm not sure Howland even thought he was any good but he knew he needed another body. There's not another team in the league where Davis would be in the rotation. OK maybe Georgia. Howland at least found guys in the portal who could eat up minutes like Moore and Watts.
Put it all together and we have more talent than Rick Ray had to work with but less than most Stansbury years. And I shudder to think what next year will look like without Brooks and Molinar, plus the inevitable 2 or 3 or 6 other defections. Can only hope the portal provides some immediate infusion of talent.
We have two issues here: how transfers are viewed and how the HS recruiting looks.
High school first. Massive failures the last three years. Molinar is our only SEC talent from that group. Garcia, Matthews, Fountain, Carter, Applewhite, etc.....those are dime a dozen, basically replacement level players or worse. They are our guys and I want them to perform well, but outside of Molinar none of them have much going for them. They play hard and defend and rebound well. I'll give them that. LOL at Elias King being a recruiting win. He can't get on the floor at MTSU. Devin Butts has finally found a team where he can contribute - in JUCO. The biggest win we had with those two was when they left. We got lucky that Perry and Woodard had family ties to State. The HS recruiting is a disaster. No other way to put it. Oh, I forgot Deivon Smith. Check out his numbers at Ga Tech. Terrible. I will admit I was sad to see him go because at the very least he's a real point guard. Still can't shoot a lick, but at least he's a point guard.
Then the transfers...you wasted a lot of digital ink there. Literally every player on every roster in America is a win in recruiting for the school who signed them. The real answer to the recruiting question is found in terms of player production. Like Tolu. If you watch DJ Jeffries play and think that he is a recruiting win, then maybe find another hobby because basketball ain't for you. Garcia and Matthews should be getting more of his minutes not because they do so many things well, but because they do fewer stupid things than DJ. Brooks is about what I thought he would be for the one year we have him. You wonder why Davis ended up in Starkville? Because Oats got a look at him and knew he couldn't play. He's terrible. The only people predicting him to be a solid backup were Ben Howland and you and I'm not sure Howland even thought he was any good but he knew he needed another body. There's not another team in the league where Davis would be in the rotation. OK maybe Georgia. Howland at least found guys in the portal who could eat up minutes like Moore and Watts.
Put it all together and we have more talent than Rick Ray had to work with but less than most Stansbury years. And I shudder to think what next year will look like without Brooks and Molinar, plus the inevitable 2 or 3 or 6 other defections. Can only hope the portal provides some immediate infusion of talent.
Haha, well thank you for the patience, I did laugh once the joke was spoonfed to me. It is such a commonly misapplied term on here that I honestly just figured it was another example of misuse.
I agree that HS recruiting has not been great the last few years. I do think you dont give him enough credit for landing the recent 3 legacy players. Iys like you think that is easy. Sure there is an in to get the relationship started, but it hardly means they are a lock.
As for players not producing, as I mentioned earlier- their production now doesnt mean they werent good gets when signed. King was a good get at the time. Deivon Smith was a good get at the time. They didnt pan out for us and were maybe overrated, but again- based on recruiting info available at the time- they were good gets.
Jeffries playing less would be fine with me if Garcia got more PT. Matthews has enough PT as it is- I still cant get over how many 3s he jacked up a week ago in the closing moments...wt17.
I have clearly said that at the time of signings, these guys were viewed as good gets. You keep then arguing that they werent good gets because of current production. Those both can be true- they could be viewed well in the moment and then not viewed well later on. One doesnt mean the other isnt true.
I still think Grant McCasland needs to be on the list. Three straight conference championships (even if it is the CUSA). Texas ties, but spent some time in Ark, too. Can flat out coach, which I think people are starting to overlook. Stans and Howland were both tagged as recruiters, but that does not always translate. Need to be able to execute on the floor no matter who is on it to ultimately win. I cannot imagine him being at UNT much longer.
Taking second chances on coaches does not excite me. Rather have youth than damaged goods.
Taking second chances on coaches does not excite me. Rather have youth than damaged goods.
Won’t be Miller(unfortunately) Jans and his assistant have baggage that I would be willing to bet we won’t overlook..McMahon is my pick but he will be a hot name on a lot of teams list.
It was good on the left standard of college basketball but today it’s middle to low tier at best in the SEC
It was good on the old standard of college basketball but today it’s middle to low tier at best in the SEC
I was in that class
Didn’t he play the Tennessee fight song the Friday before the game in Knoxville too or did I make that up?
Didn’t he play the Tennessee fight song the Friday before the game in Knoxville too or did I make that up?
I remember when our best coach in 50 years left us after one season AND went to Murray State. Took Gary Hooker with him too. Coach Ron Greene. Dude knew how to recruit.
And yet some people think that the first thing a new coach needs to do is retain George Brooks.
Who thinks/says this? I havent read any comments on here like that.
...or are you saying someone in the program is saying that?
Molinar has improved.
Tolu has improved.
DJ improved.
Q improved.
Holman improved.
Perry improved.
Woodard improved.
Tyson Carter improved.
It is easy to dismiss this reality by saying 'they were bad at X even as a senior' or something dumb like that. Dont be dumb. Improvement can be seen in stats and also beyond stats. I only picked names that were in the top few in scoring too, so others who improved but their impact was still limited werent included.
I think the fact that we have literally no one becoming good NBA players is very telling. I mean Q is the closest we have to be a serviceable player in the NBA. I mean players want to make it to the league. What has recruits seen in recent years that would make them think Howland can develop them enough to get there?
It doesn't matter who this staff brings in. They absolutely suck at coaching up any of the players. When I watch our half court sets, it gives the appearance that they don't practice.
He was only here a year. Who did he recruit? The only freshmen on the team the following year were Kamphuis and Hood.
He had Ray White, Wiley Peck and Ricky Brown on his team in 77-78. So, hell, yeah, he came close to winning 20 games.
That was a fun year.
He had Ray White, Wiley Peck and Ricky Brown on his team in 77-78. So, hell, yeah, he came close to winning 20 games.
That was a fun year.
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